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And send the miners to Brazil our major competitor for iron ore thus cutting off your nose to spite you face? Brilliant plan my small Green offshoot. I can't wait til they get into power.
You had better go look at your text books young gun.
You are not quite with it this evening are you? Do you think a mining company would let their infrastructure fall into a state of disrepair because of it's life expectancy? They would have packed up and high tailed it out of there long before this has happened. LOL
Are you David Attenborough now? The death of a species? JEEEEEEZUZ CHRIST for a smart educated fellow you are not very globally aware of the big picture stuff are you?
I do understand the point you are making.Not really. Miners do not generate massive profits because of any unique skills or innovations. Miners are getting rich because they are selling something which belongs to every single Australian. Every single Australian should as such benefit from this to a significant extent, because what is being sold are non-renewable, very valuable resources - the export of which devalues the wealth of our entire country permanently more and more.
I do understand the point you are making.
Consider the following however. We can export some bauxite for $50. Or we could turn it into alumina and export it for $250. Or we could turn it into aluminium metal and export it for $1000.
$50 or $1000? Which one is providing the best return on that ore in the ground for Australia? I'd argue it's certainly the $1000 given that much of that value created is spent locally (other materials, labour, energy etc) and that at least some of the profits will remain in Australia as well. Not perfect perhaps, but it beats selling it for $50.
And the carbon tax? Well there's $250 worth of electricity (at wholesale rates) in that $1000 of aluminium. Add a carbon tax and now we're looking at $400 for the electricity. Once you add in all the other costs (eg labour, building the plant in the first place, reasonable profit etc) then the tax starts to squeeze things rather a bit, especially considering that similar operations overseas won't be paying any such tax. And of course if the tax goes up, or an ETS pushes the cost up, then it starts to look even worse.
Yes, I know there's compensation for these industries. But that reduces over the years whilst the cost of emitting carbon will rise. And it's not at all clear that if someone builds a brand new factory tomorrow then do they qualify for compensation? If not then they'll be building overseas.
Cheap energy and the ability to add major value to our minerals is a key asset for Australia. I just don't see the point of shutting down processing and selling for $50 what could otherwise be sold for $1000. I'd rather keep the jobs and wealth here in Australia.
Consider the following however. We can export some bauxite for $50. Or we could turn it into alumina and export it for $250. Or we could turn it into aluminium metal and export it for $1000.
To add to your thread smurf. What starcraftmazter also seems to be missing is if the world requires 10million tonnes of aluminium per year, someone has to make it and the resultant carbon will be produced.
The politics of envy is a poor substitute for economic and fiscal analysis, of which this post contains little or none. Miners are the backbone of the national economy, with their sleeves rolled up, taking on project risk and making a contribution. They don't deserve to be sneered at in this way, not even the Todster (just kidding T).Not really. Miners do not generate massive profits because of any unique skills or innovations. Miners are getting rich because they are selling something which belongs to every single Australian. Every single Australian should as such benefit from this to a significant extent, because what is being sold are non-renewable, very valuable resources - the export of which devalues the wealth of our entire country permanently more and more.
What's more shocking is that all of these resources will forever be necessary for all humans, yet this "boom" will only benefit a small proportion of Australians for a very short time period.
To say miners pay enough tax is ridiculous, and the fact that they have gotten away paying so little for so long is scary in regards to the vast amount of wealth we have already permanently lost
The politics of envy is a poor substitute for economic and fiscal analysis, of which this post contains little or none.
Miners are the backbone of the national economy, with their sleeves rolled up, taking on project risk and making a contribution. They don't deserve to be sneered at in this way, not even the Todster (just kidding T).
These "massive" profits are not really massive when viewed in the context of the scale of their operations. They are only really in line with any large industry experiencing temporary increase in demand.Miners do not generate massive profits because of any unique skills or innovations.
Miners are getting rich because they are selling something which belongs to every single Australian.
Only in some non-existent and sociologically impossible communist "utopia". In any case, why should those not meritous of benefit to so off the back of the sweat of others.Every single Australian should as such benefit from this to a significant extent,
because what is being sold are non-renewable, very valuable resources - the export of which devalues the wealth of our entire country permanently more and more.
What's more shocking is that all of these resources will forever be necessary for all humans, yet this "boom" will only benefit a small proportion of Australians for a very short time period.
To say miners pay enough tax is ridiculous, and the fact that they have gotten away paying so little for so long is scary in regards to the vast amount of wealth we have already permanently lost
Fixed that for you.
F
T
Sources please that they cost any more than regular cars + oil use.
How do they present pollution when they wear out?
Mining materials are required for all cars!!! All products!! How is this even an argument.
And they are not expensive, in the next 1 years there will be electric cars on the market at all price ranges, even a few grand! You could have a car for the same cost of a reasonably powerful computer.
The study was commissioned by the Low Carbon Vehicle Partnership, which is jointly funded by the British government and the car industry. It found that a mid-size electric car would produce 23.1 tonnes of CO2 over its lifetime, compared with 24 tonnes for a similar petrol car. Emissions from manufacturing electric cars are at least 50 per cent higher because batteries are made from materials such as lithium, copper and refined silicon, which require much energy to be processed.
Many electric cars are expected to need a replacement battery after a few years. Once the emissions from producing the second battery are added in, the total CO2 from producing an electric car rises to 12.6 tonnes, compared with 5.6 tonnes for a petrol car. Disposal also produces double the emissions because of the energy consumed in recovering and recycling metals in the battery. The study also took into account carbon emitted to generate the grid electricity consumed.
The main point I would make is that we are competitive with aluminium in particular (and others including zinc) and it is cheap electricity that gives us that edge.There are two key arguments I've so far identified which do not allow for this (not that I am in any way saying that it is somehow bad, I think we should produce as many finished products as we can)
1. The vast gap in labour cost in developed vs developing countries
2. The significant environmental impacts from processing raw metals and other minerals, and in the manufacture of goods.
The politics of envy is a poor substitute for economic and fiscal analysis, of which this post contains little or none. Miners are the backbone of the national economy, with their sleeves rolled up, taking on project risk and making a contribution. They don't deserve to be sneered at in this way, not even the Todster (just kidding T).
Quote Originally Posted by wayneL View Post
Apart from your tacit admission that your voluminous and Fabianesque ramblings are in fact nonsense, the fact remains that mine was intentional; sadly, you must come to your own realization regarding your views with bitter experience.
And when you run out of logical or factual arguments just pull out the Fabian/Socialist/Communist/just too stupid line.
Doesn't seem to fail on this forum does it ?
Reductio ad Fabianum is not uncommon here.And when you run out of logical or factual arguments just pull out the Fabian/Socialist/Communist/just too stupid line.
Doesn't seem to fail on this forum does it ?
wayneL;645687]Apart from running your flag up for all to see, you have neglected to include the rest of my post which was both factual and logical.
Strike one.
The reason most sneer (rightfully) at Fabian regurgitations on this forum is because the vast majority here are lovers of liberty. Scratch the surface of the Fabians benign sounding subterfuge is an illiberal and totally offensive agenda.
So no it doesn't fail here because mistrust of Fabianism is based on fact and logic.
Strike two.
Your construct here is seriously unfortunate by any measure.
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