Why Millennials are financially ruined

[satanoperca]

No internet, no social media.

Again present facts, not your world.

Intenet was alive in 1991 and social media was forums and bulletin boards. Cry me a river

 

[greggles]

Please present something of value, Melton. Hardly Melbourne

And whatever you degree was must have been worthless, as I worked through my second degree on the weekends and earned more than $300, cry me a river.

Melton is considered part of Melbourne. You may not think so, but it is.

I'm not crying about a job I did 30 years ago. I actually enjoyed it. It was the only opportunity I had at the time so I took it.

 

[greggles]

Again present facts, not your world.

Intenet was alive in 1991 and social media was forums and bulletin boards. Cry me a river

The internet really started for most people in 1995 when Windows 95 came along. Netscape Navigator was released in 1994. Those are facts.

 

[over9k]

I don't think anyone's arguing that others should live on noodles etc.

That said, look at the statistics for overseas travel and look at the sort of cars people have now. It's a vastly wealthier society now compared to the way things were in the aftermath of the early-1990's downturn.

He was literally saying exactly that.

Air travel is waaaaay cheaper now than it was 20 years ago thanks to the low cost carrier revolution. Wages haven't increased, air travel has just gotten cheaper. But we weren't talking about the affordability of air travel, we were talking about the affordability of things like putting a roof over the head of a family.

Fact is that if most boomers were to put their house on the market, their children would not be able to buy it. I can't think of anyone I know that's been able to buy even close to the equivalent of what their parents did at the same age. You now need a doctor's wage to buy what a mechanic bought in 1990. And I'm not being funny with that - a friend of mine who is gen Y and a doctor bought his house off a boomer that was a mechanic.

It's really no more complex than that, and that fact alone crystallises absolutely everything about this. House price increases are a zero sum game and that is a fact.

 

[greggles]

He was literally saying exactly that.

Actually I said you can eat for $5 a day, and you can. You don't need to eat 2 minute noodles to do it. It's harder to do as a single person but easier to do as a couple. A slow cooker is essential, but they are $25 at Target.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but it's possible. Again, it's a choice.

 

[Smurf1976]

FWIW I just looked up the pay rates for a job I held in the 1990's. The wages are set, there's literally zero room for negotiation, so a direct comparison.

In round figures $15 an hour then, $40 an hour today as per the award so in real terms, adjusting for official inflation, roughly a 50% increase.

Would be a lot safer physically too these days.

 

[satanoperca]

Melton is considered part of Melbourne. You may not think so, but it is.

I'm not crying about a job I did 30 years ago. I actually enjoyed it. It was the only opportunity I had at the time so I took it.

You tried to present a case, I would hate to be the current genereation, locked out of education (well affordable), faced with globalisation, the internet, highest property prices in the world and we live on a huge landmass, lack of opportunities due to automation etc etc.

No generation has had it easier than the previous, but the current generation are faced with higher taxes, a f---kd up world environmentally and less opportunities, happy to discuss

 

[sptrawler]

Why is Australia so Sydney/Melbourne focused, FFS a muppet can earn over $100k a year in North of W.A, sparkies and fitters $150-$200 engineers more, house supplied at concessional rates,
Why don't they drag their ar$es to where the work is, earn good money, buy a house in Sydney/Melbourne rent it out to help pay for it?

 

[Smurf1976]

Fact is that if most boomers were to put their house on the market, their children would not be able to buy it. I can't think of anyone I know that's been able to buy even close to the equivalent of what their parents did at the same age. You now need a doctor's wage to buy what a mechanic bought in 1990. And I'm not being funny with that - a friend of mine who is gen Y and a doctor bought his house off a boomer that was a mechanic.

It's really no more complex than that, and that fact alone crystallises absolutely everything about this.

No argument there, house prices have increased massively yes and it's by far the biggest problem dividing one generation from another.

It's not unique to Australia though. Only person I know who lives overseas (UK) has had the same place since the 1990's and it's now valued at roughly 6 times what they paid for it.

That's another country but still, a 500% jump far exceeds wages growth in that time.

 

[sptrawler]

Fact is that if most boomers were to put their house on the market, their children would not be able to buy it. I can't think of anyone I know that's been able to buy even close to the equivalent of what their parents did at the same age. You now need a doctor's wage to buy what a mechanic bought in 1990. And I'm not being funny with that - a friend of mine who is gen Y and a doctor bought his house off a boomer that was a mechanic.

It's really no more complex than that, and that fact alone crystallises absolutely everything about this. House price increases are a zero sum game and that is a fact.

When the mechanic bought the house, it was probably an outer suburb, if someone buys a house today in an outer suburb in 40 years time it will be an inner suburb and their children wont be able to afford it.
When the mechanic sold the house, did he get enough money to be able to buy a similar house closer to the city? No of course not, because they have gone up in proportion.

