Where is/can Donald Trump take US (sic)?

bellenuit said:

I think the key is the GOP. So long as they see him as capable of doing their bidding, he has a chance of surviving. But if the GOP start to see him as a liability, it is all over.

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CNN agrees with me on this.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/07/...blican-party-turn-on-trump-zelizer/index.html

I wonder...
What would happen if Rex Tillerman and many of the other people sacked by Trump decide to do a series of interviews about how the Trump administration worked (or didn't work )? They could be broadcast across all the media rather than one network. A collaborative effort.

They basically just decide that the countries interest and their self respect needed to come ahead of Donald Trump.
It would be unprecedented but the behaviour of this President has also been totally unprecedented.

Perhaps this would be sufficient to finally turn the GOP on Donald Trump before he burns them all.

What hasn't got much attention in the Australian media today is that Trump's own justice department (not Mueller) implicated him in a felony yesterday. Skip to the 3:50 mark.

Prosecutors’ Narrative Is Clear: Trump Defrauded Voters. But What Does It Mean?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/08/us/politics/trump-mueller-cohen-manafort.html

The Russian connections are starting to become clearer...

Anyone think all the instability Trump causes is the reason for the Markets lacking confidence? Not just the trade wars etc but the lack of confidence in his integrity flows elsewhere.

Darc Knight said:

Anyone think all the instability Trump causes is the reason for the Markets lacking confidence? Not just the trade wars etc but the lack of confidence in his integrity flows elsewhere.

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The markets probably think he will be impeached sooner or later, and the US will be heading into a policy black hole with no one knowing what is going on.

Fear is taking over from greed.

Darc Knight said:

Anyone think all the instability Trump causes is the reason for the Markets lacking confidence? Not just the trade wars etc but the lack of confidence in his integrity flows elsewhere.

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There's the threat of the US gov't shutdown next few days if Trump don't get $5B for his wall. If they go to shutdown, federal employees will either work for no pay or send home. That should work out well for the xmas retail, general paying the bills kinda economic stuff.

There's also the Yellow Vest protests spreading across Europe. The French plebs kinda put a dent on the Xmas shopping/tourism business back a couple billions Euro so far. Macron was forced to promise he'll not steal so much from them... at least not that directly anyway, I mean, come on... he should know that you tax them plebs by cutting their "entitlements" and "subsidies"... luxury stuff like discount travel passes for school kids and pensioners.

Then there's the trade war with China. Though that's just a tax on US consumers and a way to force Beijing to open up its financial/banking industries to US innovation.

Basically, the masses have little to no cash. They've maxed out their credit cards. Property prices have been dropping, driving home the illusory wealth being just debt and more debt... So not a whole lot of demand for anything beside them luxury yachts and Hermes handbags kinda goods.

Buckle up Batman. IT's gonna get real ugly, real soon.

SirRumpole said:

The markets probably think he will be impeached sooner or later, and the US will be heading into a policy black hole with no one knowing what is going on.

Fear is taking over from greed.

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Heard that Trump's former National Security Advisor Gen. Flynn agreed to help the FBI in their investigation to reduced sentences.

Rumour has it he already told the FBI that boy genius Kushner ordered Flynn to do those things that got him into trouble with the FBI in the first place.

SirRumpole said:

The markets probably think he will be impeached sooner or later, and the US will be heading into a policy black hole with no one knowing what is going on.

Fear is taking over from greed.

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There will be no impeachment.

I also don't think you know what impeachment actually means.

Additionally, any attempt would be political suicide for the Democrats. And I don't even think the Democrats are that stupid

wayneL said:

There will be no impeachment.

I also don't think you know what impeachment actually means.

Additionally, any attempt would be political suicide for the Democrats. And I don't even think the Democrats are that stupid

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You have to give Trump one thing, he has balls, they have thrown everything but the kitchen sink at him and he is still sticking it up China.
He reminds me of a policeman, everyone hates them, yet they still keep turning up to do a thankless job. People only like them, when they realise they need them.
Just my opinion, and I'll be told it's worth what I charge for it.

sptrawler said:

You have to give Trump one thing, he has balls, they have thrown everything but the kitchen sink at him and he is still sticking it up China.

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Any thoughts that sticking up China could be the cause of the stock market crash ?

