Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Yogi Questions

I do find using time points can be very helpful, but in specific circumstances, and then as a guide based on the raw bar chart and volume, and an interpretation of the pattern of trend.

Yogi isn’t displaying the logic behind what he is doing, and this obscures the value in what he is doing. It really is an art to combine straight technical analysis, wave structure (EW), with time cycle based approaches.

In simple terms, when using charts, what you are doing is using a geographical approach to analyse technical patterns and estimate probabilities of where counter trends will occur, for how long, and how deep.

Just think about it this way (using a bullish illustration for simplicity – just reverse this for a bearish picture) - you’re essentially looking for a “sweet spot” (like in tennis) where an underlying will pull back in an uptrend if trading long.

You know that most charts don’t move in a straight line, but zig zag up. Hence entries should be around a time and price “area” where you expect a continuation, and exits should be on strength as the underlying drives up into an area you expect resistance and a pull back (counter tend) to occur.

What time points are doing is just like using Fibonacci/Gann extensions and retracements of price ranges. Same kind of thing, but using time as a measure of where support/resistance is likely to occur. Then just as there can be harmonics in price, you can use time the same way.

Of course the art is to know when to use these, and how. It is also important to know how to validate these cycles just like in EW it is critical to know when these are validated or not.

It is important to note thought that it is the pattern of trend that is paramount. The analysis, just like EW should be a bolt on, and not the primary driver.

Here’s a big hint – most of any of these schools is usually only applicable for a minority (say 30% at a guess) or the time, and then only with certain patterns. Otherwise just straight charting on its own is often good enough to trade from (so again charting ability is the foundation, and not the other way).

Where Yogi and I differ is that I don’t think that planetary aspects work very accurately and there is a lot of guess work in using these and applying them in practice. I essentially see time in a very geometric light much like price, hence I don’t attribute any meaning to a date above a modified form of support and resistance.


Regards,


Magdoran
 
Magdoran,

Wow...great post. Your explanation crystallises how EW and/or time cycles and/or astro "bolt-on" (as you describe it) to trend analysis to become art.
 
Mogi.

Good to see your in put.

The analysis, just like EW should be a bolt on, and not the primary driver.

This is gods truth. There was and is other analysis which confirms that points in Elliot or whatever are likely to be significant. Im finding that a sound knowledge of Volume analysis is very helpful.

Here’s a big hint – most of any of these schools is usually only applicable for a minority (say 30% at a guess) or the time, and then only with certain patterns. Otherwise just straight charting on its own is often good enough to trade from (so again charting ability is the foundation, and not the other way).

I really think that those who are well versed can and do achieve far better than 30% on "those" charts which are considered "characteristic".

Radge is achieving 68% in his portfolio traded "behind the wall" in his Chartist members area.
 
tech/a said:
I really think that those who are well versed can and do achieve far better than 30% on "those" charts which are considered "characteristic"

I thought he meant the analysis technique might only apply 30% of the time ie. where it doesn't apply you can't force it.
 
theasxgorilla said:
I thought he meant the analysis technique might only apply 30% of the time ie. where it doesn't apply you can't force it.
Absolutely right. You should consider only applying (unless someone works out a better methodology) some forms of analysis in specific cases based on an interpretation of the pattern of trend. I suspect it’s around 30% for EW and for the cycle system I use. Sometimes I’ll just trade EW, sometimes just cycle, but the best trades combine the two.

When the “ducks” (hello tech!) line up (EW practitioners would call this “confluence”) you can get what I would call high probability trades.

Otherwise fully agree with you tech, spot on. And it is realising the pitfalls of an approach, as much as the strengths which is important.

So you’re absolutely correct theasxgorilla, you should try to avoid imposing/forcing a view, and pick the right tool(s) when appropriate. Of course this is the challenge. Knowing what to use and when. This is hardly a static activity either, it is in my experience an ongoing challenge to adapt and expand and refine ideas…

My directional percentage in terms of being correct is probably around 75% - but including movement within a narrow time frame, but when trading derivatives, you need to get 3 things right to maximise profits in the “sweet spot” – time, magnitude, as well as direction. Being right in direction is often not sufficient when swing trading derivatives.