Take London, Beijing any major city in a country with a large population, every popular large city becomes ridiculously expensive, when Rudd was in office he stated that Australia would have a population of 50million by 2050.
My guess is he didn't pull that out of his nether regions, that would be a national plan, so following on from that if the demographics continue to be Melbourne/Sydney focused their populations could quite well triple.

What do you think will happen to prices, they will go down, give me a break.
But I bet Perth, Darwin, Adelaide prices don't perform as well as Melbourne/Sydney, basic supply and demand formulae.

Another example, in 1985 I bought my second house, I could have bought on the edge of the Swan river with Perth CBD directly across unobstructed for $90k, the bank wouldn't give me the loan and I bought 15klm out for $65k.
Now the house 15klm out is worth about $500k, the one on the Swan has been bulldozed years ago, but the block today would be about $3m.

 

[Joe Blow]

We're way off topic ladies and gentlemen. I'm going to have to find another thread to move all these posts to. Please stand by and I'll see what the options are.

EDIT: Okay, I've decided to move all the posts beginning with @over9k's post with the YouTube video into a new thread.

 

[againsthegrain]

when Rudd was in office he stated that Australia would have a population of 50million by 2050.
My guess is he didn't pull that out of his nether regions, that would be a national plan, so following on from that if the demographics continue to be Melbourne/Sydney focused their populations could quite well triple

Then covid came along, things are never straight forward as they seem or are planned.
All the speculators in Japan during late 80s would of been saying the same then the lost decade hit.

* only using this as a example, anything can happen from here.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

2 penneth worth then I'll dash off again

Some millenials may face financial ruin but some won't. A bit like most generations.

 

[over9k]

Actually I said you can eat for $5 a day, and you can. You don't need to eat 2 minute noodles to do it. It's harder to do as a single person but easier to do as a couple. A slow cooker is essential, but they are $25 at Target.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but it's possible. Again, it's a choice.

If you think you should have to live on $5 of food a day to be able to afford a roof over your head, I don't really know what to say to you.

 

[againsthegrain]

If you think you should have to live on $5 of food a day to be able to afford a roof over your head, I don't really know what to say to you.

Petrol was 70c in late 90s too, you can't compare $5 then to $5 now

 

[greggles]

If you think you should have to live on $5 of food a day to be able to afford a roof over your head, I don't really know what to say to you.

You'd be surprised what $5 will buy.

Breakfast:
Slice wholemeal toast with vegemite (20c)
One banana (50c)
One apple or nectarine (50c)
Boiled egg (30c)

Lunch:
One wholemeal bread sandwich with cheese, sliced ham, and tomato. ($1)
One piece fruit (50c)

Dinner:
Three bean chilli (dried beans, rehydrated overnight and cooked in slow cooker with onions, canned tomatoes etc.)
Pasta and vegetable bake
Large salad (cucumbers, red onion, tomato, canned beans) with canned tuna
Large bowl minestrone soup with two slices of bread or toast
Vegetable fried rice (made with a few eggs, onion, cheapest frozen veg from Woolies and generic brand rice)

Any are easily made for approximately $2 per serve. Make in bulk (except salad) and freeze leftovers in meal sized containers.

There are many other choices, that is just a few as examples. Don't buy your fruit from Woolworths or Coles, go the independent fruit barns or farmer's markets instead.

 

[againsthegrain]

You'd be surprised what $5 will buy.

Breakfast:
Slice wholemeal toast with vegemite (20c)
One banana (50c)
One apple or nectarine (50c)
Boiled egg (30c)

Lunch:
One wholemeal bread sandwich with cheese, sliced ham, and tomato. ($1)
One piece fruit (50c)

Dinner:
Three bean chilli (dried beans, rehydrated overnight and cooked in slow cooker with onions, canned tomatoes etc.)
Pasta and vegetable bake
Large salad (cucumbers, red onion, tomato, canned beans) with canned tuna
Large bowl minestrone soup with two slices of bread or toast
Vegetable fried rice (made with a few eggs, onion, cheapest frozen veg from Woolies and generic brand rice)

Any are easily made for approximately $2 per serve. Make in bulk (except salad) and freeze leftovers in meal sized containers.

There are many other choices, that is just a few as examples. Don't buy your fruit from Woolworths or Coles, go the independent fruit barns or farmer's markets instead.

the saying is you are what you eat then.... not going to last long on that

 

[greggles]

the saying is you are what you eat then.... not going to last long on that

Well, you have to mix it up. Those are just examples. Instead of a ham, tomato and cheese sandwich make it tuna salad. Or swap the ham for salami. Or make a salad.

For breakfast, make porridge with a piece of fruit chopped up and some milk.

The dinner variations are endless if you're creative but will generally revolve around vegies, rice, pasta, eggs, canned fish, chicken legs, marinara seafood mix, potatoes, and other cheaper staples such as beans, chick peas, lentils etc.

