Which two indicators would you use?

[Largesse]

spread?

 

[nunthewiser]

Uses volume and a good ole fashioned bar chart for position and swing trading

I have no use or need for any other indicators.

I also use fundamental data/research amongst other criteria before entering a position style trade.


Uses D.O.M/ C.O.S and intraday 5 min/1 min charts(including vols) for intraday trading

Like i said i like to K.I.S.S.

Now wasnt that a boring read compared to all the nobs and whistle indicator posts out there .

 

[nulla nulla]

spread?

Interday movement. if it doesn't have sufficient volume/liquidity to move a few % points through the day it isn't much good for trading as you coulld buy and have to hold as you wait for it to move one way or the other.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Those who dare to question convention set themselves apart

Indeed. I did some time ago when I stop chasing outliers like the toothless punter you see standing around a TAB all day or the dream chasers trading penny dreadfuls.

On another note after you ably your Pareto principle and only trade your good trades do you apply it again and only trade the 20% of the 20%. Then hell why not apply it again

 

[tech/a]

Indeed. I did some time ago when I stop chasing outliers like the toothless punter you see standing around a TAB all day or the dream chasers trading penny dreadfuls.

On another note after you ably your Pareto principle and only trade your good trades do you apply it again and only trade the 20% of the 20%. Then hell why not apply it again

I find it interesting that you are prepared to make so many assumptions prior to knowing the content of my contibution.

You are so predujiced in your view that you can only see one arguement (yours) which could be workable.

It appears that the only opinion worth following on this forum in your view is your own?

Regardless I will put mine up for those who want something out of conventional thinking.
Tommorow wheni have a computer

 

[waza1960]

Welcome back Tech.It would be great if yourself and TH and your egos could co-exist on this forum as I think you two are possibly the most valuable members we have here, knowledge and experience wise.I know the forum was not the same without you both.

 

[barney]

Indeed. I did some time ago when I stop chasing outliers like the toothless punter you see standing around a TAB all day or the dream chasers trading penny dreadfuls.

It appears that the only opinion worth following on this forum in your view is your own?

Regardless I will put mine up for those who want something out of conventional thinking.

Good to see both you guys back, and at it tooth and nail as expected

TH ..... much respect as you know ..... totally understand your points ... I have been "learning" FX for quite a while now, and the concept of chasing big moves on either Index's or FX is, on most occasions, a fools game ..... which is what you are trying to warn the "un-convinced" punters of

Tech, Chasing outliers (stocks) is certainly a viable quest, but if the market is sideways/down, those opportunities are often short/unreliable at best, I'm sure you agree ??

For me, the light bulb moment (trading forex) was when I started thinking (or trying to think) like a "smart money" trader .... ie doing almost exactly the opposite of everything the "text book" tells you !!

Trading index/fx you need to think like a smart money trader and either front run their lead, or back a retrace with a slightly wider stop (swinging, not scalping .... not a good scalper ) ...
trading stocks you need to understand the herd, and get out before the stampede is over........

just babbling on after a couple of ports, so disregard if I seem irrational

 

[Mr J]

I have been "learning" FX for quite a while now, and the concept of chasing big moves on either Index's or FX is, on most occasions, a fools game .....

It's only a fool's game for those that are fools. Opposite of the text book? Such as? I'm guessing you didn't mean that to be taken literally, otherwise I'd say that I don't want to be buying when the majority are selling.

It appears that the only opinion worth following on this forum in your view is your own?

No offense Tech, but you have been guilty of that.

Like i said i like to K.I.S.S.

Now wasnt that a boring read compared to all the nobs and whistle indicator posts out there .

Dom, fundamentals, 1min charts? That's fancy stuff Nun, I throw a line on a 4hr chart :.

 

[nunthewiser]

Dom, fundamentals, 1min charts? That's fancy stuff Nun, I throw a line on a 4hr chart :.

I was trying to impress ya

Various charts for various timeframes......no point looking at a weekly if ones trading ticks intraday in my view

 

[Timmy]

Re: Which two indicators would you use?

Right and left.
Sometimes simultaneously.
Sometimes even when I am turning.

 

[skc]

Re: Which two indicators would you use?

Right and left.
Sometimes simultaneously.
Sometimes even when I am turning.