Hence if you want to achieve 300-500% returns (or more) ranging from a few days to say 3 months, you need to be able to assess both risk and reward in a context of probability and standard deviation (wavepicker calls these “sigmas”).

In essence it’s like using a top spin forehand in tennis. You want to get your stroke right brushing up the ball with the right amount of body rotation.

In trading terms for instance I recently traded a stock long, did a diagonal ratio back spread on the day of the high(time cycle forecast) near the high, wound out the hedge 4 counter trend days later, and added to the long (it rallied the next day in continuation), then exited partially one third cover the cost of the original long on a bullish exhaustion for that drive, waited again for the pull back (all using time cycles and wave structure), added some further OTM strikes… etc looking to exit partially at the next projected high… based on time.

Hope that makes sense. But I can only do this when there are the right patterns. Otherwise I may just use price as a target if there is a harmonic in the division of the price range.


Regards


Magdoran
 
i thought yogi was just a joke, i never took him serious, i guess if he does take the work he does seriously, then so be it, but when i saw it appear on the adi thread i thought he was an astrologer or someone doing a horoscope type thing. i didnt think anything of it, do people take it seriously? i thought it was just a fun thing to laugh at..


sorry to yogi if he is around, no offence, but i get all my results from research, i rarely get any new info from the forums, mainly from straight hard research and more research..

maybe yogi isnt replying as he may be wondering why you're taking him seriously.. just a thought!!
 
Agentm said:
i thought yogi was just a joke, i never took him serious, i guess if he does take the work he does seriously, then so be it, but when i saw it appear on the adi thread i thought he was an astrologer or someone doing a horoscope type thing,, i didnt think anything of it, do poeple take it seroiusly? i thought it was just a fun thing to laugh at..


sorry to yogi if he is around, no offence, but i get all my results from research, i rarely get any new info from the forums, mainly from straight hard research and more research..

maybe yogi isnt replying as he may be wondering why your taking him seriously.. just a thought!!
I do think that there is a very serious component to what he does. It may seem like a joke at first, and there are a lot of rabbits with bizarre ideas out there that are crack pots.

I don’t subscribe to the astrology school myself, but some of their cycles if you examine them can be freaky in their accuracy – particularly the (almost 10 year) Saturn cycle. If you know what you are doing in commodities, this can be quite powerful…

But this requires a solid foundation of understanding of how markets trend. Specifically trends and counter trends, and good technical analysis techniques as the base. Otherwise a lot of this stuff is a complete waste of time. I have known many who have fiddled with time based approaches without understanding how to use them properly, and frankly they would have done better just trading with bar chart and volume.

Yogi is very well versed in his speciality, and does sometimes get great results, but I suspect that even he misses much of his own analysis. For instance he posted on the day of the May high last year, and got the price right for the top but the time wrong. This stuff is hard, and I’m sure he is still learning too. But some of his work is quite gifted. You just have to know enough to see it. I bet if he filled a few knowledge gaps he could be quite formidable.

The problem is that you can’t fathom what he’s doing because he (quite rightly) protects his IP and doesn’t publish all the critical elements in his thinking. Hence unless you understand the planetary concepts behind his posts, the information is meaningless. Even I only half get what he’s doing, and there are bits I just don’t get at all…

Anyway, that’s my imperfect perspective… Ha!


Mag
 
theasxgorilla said:
I thought he meant the analysis technique might only apply 30% of the time ie. where it doesn't apply you can't force it.

Yes I see --- and agree.

Magdoran said:
Hope that makes sense.

Yes of course---clearly a backhand smash while rotating in the opposite direction and angling at 83 degrees to the net with heaps of slice to cause the ball to pull up.All while sipping a gatoraid.

Magdoran said:
The problem is that you can’t fathom what he’s doing because he (quite rightly) protects his IP and doesn’t publish all the critical elements in his thinking. Hence unless you understand the planetary concepts behind his posts, the information is meaningless. Even I only half get what he’s doing, and there are bits I just don’t get at all…

Mogi.

Yogi often posts references to his site---he's put in a great deal of work.
But surely anyone who has any idea of marketing will realise that a full example/s of your work will be far more powerful than meaningless snippets to potential clients--or advocates.

