Where in the hell is Australia heading?

[trainspotter]

Well who'd have thought Fabian's ....never heard of them in CQ .... but jesuuuus now I'm scared after reserching them.... hey where's Stargazer?

Mining minerals from Mars.

 

[Julia]

I would prefer if Government threw money at not yet viable alternatives compared to fossil fuels as: wave, wind, solar, geothermal in a form of incentives rather than tax some, give some tax equivalent to do nothing so they are not worse off.

Agree.

But with Green vote ever increasing it is possible that Green / Labor coalition with few so called independents will always form majority from now on.

I don't think it's actually increasing is it? I'd thought it was pretty static.

I teach some medical students, and indoctrinated is a very appropriate word. Even these so-called independent thinkers are brainwashed by the system, and that has probably only been around since their secondary education.

That's interesting, Medicowallet. Even though these are specifically medical students, they're still spouting AGW mantras? How do they do this in the context of their learning from you?
Do you think they are being specifically taught this stuff, or rather are they just absorbing it from the overall Left bias of universities?

 

[sails]

Australia seems to be heading further and further away from Labor. Latest Roy Morgan poll out since Carbon Sunday:

"...July 13/14, 2011 shows the L-NP 60.5% with a record winning lead over the ALP 39.5% - the worst Two-Party preferred voting result for Labor since the first Roy Morgan Gallup Poll conducted in May 1942.

The L-NP primary vote is 52.5%, nearly double the ALP 27.5%. Support for the minor parties shows the Greens 10.5% and Others/ Independents 9.5%."​

The last poll by Morgan was a week ago just prior to Carbon Sunday and showed 2pp L-NP (56%) leading the ALP (44%). Greens don't seem to be gaining from what I can see.

More details and graph here: http://www.roymorgan.com/

 

[basilio]

That's interesting, Medicowallet. Even though these are specifically medical students, they're still spouting AGW mantras? How do they do this in the context of their learning from you?
Do you think they are being specifically taught this stuff, or rather are they just absorbing it from the overall Left bias of universities? Julia

Well could be because they are highly intelligent people for a start. Being medical students they recognise the value of the scientific approach to problems and overall the general validity of the scientists who lead understanding of medical progress.

In that context they are very unlikely to accept that the overwhelmingly majority of climate scientists( essentially similar to medical scientists but working in another field ) are somehow corrupt or completely wrong about such a critical issue.

 

[todster]

Happy to converse with the logical. It is the tolerance thing I need to work on.

View attachment 43648

Wow your Mrs is hot

 

[Logique]

I would prefer if Government threw money at not yet viable alternatives compared to fossil fuels as: wave, wind, solar, geothermal in a form of incentives rather than tax some, give some tax equivalent to do nothing so they are not worse off.
What they do now is further tilt the LEVEL PLAYING FIELD toward Third World Countries.
Hope this can be reveses come 2013 elections.
But with Green vote ever increasing it is possible that Green / Labor coalition with few so called independents will always form majority from now on.
Let's not forget that close to million new Australians a year will also become voters in not so distant future and their sympathy will be toward party that accepted them.

Broadly agree Happy. With the Green vote, it seems steady at around 12%. What will change at the next election is that, Victorian style, the majors will place the Greens last on their how-to-vote cards, which will make a difference.

Number one, putting Australia back on an even keel will be a two election process. A normal election followed by a double dissolution to rid the Senate of the Fabians and watermelons. The Coalition needs to bring this to the notice of the electorate.

Number two is to put the cleaners through the ABC and reinstate some balance. Number three is to put the cleaners through the child indoctrination system now loosely termed 'education'. Number four is to review the funding of politically partisan organizations working (in my view) against the interests of the nation. Starting with the Aust Conserv Foundation and especially GetUp. A pretty poor return on the taxpayers' investments in them.