Lol... in addition to right and left, I also regularly use:

- Stop and Reverse indicators. Red for stop, and white for reverse.
- MACD - Moving average consumption / distance. When this indicator hits zero I know that all momentum has been exhausted.

 

[nunthewiser]

Middle finger also works wonders in a pressurised situation

 

[Timmy]

Middle finger also works wonders in a pressurised situation

I find it works well as a guide to sentiment.

 

[tech/a]

10000 hrs and or 10000 charts wont guarentee success in any field.
But I put forward that it may well give you enough skill to survive in your chosen field of 10000 hrs of whatever it is your studying.

The field of view with regards to Outliers/Blackswans is indeed narrow on this thread if not the forum. Limited to penny stocks,an assumption which will soon become clear---is not my subject or intention.

Having 10000 hrs of experience wont insulate you from the unfortunate occurance of a negative Blackswan occurance or guarentee that you'll be on the end of a positive one.

But LIFE CHANGING occurances are often out of character events.
Sure long term planned events can also be life changing but for me and many I know Blackswan events have formed the world we (On a personal level) are in now in a few short years.

I'm no different to most here regardless of age.
I certainly was of the school ---"Result is equal to effort".
But when I look back on many life changing events particularly financial---results were and are very dis proportional to effort!

Often its a case of good fortune rather than good management. In my case it has been and could be seen as partially good management.

Some examples.

(1) At the time of developing techtrader I had no idea that it would be trading the next 7 yrs on absolute ideal conditions. $30K to $360K in that time.

(2) At around the same time I and others in my district began buying houses as we knew the new Southern Expressway was going to be constructed to our area. We/I had no idea that we were on the edge of the biggest Property boom ever.

(3) Currently.With the emergence of the GFC business looked under threat---un certainty. What I hadent considered was the government stimulas package and its affect on my business. with so much infrastructure now coming on line we have DOUBLED in size in the last 16 mths and still growing.

There are many hindsite examples.
Gold ---Radge was telling his clients to buy as far back as $375/ounce.
Oil --- few got the ride from $30-140.
AUD---Same for 55c to 98c
XAO index or SPI futures same for 6880 to 3200--- short. Yet I and many others closed all our long positions around the top of 6000 ish.


So some future possiblities.

(1) Short the DJIA using whatever vehical you want.Printing money can only lead to high inflation and the cycle goes on.
(2) Developement in property to satisfy a never ending demand.
(3) Liquidating assets to kill off debt as govt debt WILL give rise to inflation and increase in interest rates.
(4) Using that equity on freehold to build higher density housing and finally hold positively geared property which will keep abreast of inflation.

My point is.
ONE OUTLIER MOVE OR BLACKSWAN event can be life changing.
It only takes ONE.
Gold at $5 / .001c per ounce one contract from $375-1200 is serious money!--Life changing ---even a single Emini contract would be nothing to sneeze at.

You dont have to put yourself in a position of high risk.
You dont have to be a genius.

You do have to place yourself in a position where
(1) You avoid to the best of your abilities negative outlier moves.
(2) You place yourself in a position to take advantage of that Rare occurence and runs you over in the process.

I call it standing in front of Trains.
Nothing to do you'll note with Buying Penny stock---yet everything to do with buying Penny stock!

80/20 rule later but you'll note 20% of this thread has content and 80% is questionable.

 

[Trembling Hand]

I find it interesting that you are prepared to make so many assumptions prior to knowing the content of my contribution.

You are so prejudiced in your view that you can only see one argument (yours) which could be workable.

It appears that the only opinion worth following on this forum in your view is your own?

Oh! quite the contrary Tech. I have asked you every time that you bring up the 20/80 rule exactly how I would go about it in trading. I think from memory this is the third time. And your response is that 80% of my/your/anyone's profit comes from 20% of trades/effort/customer etc. YES! I get it. But you still haven't offered any reply to the "application of a rule of thumb" phenomena.

To me it sounds like 1990's MBA gumph. I too have had my fair share of biz experience and have seen that phenomena appear time and time again.

BUT

what I also know is that the 80% pays the bills to turn the machine over to enable you to benefit from the 20% that make the real cream. In biz, trading, sport and property. Please refute that for me?

Dont know about that.

Its the outlier moves or Black Swans which contain both the potential for life changing rags to riches stories--as well as the reverse.