SirRumpole said:

Any thoughts that sticking up China could be the cause of the stock market crash ?

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Does that really matter, in the scheme of things?
Or do you just sit back, and let companies send manufacturing to where the cheapest labour is.
Then let them reverse engineer your technology, and sell your product in a different wrapper for half the price, back to you.
While we sit back and complain that we are losing our first World economy.
Well actually we do exactly that, I wonder who is really upset with Trump?
Wouldn't be the 'powers that be', would it?
Who has the most to lose, it isn't the U.S worker, it could be the businesses making mega bucks off shore, it could also be China unless they come to some sort of agreement.
Just my opinion as usual.

sptrawler said:

Well actually we do exactly that, I wonder who is really upset with Trump?

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Everyone with a pension fund or hoping to retire on share earnings.

But yes, China is ripping everyone off. Is there a better way to handle it ? Don't know.

I sort of think that there is going to be a split between the West and Russia/China in trading terms because it's untenable trusting China because everything they do has political/defence/military purposes. But Trump shows no signs of trying to forge a Western alliance against China, it's just America first and stuff everyone else.

SirRumpole said:

Everyone with a pension fund or hoping to retire on share earnings.

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They have a lot more to worry about from silly Billy, than from the stock market correction.

The stock market will come back, what Billy takes off them won't.

SirRumpole said:

I sort of think that there is going to be a split between the West and Russia/China in trading terms because it's untenable trusting China because everything they do has political/defence/military purposes. But Trump shows no signs of trying to forge a Western alliance against China, it's just America first and stuff everyone else.

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The biggest problem for the West is, China is taking the Wests manufacturing base and Russia is supplying Europe with its fuel.
It won't end well, unless someone like Trump, calls it as it is.
There is a lot of money to be lost by businesses, having to return manufacturing to the U.S, but the U.S will be a basket case like us unless they do.
Also having an alliance with a nation, that relies on the the opposition for their energy supply, is fraught with danger. IMO

sptrawler said:

Does that really matter, in the scheme of things?
Or do you just sit back, and let companies send manufacturing to where the cheapest labour is.
Then let them reverse engineer your technology, and sell your product in a different wrapper for half the price, back to you.
While we sit back and complain that we are losing our first World economy.
Well actually we do exactly that, I wonder who is really upset with Trump?
Wouldn't be the 'powers that be', would it?
Who has the most to lose, it isn't the U.S worker, it could be the businesses making mega bucks off shore, it could also be China unless they come to some sort of agreement.
Just my opinion as usual.

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Funny enough I was listening to one of Chomsky's early 90s talk where he discusses US corporations offshoring of jobs through NAFTA and other "Free Trade" treaties.

That is, US (western) corporations and their owners do not see themselves as "Americans" or "Australians" or whatever. They're capitalists and the whole of the world is theirs to play with. Especially so after the collapse of the Soviet Union where Western corporations move into Eastern Europe and set about enslaving their workers.

There's the Mexicans just south of the US borders; the richer Western Europeans move East... then the rise of the Asian tigers, the Chinese opening up in the late 80s.

It's all to chase cheap labour, lax environmental protection, tax and all that bad stuff holding back progress (and profit).

What the yanks didn't count on was China not willing to sell out their national interests. I mean, the comrades got families who want to be billionaires too.

With enough cash and capital; plenty of JVs and partnership where tech can be gleaned and improved then Sino-fied; with 1B+ peasants the comrades better find work for as there's not enough prison (like the US) to lock them all up... China is too independent to take orders. Hence this trade war in hope of getting them to change their mind.

Saw a US 60 Minutes on Huawei where this American, from memory, CEO of a small time IT/internet company awarded Huawei the install its 4G system. He got a visit from the FBI, saying he should have used American made hardware for security etc.

He said Americans don't make these stuff anymore. Only 5 companies in the world makes them; two are Chinese... and theirs the cheapest and fastest.

Huawei is the world's largest mobile manufacturer; it has the best 5G technology in the world. Other non-US aligned countries loading up on it.

As to intelligence gathering... I'm sure all tech companies leave a few backdoor opens for their gov't to collect data. That's how you grease the wheel of commerce right?

luutzu said:

Funny enough I was listening to one of Chomsky's early 90s talk where he discusses US corporations offshoring of jobs through NAFTA and other "Free Trade" treaties.