You can even make spaghetti bolognaise for $2 a serve. Just go easy on the beef and heavy on the canned tomatoes.

It's all perfectly good for you and you're getting your 1,800 calories a day. If you're a body builder then it obviously won't work for you.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Each generation has its own challenges.

Just take some harden up pills and do your best.



gg

 

[Smurf1976]

Trying to be objective and comparing now with 35 years ago:

Technology has improved beyond belief. Ordinary people can now access information sitting at home that even governments had some difficulty in obtaining with accuracy back then.

Want to know what London looked like from the air in 1945? It's on Google Earth. Nobody actually living in London in 1945 would have seen such images unless the newspapers happened to publish them which for the vast majority of the city they wouldn't have in any useful resolution.

Or on the entertainment side, well it's easier to watch a live musical performance from 1985 today than it was to see that exact same performance back in 1985. Then you needed to personally be there or in the unlikely event it was broadcast, live in whatever country it was broadcast in. Today literally anyone can watch amateur or professional film of just about anything and even things recorded illegally at the time, and which the broadcast media desperately wanted to get hold of but couldn't, are freely available to anyone today.

Pretty much everyone in 2020 can take better photos than any amateur could even just 20 years ago. For every decent shot taken with film, there's another thousand that are mediocre to say the least. Meanwhile with other equipment no trouble with ghosting, no trouble with tapes pulling out, no heads to clean....... In 2020 it just works.

Cars have also massively improved. Go back to 1985 and there were plenty of 1970's and 60's cars blowing smoke out the exhaust and so on, most cars actually in use had no air-conditioning, they didn't have power steering, carburettors and ignition points were still a thing and so on. Get in, pull the choke, turn the key and pray that the damn thing starts. Plus don't forget that it's an outright death trap in even the slightest accident.

Travel all day in a modern car and it's dead easy. Do the same distance in an old car and you're pretty much stuffed - noise, vibration and of course no power steering.

Health and Safety is another thing that has massively improved. Back then you were going to cop plenty of cigarette smoke whether you smoked yourself or not. In workplaces, in restaurants, pubs and clubs were outright full of it, people smoked in shopping centers too. Meanwhile every car left behind a cloud of lead and every time the brakes were applied out came asbestos dust. Yep, the entire population exposed to asbestos whether they liked it or not.

Meanwhile when it came to the workplace, well the job had to be done. 2020 versus even the late 1990's is day versus night, there's simply no comparison. To say things were done dangerously back then compared to today is an understatement to say the least. Government was bad enough, private enterprise was usually even worse.

Travel is drastically cheaper. Even domestic travel is ludicrously cheap compared to what it used to be and international is pretty much unbelievable. End result is far more people traveling overseas than was ever the case previously when having been overseas, ever, was one way to identify yourself as being at least somewhat well off.

Consumer goods are drastically cheaper. Anything from a pair of jeans to a washing machine is ridiculously cheap these days.

Interest rates are low to the point that from a 1980's perspective they're just not plausible. Someone seeing a rate of 3% would have assumed that was an error, put a 1 in front of it, and corrected the mistake. They're not just low, they're unbelievably low - of all things I thought I might see happen someday, I'd never have believed anyone who said rates would go this low.

What has not improved is the affordability of housing. That is not confined to Australia, it's a problem in some other countries too. Whilst that's one of the very few things to have gone backwards, it's also a very big one from a personal expenditure perspective and undoes much of the financial gain elsewhere.

That said, trying to be neutral, at least some of the blame for the housing situation needs to be shouldered by all generations:

*Sydney and Melbourne have both failed to invest adequately in infrastructure. New subdivisions, new highways, new mass transit and so on. At the risk of throwing stones, it all seems a bit "green" and there's reluctance to accept that population growth means more clear felling the bush, it means more cars, more dams, more emissions, more everything. Cramming people into higher density and rationing out a limited supply was always going to send prices through the roof so to the extent anyone supports that, there's part of the problem.

Personally I'd rather stop population growth, but if we're going to import people well then no point pretending what needs to be done if we're to maintain lifestyles and so on. Get on with building.

*Sydney and Melbourne aren't the only two places in the country where a decent life can be had and likewise London isn't the only place in the UK and so on. Get outside the big cities, be it in Australia or in other countries, and the situation is better.

*There's a really bizarre trend to knock down perfectly good houses in order to build an even bigger house in its place. Seriously, on this one people need to get a grip - a typical 1960's house in Australia is large by the standards of a brand new place in most parts of the world so no, it doesn't need to be subject to a "knockdown rebuild". Just live in it and save a fortune.

Wages and conditions are somewhat mixed. Some wages have gone up, some have gone down at least in real terms, conditions likewise. I'll be blunt and say it though - there's more than a few shooting themselves in the foot and the reason for that can be summed up in one word. Union. Unless you really are of exceptional value to your employer and can negotiate successfully then you're better off being a member.