In the Illawarra a few of years ago, there was a lot of publicity about a wave energy machine being developed. In one of the initial trial runs it broke free of the moorings and sank to the bottom, never to be seen again. But for all of that, I hope wave energy isn't 'thrown out with the bathwater'.

 

[Smurf1976]

In that context they are very unlikely to accept that the overwhelmingly majority of climate scientists( essentially similar to medical scientists but working in another field ) are somehow corrupt or completely wrong about such a critical issue.

Medicine suffers the same fundamental problem as climate and many other fields. If serious diseases were easily cured then that will send the major "treatment" (as distinct from "cure") drug companies broke real fast as well as putting many doctors out of work. Just as climate scientists are out of a job if they don't demonstrate that there is something worth researching.

I have a lot of respect for individual doctors, but I'm well aware of the realities of the drug companies and the management of private (and increasingly public) health care providers. Profit comes first, second and third. That being so, it's probable that medical students are not taught to challenge the system in the same way that virtually nobody is taught Austrian economics as part of a formal education.

It's the same with most things. You won't find politicians (many of whom are ex lawyers) simplifying the law into plain english anytime soon. If it was simple and easy to understand then that would put a lot of lawyers out of work...

And yes, I'll say it, the trades do the same thing. Plenty of rules, regulations and product designs done for no reason other than to make it difficult for anyone outside the trade to do the work. Australia is an extreme example of this one, with even relatively simple tasks officially off-limits to the home handyman with serious penalties if caught.

We live in a world where most industries at least attempt to protect their interests and secure future work. I find it hard to believe that this thinking wouldn't also apply to climate science and medicine - if it doesn't then they would seem to be the only exceptions which is unlikely.

 

[Calliope]

Where is Australia heading? GFC2 with bells on. Where is the stimulus money going to come from this time? The coffers have been drained.

If the sh*t hits the fan in the USA and they cut back on Chinese imports. China cuts back production. China cuts back on imports of coal and iron ore. We become another Greece.

And Gillard is worrying about pricing Carbon.

 

[drsmith]

Australia seems to be heading further and further away from Labor. Latest Roy Morgan poll out since Carbon Sunday:

"...July 13/14, 2011 shows the L-NP 60.5% with a record winning lead over the ALP 39.5% - the worst Two-Party preferred voting result for Labor since the first Roy Morgan Gallup Poll conducted in May 1942.

The L-NP primary vote is 52.5%, nearly double the ALP 27.5%. Support for the minor parties shows the Greens 10.5% and Others/ Independents 9.5%."​

The last poll by Morgan was a week ago just prior to Carbon Sunday and showed 2pp L-NP (56%) leading the ALP (44%). Greens don't seem to be gaining from what I can see.

More details and graph here: http://www.roymorgan.com/

How long now before panic within the ALP ranks ?

The trend is not their friend.

 

[noco]

As I have mentioned in previous posts, the idiology of this Green/Labor coalition left wing socialist government is to gain control of the media to avoid criticism.

Both Gillard and her pseudo Prime Minister Brown are attempting to have an enquiry into modus operandi of the Australian media, exploting the problems that currently exists in England.

If they do succeed in having an enquiry, you can bet your boots they will try to vet every news item and forum to suit themselves and only their own propaganda will be allowed. This smells of communism all the way down the line.

They are a sneaky lot. Be afraid. Be very afraid.


http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/Gillard-and-Brown-are-shootin-the-messenger/

 

[Julia]

Australia seems to be heading further and further away from Labor. Latest Roy Morgan poll out since Carbon Sunday:

Thanks for that, sails. Must be sending panic through Labor ranks.
An anomaly is the slight rise in consumer confidence.

Well could be because they are highly intelligent people for a start. Being medical students they recognise the value of the scientific approach to problems and overall the general validity of the scientists who lead understanding of medical progress.

In that context they are very unlikely to accept that the overwhelmingly majority of climate scientists( essentially similar to medical scientists but working in another field ) are somehow corrupt or completely wrong about such a critical issue.