Well thought out examples wont teach anyone how to use the analysis profitiently but can go a long way toward arousing curiosity to the point of---wow I really need to investigate this in more depth.

I'm sure he has confirming analysis tools either within the analysis of Gann/astrology or as an adjunct to it.
A clear and consise "Walk through" of a trade win or lose can be very powerful. There are things to be learnt when things turn for the worse on your analysis.


As an example.
I posted it behind Radges private wall of learning.(Chartist Members area)

Today one of my confirming indicators took me out of a trade I felt was a possible good long trade which took off yesterday with a great burst of volume and range.It looked like a good wave 5 entry possibility.

Today Seller supply overwhelmed buyers and it tanked. I didnt make a profit but I was able to get out at my buy.It lost a further 5 ticks---and would have been a few $$s had I not had the analysis capability of understanding what was happening.
 
tech/a said:
February 2007.

06022007 ... positive news expected here.

22022007 ... minor and intraday rally?

23-26022007 ... minor and positive

From 6/2 PNN to start having a good month so get back in or add to positions already held.
---

07022007 positive news - PNN extends MOU with Sino!!
 
On this topic, in contemplation of "bolting on" Elliott Wave, or time cycles, or astro, to essential trend analysis fundamentals...how do the aforementioned fit together with automated trend analysis/following systems?

For example, Tech/a, I understand that you have a largely automated system called TechTrader. Does this work in conjunction with your Elliott Wave stuff, or is it a separate system?
 
Totally seperate G.

Gotta hand it to yogi amazing predicting an announcement.

Its what the market does with it which will be the governing factor.
Still a corrective Elliot pattern consists of 3 waves (normally and typically) so this is playing out as expected.

Infact if you look at yogi's predictions and imagine a 3 wave 2 down 1 up scenario its pretty similar.

My question to yogi still stands how do you trade these types of predictions.
IE would you now be long after waiting for confirmation of the announcement? or would you have bought earlier in anticipation if so WHEN?

All well and good to have all these readings but how do you (yogi) trade them in a profitable manner?
 
tech/a said:
Today Seller supply overwhelmed buyers and it tanked. I didnt make a profit but I was able to get out at my buy.It lost a further 5 ticks---and would have been a few $$s had I not had the analysis capability of understanding what was happening.

:)

Hi folks,

Sometimes, it is just better to maintain the faith and wait
for those God-given time cycles to evolve naturally,
as they do (despite man's analysis and expectations) ... :)

So, the self annointed guru admitted to taking a loss
in PNN, yesterday !~!

So, what does EW analysis say today guys??

Buy back into PNN today on a gap-up, after taking a loss
at a lower price, yesterday ...???

That would be a VERY hard decision, for some traders !~!

-----

PNN 8:30 am Uranium Exploration Update .....

.... and for those who missed it, this was posted by PNN,
BEFORE the market opened today:

7 February, 2007
Uranium Project Update
Sinosteel Corporation (Sinosteel) and PepinNini Minerals Limited (PepinNini) have signed in
Beijing a legally binding Investment CoOperation Agreement (Agreement) in accordance with the
non-binding Memorandum of Understanding executed last September. The Agreement reinforces
both parties intention to establish a strategic alliance for the joint participation and co-operation in
the possible development and operation of the Crocker Well and Mt Victoria Uranium Deposits
and other commodities in the Curnamona Province of South Australia. It also facilitates an
application to the Chinese Government for approval of the alliance.
Under the Agreement Sinosteel Corporation will pay a non refundable A$1million for an
exclusivity period of 60 days expiring on 7th April, 2007 to obtain approvals from the Chinese and
Australian Governments and for both parties to finalise an unincorporated joint venture to
manage the project. If required Sinosteel can extend the exclusivity period for two additional
periods of 30 days each by payment of an additional A$500,000 for each additional period. If
Government approvals are not received or joint venture documentation not finalised by the end of
120 days the non-refundable payments will be converted into PepinNini shares to be issued to
Sinosteel at A$2.00 per share and the Agreement will be terminated. Previously paid exclusivity
payments will be converted to PepinNini shares in accordance with the MOU announced 13th
September 2006.
The terms of the acquisition remain the same as previously negotiated under the Memorandum of
Understanding signed Sept 2006. Subject to obtaining Government approvals and the finalisation
of an unincorporated exploration joint venture, Sinosteel will pay PepinNini A$28.5 million for a
60% stake in the Curnamona Province project and tenements. In addition Sinosteel will
contribute A$5 million expenditure towards drilling and preparation of a Bankable Feasibility
Study on the Uranium resource and A$6 million expenditure on exploration for commodities other
than uranium over a two year period within the project tenements. To allow exploration and the
commencement of a Bankable Feasibilty Study to proceed without delay any expenditure
incurred by PepinNini on the Project during the period of exclusivity will be reimbursed from the
A$5 million expenditure commitment for Uranium.