Sure the age old and proven tested methodologies returning positive expectancy will generate consistent profit (Until conditions fall well outside your tested data set)---but changing profit comes from outliers. In Trading
Property
Business.

Placing yourself in "anticipation" of a move does work well as does taking yourself out of a position when the move either doesnt eventuate or is proven wrong.

And just on that Tech how much time have you spent in your pursuit of the outliers?

In the anticipation and the ability to recognise change?

My guess your whole working adult life.

Oh by the by. just as an example of why you get the **** you get. You haven't answered this one yet. A tactic that you like to do. Drop a quick one stating that someone is wrong but never return to it once challenged.

looking forward to seeing the true light.

 

[tech/a]

Oh! quite the contrary Tech. I have asked you every time that you bring up the 20/80 rule exactly how I would go about it in trading. I think from memory this is the third time. And your response is that 80% of my/your/anyone's profit comes from 20% of trades/effort/customer etc. YES! I get it. But you still haven't offered any reply to the "application of a rule of thumb" phenomena.

To me it sounds like 1990's MBA gumph. I too have had my fair share of biz experience and have seen that phenomena appear time and time again.

BUT

what I also know is that the 80% pays the bills to turn the machine over to enable you to benefit from the 20% that make the real cream. In biz, trading, sport and property. Please refute that for me?

Understanding that 80% of your effort in any one persuit will more likely return 20% of the result you want,gives rise to the thought and practical process of persuing and putting into place more of those things that return the 80% of result.

As an example in business we dropped all projects under $7K so we complete a lot less projects--our average project price has gone from 12K now to $56K (8 yrs latrer).

Oh by the by. just as an example of why you get the **** you get. You haven't answered this one yet. A tactic that you like to do. Drop a quick one stating that someone is wrong but never return to it once challenged.

looking forward to seeing the true light.

Dont see it as ****.

Pursuit of outliers hasnt been a conscious goal but the positioning of myself in line with possible opportunities which could result in outliers has become a more conscious endeavour.

 

[Trembling Hand]

10000 hrs and or 10000 charts wont guarantee success in any field.

Tech just on that one. Sorry mate I think you need to do some real research as to what the 10,000 hrs are and ecatly what you are trying to refute. May I suggest something that's not on the populist best sellers list and closer to actual research in the field. Start with the name K Anders Ericsson.

 

[tech/a]

Tech just on that one. Sorry mate I think you need to do some real research as to what the 10,000 hrs are and ecatly what you are trying to refute. May I suggest something that's not on the populist best sellers list and closer to actual research in the field. Start with the name K Anders Ericsson.

Just on that issue.

100s can complete their degree in any field (their 10000 hrs) only a handful become brilliant in their field.
Same with apprenticeships---there are Carpenters then there are tradesmen.
You get the idea.

I'm using the 10000 hrs as a point of reference.
My apologies if not appropriate.--to you.
Have meetings till lunch

 

[Trembling Hand]

Pursuit of outliers hasnt been a conscious goal but the positioning of myself in line with possible opportunities which could result in outliers has become a more conscious endeavour.

? Which has taken you how long to arrive at? Both in actual skill to enable proper execution and experience to recognise any such situation?

Same old tactic. You have not refuted the point that you initially disagreed with me. You have offered nothing yet as to why, one can skip experience and go straight to outliers.

It rewards hard work, testing & time, thous that skip these steps pay for the fortunes that the few that don't accumulate.

Dont know about that.
Its the outlier moves or Black Swans which contain both the potential for life changing rags to riches stories--as well as the reverse.

still nothin'

Just on that issue.

100s can complete their degree in any field (their 10000 hrs) only a handful become brilliant in their field.
Same with apprenticeships---there are Carpenters then there are tradesmen.
You get the idea.

But you don't. You canot use the 10,000 hours delipreative practise turned on its head to prove your point. lol.

 

[tech/a]

? Which has taken you how long to arrive at? Both in actual skill to enable proper execution and experience to recognise any such situation?

Same old tactic. You have not refuted the point that you initially disagreed with me. You have offered nothing yet as to why, one can skip experience and go straight to outliers.

More looked at it differently as a survival requirement rather than a guarentee of success.

still nothin'

But you don't. You canot use the 10,000 hours delipreative practise turned on its head to prove your point. lol.

My apologies.
I'll re word it then to extensive research and study.
Does that satisfy your requirement?