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Where is/can Donald Trump take US (sic)?

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moXJO said:
...the otherwise intelligent people who lap it up.
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People with good retention who learn by rote only, none with the capacity of critical thinking and reasonable debate.
 
And right on cue:

 

Well the problem is democracy isn't it? if you have a good democracy you don't need a revolution.
The different techniques to try to limit and twist the vote allow the oligarchs to slowly get control.
The use of "culture war" is a way of asserting control. I'm with IFocus on this.

It's a well known fact that 62% of Americans want universal healthcare instead of the present expensive and ruinous system. How come they can't get democracy?
 
We have universal healthcare. Yet there are people trying to block guys like jordan peterson. Look at Canada, its like ground zero for idiotic activism.
 
You want to talk oligarchs. Ok lets talk google, facebook, twitter and other tech.
Facebook in particular is trying to bring out its own currency. Is tapped into governments around the world and routinely flouting laws.
Google in particular is driving to change election outcomes through targeted use of information and funding.
 
Communities decide what the progress of culture is not some obscure intellectual or universities etc....communities accept or reject and it different for different communities just like it always has been long before agrarian society kicked off.
As for the brain washing bit that starts very young preparing the peasants to accept the overlords as our savours stick with that model if you like and enjoy the bread crumbs

The culture BS is the wrong war and that's deliberate.

The health care example Knobby points out is a really in your face stark example.
 
IFocus said:
As for the brain washing bit that starts very young preparing the peasants to accept the overlords as our savours stick with that model if you like and enjoy the bread crumbs
.
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I think you just have to take the last election, and the use of school kids, to verify brainwashing.
If that isn't enough to convince you, then just watch any current affairs or social debate programme, there is plenty of social engineering going on.
 
Some good points.

But IMO the culture war is the current cold war. Its a precursor to a different battle, so I believe it is an important fight TBH.
 


Really Moxjo ? "Trumps not a bloody threat " In terms of being brain washed that has to be the clearest sign of a person who has swallowed the MAGA lie hook line and sinker.
 
The Power of Trump. How to destroy diplomacy in one foul swoop

Go back to anywhere, anytime and nations/empires recognise the need to establish diplomats or envoys to negotiate with other other parties. In the rules of diplomacy you don't expect diplomats from other countries to love you. They have to be nice to your face of course (that's diplomatic...) but their job is to take clear information back to their leaders to digest and respond.

When Donald Trump decides to destroy an allies chief diplomat becasue of a leaked private conversation he is trashing the basis of 20th Century diplomacy. In Britain's case he is looking to establish a vassal state.

Kim Darroch has resigned. Now Britain risks becoming a vassal of the US
Martin Kettle

The chief of Britain’s Foreign Office does nothing casually. He is a past master at saying nothing unintended in public. So when the Foreign Office permanent secretary, Simon McDonald, went before MPs this lunchtime after the devastating resignation of Britain’s Washington ambassador, Kim Darroch, his incisive directness was a revelation. It was the most eloquent evidence possible that the Darroch affair is not just a diplomatic storm but an existential challenge to Britain’s entire foreign policy.

What precedent was there, the foreign affairs committee chair Tom Tugendhat asked McDonald straight off, for the head of state of a friendly government to do what Donald Trump has done this week and make it impossible for Britain’s senior representative in that country to do his job? McDonald’s answer was monosyllabic, crisp and explosive. “None,” he said.

Labour’s Chris Bryant followed up. Surely there were precedents from unfriendly countries such as Venezuela? “I know of none,” McDonald replied again. Not even hostile states have behaved like Trump, he insisted. Had there been some distant occasion when a British ambassador fell foul of the White House in such a way? There was, McDonald admitted, a “difficulty” in 1856, when President Franklin Pierce accused the British ambassador of recruiting Americans to fight in the Crimean war. The listeners in committee room 16 laughed, but McDonald did not.

And then came in many ways the most extraordinary remark of the lot. “Nothing like this has ever happened before,” McDonald told another MP. “There must be consequences. What they are in detail I can’t tell you this afternoon.”
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ritain-risks-becoming-vassal-to-united-states
 
One *fell* swoop, @basilio.

And apart from the embarrassing malapropism, that analysis is bullsh/t... even more embarrassingly a symptom of TDS.

The ambassador fxcked up, facilitated by whomever leaked it.