-----

..... some traders may consider the announcement above
to be positive ... lol ... :)

happy days

yogi

:)
 
Okay, I'll point it out again, as I've done before when yogi claims (occasional) success that isn't there (see AZZ thread).
Yogi's prediction was 06022007 ... positive news expected here.
The news came on 07022006.
So the prediction was wrong.
 
:)

Hi folks,

For those who have tipped the bucket on us in this thread
..... how are you feeling now???

To turn this thread into something constructive, instead
of the usual pointless head-butting, here's some further
insight into the PNN astrocycles, already posted.

Reasons for silence on this end throughout this thread, is
simply ABSOLUTE faith in those God-given time cycles ...
... natural time cycles, which NO MAN can change.

If we TRUST those time cycles, that affect us all, there's
NOTHING we can do, except wait and see how it all pans
out ... the cycles WILL ALWAYS unfold naturally, but it is
man's analysis and interpretation of those cycles, that can
be right or wrong ... but, if we use them in conjunction
with other TA, then our analysis becomes more accurate.

-----

For example, with regard to PNN analysis, in particular:

PNN price action has been negative, since the end of
January, as we approached our target date for an expected
positive cycle on 06022007 ... in the past 2 days, the
volume increased significantly, as the market panicked ...

PNN,20070205,1.76,1.8,1.44,1.59,701124

PNN,20070206,1.58,1.58,1.38,1.4,1111631

..... such extreme, negative price action and volume are
further confirmation to contrarians, that the market has
got it wrong, yet again.

This was backed up, by support found, around the small
gap-up, at the beginning of the year (1.36):

PNN,20070206,1.58,1.58,1.38,1.4,1111631

Lessons here being ... watch for extreme negative price
and volume, going into an expected positive cycle, as
they will often signal, that the market is due for a leasant
surprise, quite soon.

Likewise, extreme positive price action with high volume,
approaching an expected negative cycle, may well be a
reflection of the "madness of the crowds", as they buy in
fear of missing out on profits, with total disregard for any
proper analysis.

This stuff is quite SIMPLE and ANYBODY, with half a brain
can surely work out an entry and exit strategy, to suit their
own trading plan circumstances ... for example:

Agressive contrarians would have been buying ON our target
date, possibly around the close, after watching yesterday's
price action and the increased volume, close to critical
support, established at the beginning of 2007 ... THAT's
how you trade the time cycles .... use SIMPLE indicators and
for the most part, take a contrarian approach, particularly if
price action and volume is extreme, at strong support or
resistance levels.

No, being an aggressive trader does NOT always work,
which is why the issue of TIME STOPS was discussed,
in my FREE ebook, "Trading Plan ... wozzat??", at:

www.authorsden.com/SampleWorksPDF/10134.pdf

So, anybody buying PNN on 05-06022007 would probably
have benefited from today's gap-up at the open and the
subsequent price action that has ensued:

Code Last +/- % Bid Ask Open High Low Trades Volume
PNN 172 +32 +22.9% 172 173 156 172 155.5 143 472,191

.... up 22% on yesterday's close ... not bad for a calculated astropunt ... !~!

.....

Yes, often we do get them wrong ..... but, that has ZILCH to do with
the planetary time cycles themselves, as they will ALWAYS unfold in a
natural progression ... instead, it is our analysis and interpretation that
is wrong and astrotraders are constantly improving and developing
better tools, in an effort to improve their forecasting accuracy.

