Why are you so knowledgeable?

jersey10 · 17 February 2009

I have been a member of this forum for over a year now and have learnt much. I am very grateful to the many contributors who spend a lot of time giving insightful posts related to how they trade as well as general trading discussion. One thing i often think about when i read various posts is how has this person become so knowledgeable about the trading game.

Is it possible to become a consistently profitable and knowledgeable trader without any formal education or without working at a trading organisation such as Propex? I suspect many would answer definitely yes to this. The subsequent question would be are you better off to get a formal education (e.g. economics degree, finance degree, diploma in technical analysis, etc) and / or work for a trading organisation? Will you become a profitable trader and more knowledgeable trader quicker if you do this or can you become just as proficient just as quickly if you teach yourself by reading a lot and practising a lot?

MRC & Co · 17 February 2009

jersey10 said:
just as quickly if you teach yourself by reading a lot and practising a lot?

First bold part: No need, just learn the basics.

Second bold part: That is all it takes.

Working for a discretionary company, will not guarantee you an edge whatsoever. There is enough information around this site, with enough practice, you can do it yourself. But as TH says, think outside the box, don't just do what a book says. Find your own edge.

But at the moment, definately tough tough times for a trader worldwide of most styles and methods (unless your Frank D, don't think he ever struggles).

Trembling Hand · 17 February 2009

jersey10 said:
can you become just as proficient just as quickly if you teach yourself by reading a lot and practising a lot?

You forgot the most important one. Reviewing a lot.

Practise is nothing if it isn't structured to improve specific skills/niches or eliminate repeating errors. And you cannot do that unless you review your results repeatedly to find out what the hell you need to work on.

Actually not sure what use reading a lot gets you after a certain amount of knowledge?? Probably just runs you around in circles. IMO

GumbyLearner · 17 February 2009

Intelligence. Relative concept. :

Here's something that might shed some light.

"PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT PEOPLE LIKE ME AS A MEMBER".
- Groucho Marx

James Austin · 17 February 2009

jersey10 said:
I have been a member of this forum for over a year now and have learnt much. I am very grateful to the many contributors who spend a lot of time giving insightful posts related to how they trade as well as general trading discussion. One thing i often think about when i read various posts is how has this person become so knowledgeable about the trading game.

Is it possible to become a consistently profitable and knowledgeable trader without any formal education or without working at a trading organisation such as Propex? I suspect many would answer definitely yes to this. The subsequent question would be are you better off to get a formal education (e.g. economics degree, finance degree, diploma in technical analysis, etc) and / or work for a trading organisation? Will you become a profitable trader and more knowledgeable trader quicker if you do this or can you become just as proficient just as quickly if you teach yourself by reading a lot and practising a lot?

Ditch the formal qualifications. Toilet paper when it comes to being a trader in the true sense of the word.

To trade you must “do” and “do” it lots.

Now, it makes complete sense that if you wish to master something, then it is very helpful to have a “genuine” mentor to guide and support you.

I suspect places like Propex offer such guidance and support.

Alternatively, there are private mentors who can guide you; but difficult to find a genuine and cost effective one.

Myself, Dilernia is effectively my mentor, via his trading system and blog. It wasn’t until he started showing me how he trades for a living that my own trading has moved away from loss and B.E., and into profit.

In sum, IMO, reading a lot wont help much, practising and reviewing will help, but the process is sped up with genuine support and guidance from traders who actually trade for a living.

wayneL · 17 February 2009

Noob: Tell me Mr Guru Trader, why are you so good at trading?

Guru Trader: I make good decisions.

N: How do you know what a good decision is?

GT: Experience.

N: How do you acquire experience?

GT: From making bad decisions!

Baboom.

sinner · 17 February 2009

I browse other trading sites for 18+ hours a day and then copy the good trades on here to make myself look smart.

noirua · 17 February 2009

A business man, can't remember who, did say the more mistakes he made the better he was doing. The percentage of mistakes dropping all the time, however.
Later, having experienced a downturn he said this was due to making less mistakes.

MRC & Co · 18 February 2009

See I disagree you need a mentor (and I think this is one of the biggest myths around now).

If you are trying to emulate a style, then yes. For James, this is Frank D.

But other than that, it's about finding your own edge.

There is no magic answer, you can learn all the patterns you want, all the different methods, trying to hit high win % or trying to get large winners. Where your targets are, where your stops will be etc etc etc. All depends on the market. This is where you have to adapt, and adapting becomes part of your edge. If your trying to run winners in a choppy market, you are not going to do well for example.

This is the hard part, everyone wants an easy, fool proof method. And there is no such thing. Be innovative, be creative and don't be afriad to go against what feels safe or natural human behaviour (or follow a creative method such as Frank D), other than that, using what is easy and what 99% of others use, will just see you become one of the herd.

That's my opinion anyways.

tommymac · 18 February 2009

MRC & Co said:
... it's about finding your own edge.

There is no magic answer, you can learn all the patterns you want, all the different methods, trying to hit high win % or trying to get large winners. Where your targets are, where your stops will be etc etc etc. All depends on the market. This is where you have to adapt, and adapting becomes part of your edge. If your trying to run winners in a choppy market, you are not going to do well for example.

I agree with this. There is no magic answer and I believe this is where some of the major investment companies have failed. They haven't been able to adapt.