Smurf has very appropriately addressed this.

As I have mentioned in previous posts, the idiology of this Green/Labor coalition left wing socialist government is to gain control of the media to avoid criticism.

Both Gillard and her pseudo Prime Minister Brown are attempting to have an enquiry into modus operandi of the Australian media, exploting the problems that currently exists in England.

If they do succeed in having an enquiry, you can bet your boots they will try to vet every news item and forum to suit themselves and only their own propaganda will be allowed. This smells of communism all the way down the line.

Agree that this is really concerning. However, I think the strength and determination of most of the media will revolt in no uncertain terms if this goes too far. They are still privately owned organisations and can write whatever they like in an editorial sense.

The sickening hypocrisy from Mr Brown means he would have zero intention of altering the bias of the ABC!

 

[todster]

As I have mentioned in previous posts, the idiology of this Green/Labor coalition left wing socialist government is to gain control of the media to avoid criticism.

Both Gillard and her pseudo Prime Minister Brown are attempting to have an enquiry into modus operandi of the Australian media, exploting the problems that currently exists in England.

If they do succeed in having an enquiry, you can bet your boots they will try to vet every news item and forum to suit themselves and only their own propaganda will be allowed. This smells of communism all the way down the line.

They are a sneaky lot. Be afraid. Be very afraid.


http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/Gillard-and-Brown-are-shootin-the-messenger/

I would think controling the media with the NBN would be even more difficult sunshine.

 

[sptrawler]

I would think controling the media with the NBN would be even more difficult sunshine.

Why do you say that todster? When it all goes through the Governments internet filter.

 

[todster]

Why do you say that todster? When it all goes through the Governments internet filter.

Get a 10year old to hack it

 

[noco]

Thanks for that, sails. Must be sending panic through Labor ranks.
An anomaly is the slight rise in consumer confidence.


Smurf has very appropriately addressed this.


Agree that this is really concerning. However, I think the strength and determination of most of the media will revolt in no uncertain terms if this goes too far. They are still privately owned organisations and can write whatever they like in an editorial sense.

The sickening hypocrisy from Mr Brown means he would have zero intention of altering the bias of the ABC!

Julia, now that the Greens have the power in both houses, they could try to bring in legislation to heavily fine or imprison any media who break their rules.
Don't underestimate the power of Brown ATM.

 

[noco]

Are we heading for another financial crisis? The link from West Pac indicates we are deteriorating faster than ever.

Perhaps we are heading for the Keating 'BANANA REPUBLIC' status.

How in the hell is this inept Green/Labor socialist left wing government going to cope when the barrell of money is now empty?

Perhaps, this is what they want.



http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-economy-falters/story-e6freon6-1226095715961

 

[joea]

Hi!
I would like to think that behind the scene, something is starting to happen that every Australian will not have to endure this pain and agony any more.!!!
I do not know what is happening, but I must have faith that it is.

Surely we do not have to endure this to the next nominated election.

joea

 

[trainspotter]

Hi!
I would like to think that behind the scene, something is starting to happen that every Australian will not have to endure this pain and agony any more.!!!
I do not know what is happening, but I must have faith that it is.

Surely we do not have to endure this to the next nominated election.

joea

Not sure what you mean joea? The 44th government will not be elected until 27th September 2013 at the latest. It is doubtful a double dissolution will occur as this will only make the Gillard government's precarious House position worse as they would be giving up seats (and more than likely government) I can't see why the Gillard government would work at creating double dissolution triggers, let alone even considering asking the Governor General to call a double dissolution. Afterall she is Bill Shortens mother in law.

