Why do people down-ramp?

[chops_a_must]

That would be like me saying a month ago <insert company here> is a dud as far as share price goes, and then saying I'm correct because the share price dropped! With current market sentiment, just about EVERYTHING is getting hammered. Predicting a falling SP is going to fall more short term means nothing about the actual company.

OK my turn.... BHP is a dud and totally overvalued IMO.

If BHP falls even lower next week, it doesnt mean I'm right!

I think the point is not acknowledging other view points, then crying foul, and blaming everyone but yourself when you have been proven wrong, yet not admitting it and continuing on in the same manner.

You or I could predict whatever the hell we want. But we would be stupid to stick to an analysis that was proven entirely wrong.

 

[Trembling Hand]

That would be like me saying a month ago <insert company here> is a dud as far as share price goes, and then saying I'm correct because the share price dropped! With current market sentiment, just about EVERYTHING is getting hammered. Predicting a falling SP is going to fall more short term means nothing about the actual company.

Gav you have completely missed the point.

There are times to be risk seeking and times to be risk adverse. BUT the number one thing to do is to protect capital.

Now is obviously the time to be protecting capital and be risk adverse. When EVERYTHING, as you say, is down trending the proper thing to do is to stand aside. That is what the hot money is doing just have a look at the AUD for evidence.

That is what people do that actually make money out of the markets. They ride trends. EVERYTHING is down trending that is why people "down-ramp" because they cannot believe the stupidity of people holding things that get cut by 80% and they still love the stock.

Now whether or not we start from Monday on a ripping up trend is of no concern to people that make consistent money from the market. As they will have plenty of cash left to ride that trend. The stubborn will miss that and make no money this year and most likely be lucky to get back to break even. Many more will never get their money back.

That is why people "down-ramp" they know there is better thing to do with their loyalty than give it to a falling stock.

 

[cordelia]

Hi , is quoting facts classed as downramping ? or is it called providing an unbiased and factual viewpoint ?

You have drawn attention to a contentious issue "quoting facts". Exactly what does that mean....Few posters qualify their claims with supporting evidence....namely legitmate referencing....

At all times it is important to question claims regarding a particular stock, particularly in the absence of substantiating evidence in the form of referenced articles or links to company reports...

The acronym "DYOR" is brandied about with unwanten abandon. Few truly understand what that means......

Downrampers, whatever their purpose, feed off people's lack to take responsibilty for their own financial situation.....

If you need to ask someone else for advice in investment you should not be investing......

 

[theasxgorilla]

Just a quick note from the mod team...obviously plenty of thoughts on this topic, lively discussion etc. Please do mindfully observe our "play the ball not the man" rule. This is a preemptive post as much as anything.

Thanks, carry on.

 

[nioka]

If you need to ask someone else for advice in investment you should not be investing......

That is not right. It is OK to ask for advice if you need help in making up your mind. Everyone needs some advice sometimes. Maybe if you are not prepared to ask for advice sometimes THEN you should not be investing.

 

[IFocus]

Gav you have completely missed the point.

There are times to be risk seeking and times to be risk adverse. BUT the number one thing to do is to protect capital.

Now is obviously the time to be protecting capital and be risk adverse. When EVERYTHING, as you say, is down trending the proper thing to do is to stand aside. That is what the hot money is doing just have a look at the AUD for evidence.

That is what people do that actually make money out of the markets. They ride trends. EVERYTHING is down trending that is why people "down-ramp" because they cannot believe the stupidity of people holding things that get cut by 80% and they still love the stock.

Now whether or not we start from Monday on a ripping up trend is of no concern to people that make consistent money from the market. As they will have plenty of cash left to ride that trend. The stubborn will miss that and make no money this year and most likely be lucky to get back to break even. Many more will never get their money back.

That is why people "down-ramp" they know there is better thing to do with their loyalty than give it to a falling stock.

TH top post as always..................................................

 

[Sean K]

There is rarely any real ramping or downramping on this forum. The vast majority of posts are factual and objective, and if not, people are directed to another site.

 

[treefrog]

TH top post as always..................................................

agrees with IFocus...................................................

 

[zolow]

There is rarely any real ramping or downramping on this forum. The vast majority of posts are factual and objective, and if not, people are directed to another site.

I agree with you on this one Kennas. IMO, most ramping, up or down, is usually picked up pretty quickly by the users and put into question.

Usually you can identify a ramp by reading the post below it that usually says something along the lines of:

"you haven't provided any basis for your argument..."

This is all conjecture anyway... IMO the stock market leads and the messages on this board follow, not than the other way around. For me, ramping is more an annoyance to the general discussion of a stock rather than acually having an effect on the price of a stock.

Z

 

[gav]

Gav you have completely missed the point.

There are times to be risk seeking and times to be risk adverse. BUT the number one thing to do is to protect capital.

Now is obviously the time to be protecting capital and be risk adverse. When EVERYTHING, as you say, is down trending the proper thing to do is to stand aside. That is what the hot money is doing just have a look at the AUD for evidence.

That is what people do that actually make money out of the markets. They ride trends. EVERYTHING is down trending that is why people "down-ramp" because they cannot believe the stupidity of people holding things that get cut by 80% and they still love the stock.

Now whether or not we start from Monday on a ripping up trend is of no concern to people that make consistent money from the market. As they will have plenty of cash left to ride that trend. The stubborn will miss that and make no money this year and most likely be lucky to get back to break even. Many more will never get their money back.