I am only young in investing but have come a long way when I started about 3 years ago just by learning and experiencing and making good decisions and bad mistakes.

I have also learned by watching and listening to other people. I had a previous boss I thought was good at investing, but as I watched her more and more, I realised she was just reiterating what she had read or heard from other people. She was not a good investor at all and so I no longer looked up to her. From this I learned that even when someone gives you advice, do your own research.

James Austin · 18 February 2009

MRC & Co said:
See I disagree you need a mentor (and I think this is one of the biggest myths around now).

If you are trying to emulate a style, then yes. For James, this is Frank D.

But other than that, it's about finding your own edge.

There is no magic answer, you can learn all the patterns you want, all the different methods, trying to hit high win % or trying to get large winners. Where your targets are, where your stops will be etc etc etc. All depends on the market. This is where you have to adapt, and adapting becomes part of your edge. If your trying to run winners in a choppy market, you are not going to do well for example.

This is the hard part, everyone wants an easy, fool proof method. And there is no such thing. Be innovative, be creative and don't be afriad to go against what feels safe or natural human behaviour (or follow a creative method such as Frank D), other than that, using what is easy and what 99% of others use, will just see you become one of the herd.

That's my opinion anyways.

You don’t “need” a mentor, but it does speed the process, surely!

Doesn’t matter what the endeavour, if you want to be good at it, hang out with those who are already good at it.

Perhaps you have a different definition of mentor than I do.

I view a mentor merely as support, guidance and pointing you in the right direction, again and again and again.

After that you are on your own, you still have to “become your own trader”, find your own edge.

beerwm · 18 February 2009

Expanding on this edge term;
this is how i view the stockmarket

Expectancy; [these are made up, but you get the idea]
Slots - 0.9
Blackjack - 0 - 1.1 [counting cards/or not]
Poker - 0.9 - 1.1 [depending on system]
Stockmarket 0.001 - 9.999+ [depending on system]

during a Bull Market - expectancy is more than 1.00 or Bear Market less than 1.00. [on a whole/ money being created/ money being lost]

its almost like you can create your own casino game in the stockmarket and play by your own rules, or not play at all.

Based on my little equation i'd say all you need is an open/adaptable/no bias/disciplined mind. - which is hard enough in itself.

just a newbs view,

MRC & Co · 18 February 2009

James Austin said:
Perhaps you have a different definition of mentor than I do.

I view a mentor merely as support, guidance and pointing you in the right direction, again and again and again.

.

See this is where I've come to disagree with the term for mentor for anything other than purely showing you their style and you trying to imitate.

Other than that, it is impossible to 'point you in the right direction and provide guidance', because everything works and everything doesn't. Some guys average down and let trades run way offside and make twice as much as most traders ever will, but at the same time, some traders won't let a trade run offside for more than a couple ticks on a futures contract and are excellent pure scalpers.

Just my opinion.

Trembling Hand · 18 February 2009

beerwm said:
Based on my little equation i'd say all you need is an open/adaptable/no bias/disciplined mind. - which is hard enough in itself.

Beer I see you are are still in the reading and believing books phase. :

James Austin · 18 February 2009

MRC & Co said:
See this is where I've come to disagree with the term for mentor for anything other than purely showing you their style and you trying to imitate.

Perhaps showing you their style is enough.

Other than that, it is impossible to 'point you in the right direction and provide guidance', . . .

A teacher or mentor by definition should be able to point me in the right direction. But can I follow?

beerwm · 18 February 2009

Trembling Hand said:
Beer I see you are are still in the reading and believing books phase. :

not a fan of the books TH?

personally, i think i've learnt all i need to... but i guess i thought that when i first started too. so i continue on.

enjoying the ride

nunthewiser · 18 February 2009

beerwm said:
personally, i think i've learnt all i need to... but i guess i thought that when i first started too. so i continue on.

enjoying the ride

learns constantly here ......

johenmo · 18 February 2009

Got to get into the water sometime to learn to swim. Same with the stockmarket. My plan includes reading a book or similar per month.

Register for the ASX Game. You can play around to your heart's content. I will.

I now enough to recognise that I need some knowledge and then practice (paper trade, ASX game, etc). So that's the plan atm.

Too new to try to beat the market!!!! And probably will always be too new.

MRC & Co · 18 February 2009

James Austin said:
Perhaps showing you their style is enough.

Not when it's completely discretionary.

IFocus · 18 February 2009

wayneL said:
Noob: Tell me Mr Guru Trader, why are you so good at trading?

Guru Trader: I make good decisions.

N: How do you know what a good decision is?

GT: Experience.

N: How do you acquire experience?

GT: From making bad decisions!

Baboom.

LOL sums up my history I think.............made faster progress when I started to study people who traded for a living instead of BS sprukers.......

Why are you so knowledgeable?

jersey10

MRC & Co

Trembling Hand

Can be found on the bid

GumbyLearner

James Austin

wayneL

VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!

sinner

noirua

MRC & Co

tommymac

James Austin

beerwm

MRC & Co

Trembling Hand

Can be found on the bid

James Austin

beerwm

nunthewiser

johenmo

MRC & Co

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

Similar threads

Why are you so knowledgeable?

Can be found on the bid

VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!

Can be found on the bid

You are arguing with a Galah

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency