What is racism?

luutzu · 17 January 2018

sptrawler said:
You're probably right, we are to blame for all of the Aboriginal outcomes, they're responsible for none of the outcomes.
We can give them more affirmative action, it hasn't worked in the past.
We can give them more welfare, that hasn't worked in the past.
We can take them away from abusive domestic situations, that hasn't worked in the past.
We can pay them to go to school, that hasn't worked in the past.
We can set up Aboriginal industries i.e Wiluna orange plantation, that hasn't worked.
http://www.riverblueholdings.com.au/gallery15.html

Maybe we should just give them all a house? I've seen what they do to them, but I guess we just don't fix them up enough times.

Maybe you could give a few suggestions, that haven't been tried and failed?

You and I are not to blame. Gov't policies are.

How do we know our honest pollies aren't telling lies about "doing everything we can" to help the Aborigines. Just they don't help themselves at all."?

How do we know them saying that is not at all the same as them saying "the poor (White, brown, yellow) people are poor and need help" because they're lazy, do drugs and want to live off of handouts".

But yea, sure, let's give more taxcuts to the rich and corporations so that they can make us all rich by giving us work to do.

sptrawler · 17 January 2018

luutzu said:
You and I are not to blame. Gov't policies are.

How do we know our honest pollies aren't telling lies about "doing everything we can" to help the Aborigines. Just they don't help themselves at all."?

How do we know them saying that is not at all the same as them saying "the poor (White, brown, yellow) people are poor and need help" because they're lazy, do drugs and want to live off of handouts".

But yea, sure, let's give more taxcuts to the rich and corporations so that they can make us all rich by giving us work to do.

I grew up in country W.A and have known and still do know a lot of Aboriginals, those that choose to work are given work willingly.
Most people know that if they are employed, they become constructive members of society, if they aren't working and just hanging around trouble follows.
It really isn't any different whether they are black, white or any other colour, unemployed people have a lot of time to fill in.
As for pollies telling lies, I don't think so, I know first hand the Wiluna projects failed from lack of workers.
You can't make people work, that is called slavery, you can offer them work, but if they refuse it what can you do?
I know everyone thinks it is lack of opportunity, but from my experience, it is a lack of work ethic.
Just my opinion

luutzu · 17 January 2018

sptrawler said:
I grew up in country W.A and have known and still do know a lot of Aboriginals, those that choose to work are given work willingly.
Most people know that if they are employed, they become constructive members of society, if they aren't working and just hanging around trouble follows.
It really isn't any different whether they are black, white or any other colour, unemployed people have a lot of time to fill in.
As for pollies telling lies, I don't think so, I know first hand the Wiluna projects failed from lack of workers.
You can't make people work, that is called slavery, you can offer them work, but if they refuse it what can you do?
I know everyone thinks it is lack of opportunity, but from my experience, it is a lack of work ethic.
Just my opinion

luutzu · 17 January 2018

luutzu · 17 January 2018

sptrawler · 17 January 2018

And is any of the presentations, saying not enough is being spent?

Like I said a couple of posts back, give suggestions on how to fix the issue, if you think there is an answer.

I'm sure you will find they have been tried, it isn't as though people like the situation.
But it is difficult to reverse a persons situation, if they aren't interested in participating.
You can put in place plans, ideas, reward systems, if the participant isn't interested, it won't work.

luutzu · 17 January 2018

sptrawler said:
And is any of the presentations, saying not enough is being spent?

The interview with Warren Snowdon there says a bit about it.
Life expectancy averaging 47 years; suffering from diseases the Third World even managed to got rid of etc. etc.

Capitalism have a big middle man. Budget $1 to the end users and they'd be lucky to get 10 cents on it.

Believe the media and politicians about other groups being helped but their hate and gene refuses to be thankful or help themselves and soon enough we find ourselves being targets.

Just ask the working poor, disabled and White Trump voters.

SirRumpole · 17 January 2018

luutzu said:
Life expectancy averaging 47 years; suffering from diseases the Third World even managed to got rid of etc. etc.

Some Aborigines don't want to take white man's medicines because that would be an admission of weakness on their part, and because they are afraid of saying "thank you" to the whiteys for making them better.

It's about culturalism, the idea that one's own culture is superior to others. If they don't take the medicines, they have no one to blame but themselves.

sptrawler · 17 January 2018

luutzu said:
The interview with Warren Snowdon there says a bit about it.
Life expectancy averaging 47 years; suffering from diseases the Third World even managed to got rid of etc. etc.

Yes they do have a low life expectancy, they do have a lot on dialysis, most have type two diabetes, they do spend most of their money on alcohol.

How do you stop them from spending their money, on what they want to?
Do you make it so they can't buy alcohol?
Do you limit, what they can spend their welfare money on?
Do you make them go to work?

Everyone knows the problem, and Warren Snowdon can make money telling everyone there is a problem, nobody seems to give an answer.

Of course there's a problem, give a few answers to the problem, that haven't been tried.

sptrawler · 17 January 2018

luutzu said:
Capitalism have a big middle man. Budget $1 to the end users and they'd be lucky to get 10 cents on it.
.

That isn't exactly true, the middle man doesn't get their welfare payment, that is why they are trying to introduce the welfare card.
To ensure that they spend the majority of their welfare on food, not alcohol.

I think you really need to load up the car, and go for a holiday to the outback.
Places like Docker River, where the only reason they exist is because the Aborigines want them, therefore they are the custodians of the Town.
They get housing provided, really expensive electricity provided and services provided.
You would think, they would be little islands of Aboriginal culture.

sptrawler · 17 January 2018

These kids should be at home, not in the City at night, doing staged hitting practice. Can't wait to see how they perform, when they have extra height and weight.

https://thewest.com.au/news/crime/teen-gang-well-known-to-city-business-owner-ng-b88717691z

luutzu · 17 January 2018

SirRumpole said:
Some Aborigines don't want to take white man's medicines because that would be an admission of weakness on their part, and because they are afraid of saying "thank you" to the whiteys for making them better.

It's about culturalism, the idea that one's own culture is superior to others. If they don't take the medicines, they have no one to blame but themselves.

Maybe watch that John Pilger doco.

But yes, it's completely their faults. Kinda like it's poor people's fault for being poor.

Not sure why poor struggling families are always struggling. I mean, the government always said that tax cuts and corporate welfare handed to other people are supposed to make poor people rich, but because of their laziness, the sick and the poor always remain poor.

In Australia, corporate tax cuts has been reduced. yet, the average aussie still haven't gotten a proper raise. Lazy bums.

Likewise, the Aborigines have everything given to them but they spend it on booze, petrol sniffing, getting in the way of police batons and punching fists; choosing to stay on reservations.

Anyway.

sptrawler · 17 January 2018

luutzu said:
Maybe watch that John Pilger doco.

But yes, it's completely their faults. Kinda like it's poor people's fault for being poor.

Not sure why poor struggling families are always struggling. I mean, the government always said that tax cuts and corporate welfare handed to other people are supposed to make poor people rich, but because of their laziness, the sick and the poor always remain poor.

In Australia, corporate tax cuts has been reduced. yet, the average aussie still haven't gotten a proper raise. Lazy bums.

Likewise, the Aborigines have everything given to them but they spend it on booze, petrol sniffing, getting in the way of police batons and punching fists; choosing to stay on reservations.

Anyway.

Lots of people of all colours and races, grow up in poverty, not all of them choose to stay that way.
Likewise, lots of people grow up in wealthy families, yet choose the path of drugs, alcohol and poverty.
Life is about choices.
I know a person, he was a workmate, who grew up in probably the lowest socio economic area of Perth, did an apprenticeship and is now a CEO of a top 200 company.
I know an Aboriginal, that I did my apprenticeship with, who is now known as a legend, in the Town he lives in.
I didn't know that until last weekend when, I bumped into someone who came from the same Town, we were trying to find common aquaintances to talk about.

The real issue is, it is harder to get on the treadmill of life, than to just sit on the poverty of welfare.

Like it or not, Australia offers both options, most Countries don't.

luutzu · 17 January 2018

sptrawler said:
Lots of people of all colours and races, grow up in poverty, not all of them choose to stay that way.
Likewise, lots of people grow up in wealthy families, yet choose the path of drugs, alcohol and poverty.
Life is about choices.
I know a person, he was a workmate, who grew up in probably the lowest socio economic area of Perth, did an apprenticeship and is now a CEO of a top 200 company.
I know an Aboriginal, that I did my apprenticeship with, who is now known as a legend, in the Town he lives in.
I didn't know that until last weekend when, I bumped into someone who came from the same Town, we were trying to find common aquaintances to talk about.

The real issue is, it is harder to get on the treadmill of life, than to just sit on the poverty of welfare.

Like it or not, Australia offers both options, most Countries don't.

Yes. THere are those who was born poor, work hard and make it to the top. And vice versa.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't take some responsibility for their fate.

Just that there is a balance.

We can't blame the poor for being so because they refuse to work hard. Can't praise the rich for being so because they work a lot harder, or smarter.

I know plenty of smart but poor and struggling people. Same as plenty of rich idiots who just can't be poor no matter how hard they try.

If an Aborigine kid is born into poverty in the middle of Uluru, or Perth, it's going to take a miracle for that kid to find the resources or even the inspiration to achieve [name your definition of great success].