The more interesting question is who leaked it, and what was their motive?
 
wayneL said:
One *fell* swoop, @basilio.
The ambassador fxcked up, ?

The more interesting question is who leaked it, and what was their motive?
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Che ? In what universe does the diplomat "fxck up" when telling his government in a secure coded message his clear view of the capacities of other politicians ? I'd be totally confident that every diplomat would offer frank and fearless observations where necessary. And in Donald Trumps case they would all say much the same thing. It would be a total failure on their part not to be so clear.

The motive behind the leak ? The Russians trying to destabilize UK ? Brexit politicians who want to get rid of a significant pro EU diplomat ? Wannabe PM's who want to create a public service in their image (as Donald Trump does) ?

The police have been called in and apparently it might not be too hard to finger the culprit.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-trump-darroch-new-phase-special-relationship
 
Yet, the US economy steams on better than ever.

...and, stop quoting that biased commie sh/trag, The Guardian, if you want any credible analysis. It's not good for your TDS pathology.
 
wayneL said:
Yet, the US economy steams on better than ever.

...and, stop quoting that biased commie sh/trag, The Guardian, if you want any credible analysis. It's not good for your TDS pathology.
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I don't see how "The US economy steams on.. ect B/S" has anything to do with undermining international diplomacy. Do you have anything intelligent to say on the topic ?
 
basilio said:
I don't see how "The US economy steams on.. ect B/S" has anything to do with undermining international diplomacy. Do you have anything intelligent to say on the topic ?
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It goes to the competence of the administration, basilio. This was the substance of the leaked email, now wasn't it?

If there are any diplomatic failure is it is on the part of the British administration. It is them that has made the relationship between the ambassador and the Trump administration untenable.

It is only someone with a rabid Trump derangement syndrome that could possibly make all of this Trumps fault. Therefore if you're looking for someone to cast aspersions upon their intelligence, look no further than your mirror.
 
Diplomats are supposed to be diplomatic aren't they ?

Getting emotional about Trump and calling him names does nothing to help the situation.

Don't people realise these days that any form of electronic communication can be hacked or leaked ? Like all microphones are open.

The UK ambassador to the US made a mistake by putting such language in an email and he paid the price.

But yes the UK has a bigger issue, who leaked the email and why. We could also ask who leaked Trump's call with Malcolm Turnbull about the refugee deal.

Confidentiality isn't what it used to be.
 
SirRumpole said:
We could also ask who leaked Trump's call with Malcolm Turnbull about the refugee deal.
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Ok ... I admit it.
I thought it was rude of some idiot president to scream at our PM and then HANG up on him .... and when they eventually met, he was 45 minutes late.

We act ... for OUR interests, our nations and our peoples, as did the ambassador for the UK ... he is the man on the ground and able to give a frank view of what they as a nation, the UK is dealing with.

Trump, had his media meeting today and he ... is becoming more unhinged when he doesn't invite even twitter.

If someone told me ... a USA president would communicate via twitter and verbally abuse, mock those fleeing persecution and even threaten war so far on 3 nations, whilst actually killing in 6 nations and supporting the Yemen genocide of 300,000 people in 2019 all for arms sales ...

I would have ... actually told you you were nuts to suggest that in 2016. A person actually having a tantrum on twitter ? A psychotic break during an interview ? So many cases of projections accusing someone of doing something, they just did ?

Hopefully some other leaks come out on how the relations of this maniac are seen by other nations.
 
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There is nothing untoward about diplomats/politicians/whoever saying what they observe of other politicians in the course of their private reports.

There is absolutely nothing out of line with a diplomat reporting his frank unvarnished observation of what he sees in another country. The British diplomat was in fact reporting what he he both saw and heard and the observations of others in the White House. There are plenty of Trump ex ministers who called him a moron, unhinged, etc.

Somebody decided to embarrass the diplomat by scanning his confidential emails, picking out the choicest comments over a a 2 year period and leaking them to the Mail.

It was Trumps decision to abuse Kim Darroch for doing his job and then deciding he would not accept him as a diplomat that has undermined international diplomacy. In the broad spectrum of tearing up international agreements, attempting to overthrow unfriendly governments, starting trade wars , destroying the trust of long term allies and promoting the rise of extreme right wing nationalists around the world this is just small potatoes. Maybe.
 
I wonder if it was Hillary what you'd think, bas. I would gamble it would be very different.
 
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