That is, US (western) corporations and their owners do not see themselves as "Americans" or "Australians" or whatever. They're capitalists and the whole of the world is theirs to play with. Especially so after the collapse of the Soviet Union where Western corporations move into Eastern Europe and set about enslaving their workers.

There's the Mexicans just south of the US borders; the richer Western Europeans move East... then the rise of the Asian tigers, the Chinese opening up in the late 80s.

It's all to chase cheap labour, lax environmental protection, tax and all that bad stuff holding back progress (and profit).

What the yanks didn't count on was China not willing to sell out their national interests. I mean, the comrades got families who want to be billionaires too.

With enough cash and capital; plenty of JVs and partnership where tech can be gleaned and improved then Sino-fied; with 1B+ peasants the comrades better find work for as there's not enough prison (like the US) to lock them all up... China is too independent to take orders. Hence this trade war in hope of getting them to change their mind.

Saw a US 60 Minutes on Huawei where this American, from memory, CEO of a small time IT/internet company awarded Huawei the install its 4G system. He got a visit from the FBI, saying he should have used American made hardware for security etc.

He said Americans don't make these stuff anymore. Only 5 companies in the world makes them; two are Chinese... and theirs the cheapest and fastest.

Huawei is the world's largest mobile manufacturer; it has the best 5G technology in the world. Other non-US aligned countries loading up on it.

As to intelligence gathering... I'm sure all tech companies leave a few backdoor opens for their gov't to collect data. That's how you grease the wheel of commerce right?

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You are spot on Luu, I think the U.S is farting against thunder, China will become a law unto itself in the end.
They have the money, the motivation and a population hungry for affluence.
The West is fat, lazy and lack appreciation.
If Trump didn't have money, he would have already been bashed into submission, you can see his missus just wants him to chuck it in.
If Trump can't get a deal organised with China, we will be in deep manure IMO.

sptrawler said:

You are spot on Luu, I think the U.S is farting against thunder, China will become a law unto itself in the end.
They have the money, the motivation and a population hungry for affluence.
The West is fat, lazy and lack appreciation.
If Trump didn't have money, he would have already been bashed into submission, you can see his missus just wants him to chuck it in.
If Trump can't get a deal organised with China, we will be in deep manure IMO.

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China looks like it'll rule the world this 21st century. That's if we don't go nuclear anyway.

I guess they learn a lot from various failed states and empire since WWII under US influence. Seeing how they also got a few nukes, now the technology and the capital... they just do whatever the heck they want.

You heard how Canada took Hauwei's CFO [and daughter of the founder] daughter into custody, awaiting extradition to the US for daring to cover up Huawei's sales to Iran against US sanction?

Well, China just took 3 Canadian into custody for this and that crime against the people of China.

Soon enough they might stop importing maple syrups too


I don't think the average Western employees are lazy or demand too much. I mean sure, we're being pay generally pretty well compare to the average Chinese labourer. But given the cost of living, barely making ends meet.

So unless the cost of living drops like a rock, Western labour will always be more expensive than those in poorer countries. But they're not luxurious as they're made out to be.

Just saw Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 11/9. He showed how school teachers in West Virginia [?] and across many southern states there are so poorly paid they qualify for food stamps. Many take up part time work after school just to pay the bill.

Again in one of the early 90s lecture, Chomsky was describing American infant/children being treated for malnourishment. He was predicting that the US [and I'm guessing the West] is heading towards a third world style economy and social structure where 10% of the population does pretty well and the rest are screwed.

Juding by today's stats, he was too optimistic to think that it wouldn't be as bad a the third world as the US is a very rich country with many rights having been won... But the headlines, and that Michael Moore doc... Kids and seniors going to bed hungry; some 3000 cities not having clean drinking water; failing infrastructure; systematic privatisation of everything...

The US is so corrupt it's almost on par with China. At least the Chinese peasants have a manufacturing base they can find a job that pays the bill.

But to be fair, the yanks still have their guns and their freedom though. So a bit of organising and things might turn around.

Luu, it looks as though China, wants to check out possible buys in Australia.
Nothing like really going through the books.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-...r-industrial-scale-theft-20181221-p50nl0.html

Maybe Donald isn't as full of BS, as they keep saying, sooner or later the penny will drop with the masses. IMO