The LNP do not have the numbers to cause blockage at Senate level and the Independents have already sworn an oath of alliegance to Gillard & Co. Under the provisions of the Constitution, the last possible date for a double dissolution in the current term is 27 March 2013, which probably means the Coalition would need to take government by around the middle of 2012 to give itself time to arrange a double dissolution trigger. (if Gillard does call a DD)

Whatever happens in the House or to the Prime Ministership, the Senators taking their places on 1 July 2011 will be there until 30 June 2017, and the Senators who took their seats on 1 July 2008 will be there until 30 June 2014. The only Senators that an early House election could change would be the four Territory Senators, whose terms are tied to the term of each House of Representatives.

Here is a link tht provides a list of these Seantors who have terms of service commencing 1st July 2011 ... http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/senators_elect.htm

Even a good old fashioned assssination will not work as this will only cause Wayne Swan into the box seat and more than likely either Albanese or Shorten catapulted into Deputy PM.

So in it's current form we are well and truly copulated in the sphincter muscle for quite some time to come.

The next federal election
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/bn/pol/HungParliaments.htm#_Toc282588848

In its agreements with the Australian Greens and with Tony Windsor and Robert Oakeshott the Government has agreed that the 43rd Parliament ‘should serve its full term’. [19] The agreement with Windsor and Oakeshott further specifies that ‘the next election will be held on a date to be agreed in September or October 2013’.

*massive sigh*

 

[Julia]

The LNP do not have the numbers to cause blockage at Senate level and the Independents have already sworn an oath of alliegance to Gillard & Co. Under the provisions of the Constitution, the last possible date for a double dissolution in the current term is 27 March 2013, which probably means the Coalition would need to take government by around the middle of 2012 to give itself time to arrange a double dissolution trigger. (if Gillard does call a DD)

All true. No way will Gillard call for an election, ordinary or DD, because to do so would be to ensure her own immediate demise.

Whatever happens in the House or to the Prime Ministership, the Senators taking their places on 1 July 2011 will be there until 30 June 2017, and the Senators who took their seats on 1 July 2008 will be there until 30 June 2014.

But if Tony Abbott wins the next election, having gone to this election on rescinding the carbon tax, he can then propose to legislate this, and if the legislation is rejected twice (I think it's twice?) then he can call a double dissolution election.
If we were to come to this stage, it's going to be very, very likely that some of those new Greens senators would be thrown out and the Greens would in the new parliament no longer have the balance of power.

I simply can't see an early election happening this term, but do think there's hope for the above scenario if the Libs win the next election. They will have to be extremely clear about going to the election with the rescinding of the carbon tax being their main platform. Unless a lot changes between now and then, it's hard to see them not winning in a landslide.

 

[trainspotter]

But if Tony Abbott wins the next election, having gone to this election on rescinding the carbon tax, he can then propose to legislate this, and if the legislation is rejected twice (I think it's twice?) then he can call a double dissolution election.
If we were to come to this stage, it's going to be very, very likely that some of those new Greens senators would be thrown out and the Greens would in the new parliament no longer have the balance of power.

This would take the dissolution of both houses. Politically possible but I cannot see this happening. The deal that the Inds and Greens did with Julia is enforcable til Sept - Oct 2013. So not likely for an election prior to this date. Let's say Libs do win in a landslide and a DD is called (this would take about 9 months for the blockage of legislation before a DD can be called BTW) then the time it would take to go back to the polls would be June 2014 at the earliest.

Many, many constitutional challenges will be required to get the GG to allow such a thing to happen. It would be unprecedented in Australias political history as well. Their best hope is to go to the 2013 election with a landslide and wait for the half Senate election for Senators sitting placements ending 1 July 2014. If the anger amongst the voting people remains the same then it is possible that the majority rule of Labor/Green would be broken.

On repealing the Carbon Tax thingy my biggest concern would how much compensation will be sought from the polluters who had bought permits for future years in the expectation that permit prices would rise would have to be compensated for their suddenly worthless permits. There would also be firms would have a property right vested in their tradeable permits, which the government would then have to acquire on just terms. The list goes on and on.

Hmmmmmmmmmm ........ the politics of it all.