Fact is, we are really only just scratching the surface in understanding
how we can use the cosmic clock and fortunately for researchers and
astrotraders, the market is an ideal place to get a graphical overview
of sentiment changes (price), combined with analysis of the constant
TIME axis ..... :)

-----

So with PNN, justice has been done and astrostuff wins, again !~!

Meanwhile, EWavers have shown the shortcomings of their own craft,
as NONE of them have produced any evidence, that the waves forecast
a rally, around this time ..... in fact, they have bailed out of a stock, that
has since gapped-up ... just 1 day, after they bailed out !~!

..... better get back to counting those waves guys or maybe, it would
be more beneficial to learn some simple time cycle analysis,
to complement your wave counts.

happy days

yogi

P.S. ..... that Golden ratio Phi and its reciprocal (1.618 and .618), often
used by EWavers, have been circling around above our heads, since
God created our universe and can be seen in the annual movements
of the Moon, Venus, Sun and our Earth, too.

:)

=====
 
yogi-in-oz said:
:)

Hi folks,

For those who have tipped the bucket on us in this thread
..... how are you feeling now???

To turn this thread into something constructive, instead
of the usual pointless head-butting, here's some further
insight into the PNN astrocycles, already posted.

Reasons for silence on this end throughout this thread, is
simply ABSOLUTE faith in those God-given time cycles ...
... natural time cycles, which NO MAN can change.

If we TRUST those time cycles, that affect us all, there's
NOTHING we can do, except wait and see how it all pans
out ... the cycles WILL ALWAYS unfold naturally, but it is
man's analysis and interpretation of those cycles, that can
be right or wrong ... but, if we use them in conjunction
with other TA, then our analysis becomes more accurate.

-----

For example, with regard to PNN analysis, in particular:

PNN price action has been negative, since the end of
January, as we approached our target date for an expected
positive cycle on 06022007 ... in the past 2 days, the
volume increased significantly, as the market panicked ...

PNN,20070205,1.76,1.8,1.44,1.59,701124

PNN,20070206,1.58,1.58,1.38,1.4,1111631

..... such extreme, negative price action and volume are
further confirmation to contrarians, that the market has
got it wrong, yet again.

This was backed up, by support found, around the small
gap-up, at the beginning of the year (1.36):

PNN,20070206,1.58,1.58,1.38,1.4,1111631

Lessons here being ... watch for extreme negative price
and volume, going into an expected positive cycle, as
they will often signal, that the market is due for a leasant
surprise, quite soon.

Likewise, extreme positive price action with high volume,
approaching an expected negative cycle, may well be a
reflection of the "madness of the crowds", as they buy in
fear of missing out on profits, with total disregard for any
proper analysis.

This stuff is quite SIMPLE and ANYBODY, with half a brain
can surely work out an entry and exit strategy, to suit their
own trading plan circumstances ... for example:

Agressive contrarians would have been buying ON our target
date, possibly around the close, after watching yesterday's
price action and the increased volume, close to critical
support, established at the beginning of 2007 ... THAT's
how you trade the time cycles .... use SIMPLE indicators and
for the most part, take a contrarian approach, particularly if
price action and volume is extreme, at strong support or
resistance levels.

No, being an aggressive trader does NOT always work,
which is why the issue of TIME STOPS was discussed,
in my FREE ebook, "Trading Plan ... wozzat??", at:

www.authorsden.com/SampleWorksPDF/10134.pdf

So, anybody buying PNN on 05-06022007 would probably
have benefited from today's gap-up at the open and the
subsequent price action that has ensued:

Code Last +/- % Bid Ask Open High Low Trades Volume
PNN 172 +32 +22.9% 172 173 156 172 155.5 143 472,191

.... up 22% on yesterday's close ... not bad for a calculated astropunt ... !~!

.....

Yes, often we do get them wrong ..... but, that has ZILCH to do with
the planetary time cycles themselves, as they will ALWAYS unfold in a
natural progression ... instead, it is our analysis and interpretation that
is wrong and astrotraders are constantly improving and developing
better tools, in an effort to improve their forecasting accuracy.