We're all born equal. But research have found that after about grade 3, live diverges for kids based on their parents income and social environment.

That doesn't mean all kids from poor families won't make it to the top Fortunes/BRW Rich List or whatever. Just it's going to be a lot tougher.

There's even a book on this. Can't remember the title now.
Two guys having the same IQ. One from a trailer park the other from a family of lawyers and bankers [or something like that].

Guess which one ended up heading Project Manhattan and which one live in a trailer park because his single mum was so poor he can't afford to pay a low uni fee after he was awarded a scholarship.

sptrawler · 18 January 2018

luutzu said:
Yes. THere are those who was born poor, work hard and make it to the top. And vice versa.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't take some responsibility for their fate.

Just that there is a balance.

We can't blame the poor for being so because they refuse to work hard. Can't praise the rich for being so because they work a lot harder, or smarter.

I know plenty of smart but poor and struggling people. Same as plenty of rich idiots who just can't be poor no matter how hard they try.

If an Aborigine kid is born into poverty in the middle of Uluru, or Perth, it's going to take a miracle for that kid to find the resources or even the inspiration to achieve [name your definition of great success].

We're all born equal. But research have found that after about grade 3, live diverges for kids based on their parents income and social environment.

That doesn't mean all kids from poor families won't make it to the top Fortunes/BRW Rich List or whatever. Just it's going to be a lot tougher.

There's even a book on this. Can't remember the title now.
Two guys having the same IQ. One from a trailer park the other from a family of lawyers and bankers [or something like that].

Guess which one ended up heading Project Manhattan and which one live in a trailer park because his single mum was so poor he can't afford to pay a low uni fee after he was awarded a scholarship.

At least in Australia there is a welfare system, that saves those who can't make it, most Countries don't have that.
The problem we have is, a lot of people don't realise it is a safety net, it isn't supposed to be a lifestyle choice for those who don't want to work.
It has to be paid for by those who pay taxes, it isn't money made from magic.

sptrawler · 18 January 2018

luutzu said:
If an Aborigine kid is born into poverty in the middle of Uluru, or Perth, it's going to take a miracle for that kid to find the resources or even the inspiration to achieve [name your definition of great success].

It isn't going to take a miracle, if an Aborigine kid born in Uluru or Perth shows some determination to learn, they will be given more assistance than anyone, to break the cycle of dependence is paramount.
The problem is the peer pressure, to follow the well trodden path.

sptrawler · 18 January 2018

Iuutzu, maybe you should go to a suburb near where you live, and do a bit of social work.
Then give some feedback.

Kerway · 18 January 2018

In my experience, culture is the main factor as to why one nation has a successful economy and others are less successful. The economic success of Germany and Japan are good examples of successful nations because their people possess a strong work ethic and honesty in their dealings with others.

On a micro level, I believe ones "upbringing" equates to culture on a macro level. Thus the upbringing of Aboriginal people tends to prevent them succeeding economically rather than them being lazy or work shy.

I am not sure how this conflict of cultures can be resolved. We cannot force people to integrate so that we all eventually behave the same way.

Perhaps "supporting" the Aboriginal population until such time that it integrates with the rest of Australia is the "price the rest of us have to pay" for making our culture the "required" norm here.

sptrawler · 18 January 2018

luutzu said:
Guess which one ended up heading Project Manhattan and which one live in a trailer park because his single mum was so poor he can't afford to pay a low uni fee after he was awarded a scholarship.

It has only become a recent phenomena, where uni students didn't expect to have to work their way through Uni.
Most Uni students in the 1970's 80's and 90's had to have jobs to pay their way through.
Actually single mums pensions only came about in the 1970's, before that single mum's, just had to suck it up.
This is the problem with a welfare state, all of a sudden everyone wants a piece of it, and want to abuse those who have to pay for it.

sptrawler · 18 January 2018

Kerway said:
In my experience, culture is the main factor as to why one nation has a successful economy and others are less successful. The economic success of Germany and Japan are good examples of successful nations because their people possess a strong work ethic and honesty in their dealings with others.

On a micro level, I believe ones "upbringing" equates to culture on a macro level. Thus the upbringing of Aboriginal people tends to prevent them succeeding economically rather than them being lazy or work shy.

I am not sure how this conflict of cultures can be resolved. We cannot force people to integrate so that we all eventually behave the same way.

Perhaps "supporting" the Aboriginal population until such time that it integrates with the rest of Australia is the "price the rest of us have to pay" for making our culture the "required" norm here.

Could you give a time line, that would be acceptable to the Aboriginal population?

By the way Kerway, nice to see you posting , look forward to your input.
Have you been in Australia long?

What is racism?

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