That is why people "down-ramp" they know there is better thing to do with their loyalty than give it to a falling stock.

Great post, and thank-you for clearing it up. For a trader, I understand the importance of a stop loss, it limits losses and helps when people are 'loyal' to a particular stock. But should investors use a stop? If they are in it for the long term, they are more concerned with the SP of 5yrs time, not today or next month. Should investors also set stops, just with more lee-way, to protect their capital? If an investor keeps getting stopped out, should they just sit back and wait, or rethink the way they invest? I have so much to learn....

 

[aleckara]

Great post, and thank-you for clearing it up. For a trader, I understand the importance of a stop loss, it limits losses and helps when people are 'loyal' to a particular stock. But should investors use a stop? If they are in it for the long term, they are more concerned with the SP of 5yrs time, not today or next month. Should investors also set stops, just with more lee-way, to protect their capital? If an investor keeps getting stopped out, should they just sit back and wait, or rethink the way they invest? I have so much to learn....

Well a lot of people learn trading the hard way. The stops that you took have probably helped you protect your money a lot more had you not had them.

Learn from your mistakes. Why did you fail? While I'm not the expert trader (far from it) thats advice that applies to everything.

 

[prawn_86]

If an investor keeps getting stopped out, should they just sit back and wait, or rethink the way they invest? I have so much to learn....

*off topic*

Obviously it varies with different strategies.

With the benefit of hindsight, selling out 6 months ago (or earlier) when things started to get hairy would have been a good idea.

Just because an investor is buying for long term does not mean they should just 'set and forget'. They should be constantly re-evaluating their stocks and the overall market conditions and sentiment. EG - some stocks like BNB will probably never recover to anywhere near their previous highs.

 

[basilio]

There is so much psychology and confidence in the stock market and our participation in it. Almost by definition after we have taken a position in a stock we firmly believe it is going to go well. After all we (believe) we have checked it carefully, it's good value, and so on.

And yet in a collapsing market everything falls because the "sensible" players recognise that sentiment and confidence will beat seemingly rational analysis any day. So they sell regardless of long term quality.

There is another point particularly appropriate in the market as it has developed recently. Simply there is now far more speculation and pure gambling than longer term investing. The speculators, for example hedge funds, day traders et al. want to see the 30% returns in days and weeks rather than wait for actual production and profits. Instant gratification, instant returns.

For example how would anyone here react if they believed that a 10 c stock could double or treble in a week because lots of enthusiastic newbies believed it was on the verge of a "great announcement". ( I'm sure most forum members saw the pump and dump stock emails from the last couple of years)

This also applies to companies which manipulate their earnings to book profits that come from thin air or just very sympathetic revaluations. So what we end up seeing is far more money being made from the trading in bits of paper than anything real at the other end.

Which of course is why the house of cards is currently collapsing..

 

[Boggo]

The funny side of it....

 

[seasprite]

I have sold a stock , then a couple of days later I ramped the stock down, not for my benefit but purely due to the reason I sold it in the first place . That reason was directors were planning to issue more shares and dilute value.

It did not bother me if anyone took any notice , however the shares are currently trading at half the value I sold for and those that did decide to sell up before the plunge , good one. Those that did not , maybe the price might come back up you never know.

 

[Spaghetti]

Downramp? Do you mean this?

Ramper

Buy xxx and you will be rich in two months and be able to retire and spend your life jetsetting all for the grand sum of $10,000. You will soon find out that this stock will end all your financial troubles and will return 4,000%. Nobody knows about it yet, be the first to enter this multibagger, before the Chinese come shopping. If the price goes down be sure to stock up because all the smart money like Buffet buy at the bottom.

enter downramper

But the company has nothing of any value? How can it go up up 4,000%? On what basis, the only evidence is that they have a few grains of gold left over from panning 120 years ago and a yellowed map with arrows of where Lassister was last spotted.

ramper

Why do you come on here downramping when you do not own the stock. I know, you are trying to get people to sell so you can buy cheaper. You are a criminal and I am going to report you to ASIC. Nobody listen to the downrampers, they just want to buy your stock cheap and make 5,000%. This is a long term hold folks, you will not regret it. I spoke to the company yesterday and they assured me the report will be out in a matter of days and was told by someone in the know that it wll be good news and the market will wake up to it's potential.

enter downramper

I am not downramping, just stating the facts

ramper

You would not know the facts if they hit you in the face. I know because I have connections in the industry. Also I spoke to a geo and he confirms the potential and says it is going to fly. Also heard that Chinese are interested and should be hearing something within next few weeks. See I KNOW the facts, whereas you do not.

enter downramper, some weeks later

Still no Chinese, s/p down 200%, so what is up?

ramper gone (with profit) so a convert (with losses) answers now

Has nothing to do with the Chinese or the fact they haven't got jorc yet or any decent gold finds, it is the market in general that caused the s/p to fall. The company will bounce back and those still holding will soon make 4000% and you are just jealous.

ah the evils of the downramper, ruining make believe stories, Santa is real you know!

 

[skyQuake]

Buy xxx and you will be rich in two months and be able to retire and spend your life jetsetting all for the grand sum of $10,000. You will soon find out that this stock will end all your financial troubles and will return 4,000%...

Ok you've sold me already! Didn't bother reading the rest, so whats this xxx stock you're talking about? :