Fact is, we are really only just scratching the surface in understanding
how we can use the cosmic clock and fortunately for researchers and
astrotraders, the market is an ideal place to get a graphical overview
of sentiment changes (price), combined with analysis of the constant
TIME axis ..... :)

-----

So with PNN, justice has been done and astrostuff wins, again !~!

Meanwhile, EWavers have shown the shortcomings of their own craft,
as NONE of them have produced any evidence, that the waves forecast
a rally, around this time ..... in fact, they have bailed out of a stock, that
has since gapped-up ... just 1 day, after they bailed out !~!

..... better get back to counting those waves guys or maybe, it would
be more beneficial to learn some simple time cycle analysis,
to complement your wave counts.

happy days

yogi

P.S. ..... that Golden ratio Phi and its reciprocal (1.618 and .618), often
used by EWavers, have been circling around above our heads, since
God created our universe and can be seen in the annual movements
of the Moon, Venus, Sun and our Earth, too.

:)

=====
Yogi,

Great call on the time point, well done.

However, I don’t think you understand the EW logic here at all, and are doing the analysis (which in my view was excellent) a great injustice.

The call was for a short, and the exit point would have yielded a solid profit. The entry and exit were excellent from a trading point of view – what more do you want?

Tech got the levels right, and showed an “ABC” pattern, which is exactly what happened. If you understood EW rules you’d know that an ABC is corrective, and signals the potential for a continuation of the main trend.

So a good trader may have traded the ABC portion short (or hedged conceptually), then re-entered around the low long.

So no, the EW player wouldn’t have “bailed out”, but exited a successful short capturing the lion’s share of the counter trend. There would also have been an opportunity to go long at this point using this analysis.

So no, the example bolstered the effectiveness of EW, and did not highlight shortcomings.

Your call for news was acceptably close enough from my point of view (forecasting +/- 1 trading day is excellent in my view). So you made a great call too.

Imagine using the two concepts in tandem? Imagine if they complemented the other? I have found this, and using both concepts in harmony I think is very potent. You know I use time points too.

I do not understand why you see the need to attack EW (unfairly I think in this case). In fact, I think that this is potentially one of the areas of knowledge that may fill some of the knowledge gap I alluded to earlier.

If you really understood EW, I think you’d find it very compatible with time based T/A.


Regards


Magdoran
 
Ok, looks like there’s a bit of a philosophical polemic here, so if you’re not into this read no more…
yogi-in-oz said:
:)

Reasons for silence on this end throughout this thread, is
simply ABSOLUTE faith in those God-given time cycles ...
... natural time cycles, which NO MAN can change.

If we TRUST those time cycles, that affect us all, there's
NOTHING we can do, except wait and see how it all pans
out ... the cycles WILL ALWAYS unfold naturally, but it is
man's analysis and interpretation of those cycles, that can
be right or wrong ... but, if we use them in conjunction
with other TA, then our analysis becomes more accurate.

:)

=====
This is where you and I differ Yogi. This smacks of determinism, and is based on a concept of predetermination.

I don’t accept this to be necessarily true, and in my heart of hearts I strongly suspect that the chaos model of the universe is much closer to the mark than bible thumping fundamentalism (the truth is probably that none of us can really be certain).

While I share you acceptance that there are cycles in nature, and hence cycles which can aid in trading, to ascribe these to an amorphous entity and assume that these cycles are immutable, and by corollary impose a rigid view of the way human events unfold in a deterministic manner I think begs the question.

I see history more as a reciprocal relationship between actors and structures, both actors with actors, structures with structures, and actors with structures. I think events can be very fluid sometimes, especially when events hang in the balance, and a myriad of variables come into play. It is like the alternative quantum realities in science fiction shows – many outcomes are possible, and it is like Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle - prediction is limited by this principle.

I don’t think the future is already written. I don’t believe in a deterministic world, but believe in a future when many outcomes are possible. I believe that we have a capacity to contribute to the way events unfold. I recognise I may be wrong here, and respect others may believe the opposite. This is a personal choice (much like religion), but assuming one way or the other I think subtly changes the way individuals approach life. This includes subtle effects on a trader’s mindset.

If you think it’s all predetermined in the fickle marketplace, I think this is an error. You can throw out Douglas’ concept of “anything can happen”, and “every moment in the market is unique”. Me, I choose the path where these axioms are at the core of the way I see the market. I reject the model of a deterministic future with rigidly set outcomes.


Regards


Magdoran
 
Magdoran said:
Yogi,

Great call on the time point, well done.

However, I don’t think you understand the EW logic here at all, and are doing the analysis (which in my view was excellent) a great injustice.

The call was for a short, and the exit point would have yielded a solid profit. The entry and exit were excellent from a trading point of view – what more do you want?

Tech got the levels right, and showed an “ABC” pattern, which is exactly what happened. If you understood EW rules you’d know that an ABC is corrective, and signals the potential for a continuation of the main trend.

So a good trader may have traded the ABC portion short (or hedged conceptually), then re-entered around the low long.

So no, the EW player wouldn’t have “bailed out”, but exited a successful short capturing the lion’s share of the counter trend. There would also have been an opportunity to go long at this point using this analysis.

So no, the example bolstered the effectiveness of EW, and did not highlight shortcomings.

Your call for news was acceptably close enough from my point of view (forecasting +/- 1 trading day is excellent in my view). So you made a great call too.

Imagine using the two concepts in tandem? Imagine if they complemented the other? I have found this, and using both concepts in harmony I think is very potent. You know I use time points too.

I do not understand why you see the need to attack EW (unfairly I think in this case). In fact, I think that this is potentially one of the areas of knowledge that may fill some of the knowledge gap I alluded to earlier.

If you really understood EW, I think you’d find it very compatible with time based T/A.


Regards


Magdoran


Well said Mag,

I have had disputes with Yogi regarding this very thing on previous threads.

I understand you use a hybrid approach of Gann/EW to compliment your pattern of the trend analysis. I think what Yogi has to understand is that Gann is NOT the be all and end all of TA. But rather a potent part of trading arsenal that can be used in conjunction with other tools. I have not found a complete tool that caters for all market situations, you need to have the right tools for the right job in a given instance, not necessarily to just help you win, but not to lose money as well as keep you on the right side of the market

No matter how good you think you are, learning never ever stops in this business, and there a milion ways of making mistakes. I too have seen shortcomings in EW over the years and have worked hard to bridge that gap with my own form of Cyclic Analysis using Fourier Transorms. Not to mention analysing the pattern of the trend as you do.

You have to stay open minded about about other techniques/methodologies that are out there that can help you do your job. Then there is the emotional aspect which is probably the most important of all but discarded by most traders.


Cheers
 
So, the self annointed guru admitted to taking a loss
in PNN, yesterday !~!

So, what does EW analysis say today guys??

Buy back into PNN today on a gap-up, after taking a loss
at a lower price, yesterday ...???

Yogi,cant you spell? Youve quoted that from the PEN P-E-N thread

Not trading PNN--P-N-N

This is not a correction pattern I would trade---. In the longer term its a wave 2 of 5 waves. This ABC pattern may not be finished with yet on a larger time frame. Quite possibly we may have seen the low for the corrective move. Nothing certain just yet.

Picking Announcements---now thats pretty damned good have to admit.

Will keep watching thanks for your reply---I know your a busy bear.
 
tech/a said:
Totally seperate G.

Why bother with all this manual, interpretive stuff if you have an automated system that conveniently (and I presume time-efficiently) notifies you when to buy? Genuine question...all my analysis is manual and to be frank, I'd love to have an automated system.
 
Techtrader is a long term (Long) trend following methodology.
It is pretty well set and forget. Like all (long) longterm methods it suffers drawdowns in not so ideal markets. As its test period on inception was 1994---2002 it is very possible that we have not seen maximum possible extremeties to drawdown. While the systems blueprint offers protection to the maximum drawdown known through testing oneday the method could well trigger a FULL STOP---IE now trading beyond known test result parameters.


Sure if and when this happens it can be re set and re tested and a new blueprint formulated,but as I trade I'm interested in a more precise methodology which I can trade with surplus funds and take advantage of opportunity when it is seen over shorter timeframes.Wether the central method is being traded or not.

2 vastly different trading methodologies.
 
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