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What is racism?

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And you expect these things to survive centuries of war, pillaging, destruction, earthquakes, floods etc when the original documents would only be bits of papyrus and would have had to have been secreted from the Romans and no doubt his followers would have fled the area and put the 'evidence' who knows where.

Maybe a few stories got inflated over the years but I'm prepared to stay agnostic about the whole Jesus issue and say that there is more to the stories than you give credit for considering their longevity and the fact that Christianity eventually took over the Roman empire. I don't think that you can just write that off to a few myths.
 

Yea, would be hard to resist too if I were you.

But I'd be wrong too.

It's not Muslims or Refugees or welfare recipients that drain the European economies. It's the reverse Robinhood tax and policies that steal from the public and give it to friends and masters that does it.

Then when the masters of the universe crash the world, putting it into near economic collapse... public money were used to bail them out. And where does the gov't get those money? From China and eventually from the bankers that were bailed out, of course.

Then in an economic recession, where people were laid off, where small business can't complete with "free trade" imports, where domestic demand is weak or non-existence beside the absolute essentials (many of which has been privatised)... the dear leaders go for Austerity.

But of course it's not the hundreds of billions that were used to bailed the bankers and friends that did it; nor the privatisation; or the gutting of social services and training... it's the poor and the refugees and them Muslims.

---

People all born naked and weak. It's only natural that they want to grow up and do something "great" with their lives.

When there are no opportunities, no training available; when the masters of man thought it'd be to the "national interests" that public resources are invested in the top crust and merchant of death... and the people become poor, have little choice but do menial work and either accept their fate, pray for a better life in the next...

Anyway, the buck doesn't stop at the head of states... it apparently stuck at the feet of those who try to climb out of poverty but the rope's too short to reach them. Serve them right for being poor and not paying taxes so that a proper ladder could be built... wait, they do pay their taxes to the full.
 

Why wouldn't evidence survive, I am only asking for 1 piece, plenty of evidence for others during that time survive. Eg we have plenty of Jewish artworks that were made during jesuses life time depicting Old Testament bible stories, I linked a photo of a mural of Moses a few pages back.

Do you give credit to other myths that have longevity, or just the Jesus story, eg, what about the rainbow serpent story of the aboriginals? Or Noah's Ark? Or the Moari God the fished up the New Zealand land mass from the bottom of the ocean with a hook?

I mean the fact that a Roman emperor got converted from one sets of god my to another God myth doesn't mean the
The new god myth has any more credibility. To this day people are still converting to different religions, it doesn't make them true.

By the way if I said Noah's Ark didn't exist, and you say "well maybe there was real Noah who built a raft with a few animals on it survive a flood" I would say that's not Noah's ark is it, so Noah's ark didn't exist.
 

As I said before, Jesus was a maverick to the Jews. He was never part of the Jewish religion and still isn't today.

There is no reason why the Jews would have put him in artwork or written anything about him during his life. It was up to his followers or their descendants to write the story.
 

And as I said, surely some record, even a record from his enemies would have survived, he had a lot of followers and apparently has amazing powers.

If he didn't have amazing powers, then it's not Jesus of the bible any way.

I won't keep talking the same topic over and over except to say that if you are happy to say Santa Claus doesn't exist even though you know st Nicholas existed, you should be just as happy saying Jesus (the bible character) didn't exist.

The fact a guy or guys may have existed in the flesh who inspired the myth is a red herring when the question being asked is if you believe the actual character from the story is real or mythological.

Most children over the age of 8 know Santa as described doesn't exist, I find it laughable that so many adults think Jesus did.
 
Ask your self this, the guy you claim existed "Jesus" do you think he actually

Was born of a Virgin?
Was the son of a God?
Raised people from the dead?
Raised himself from the dead?
Cured diseases that were incurable ?
Turned water into wine and multiplied loaves and fishes etc?

Because if he didn't, he is not "bible Jesus" that we are talking about
 

I make no comment on any of this, what I'm saying is that Jesus was a historical figure. You say you think he never existed I'm saying that historians disagree with you.

And as I said, surely some record, even a record from his enemies would have survived, he had a lot of followers and apparently has amazing powers.
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I refer you again to the writings of Tacitus a Roman historian who mentioned Jesus and his execution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ
 

I was of the opinion he was actually a Jewish rabbi and he was so good at knowing the whole kit and caboodle of the Hebrew Bible he pi55ed off the old boy club priests, especially after doing things like giving them a serve at the local synagogue after 40 days in the desert and giving the money changers the flick from the temple.
 

Was this historical figure born of a virgin?
Rise from the dead?
Cure diseases?
Raise people from the dead?
The son of a god etc?

If not, we are talking about different people? I am talking about the Jesus figure from the bible

You are talking about an eccentric Jewish rabbi who may or may not have existed and who may or may not have been executed.

As I said don't have a problem with saying a guy or serveral guys might have existed that inspired the story, but to accept it as fact I would want an account of him or some art work or artifact that was produced during his life.

An account decades later is not good enough,

Did Tactius Meet Jesus? Or is he just repeating camp fire stories?
 
If not, we are talking about different people?
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Not necessarily, he may have done some of the things attributed to him for all I know, other things may be exaggerations.

Neither you or I were there so we can't say what happened.
 
SirRumpole said:
Not necessarily, he may have done some of the things attributed to him for all I know, other things may be exaggerations.

Neither you or I were there so we can't say what happened.
Click to expand...

I thought it's when witnesses are no longer around, when listeners weren't there, that you say what happened did indeed happen,

Aren't you and VC saying the same thing?

That maybe there was a Jewish guy name Jesus, or a few of them, way back then who say some pretty deep stuff that Paul and Peter later put down and add a few extra salt and pepper to glorify that Son of God.

Since they were the chosen disciple of the Son of God, who may one day far far far into the future came back to Earth... you peasants better be nice to uncle Paul over here in case he tells the big man on you.

So the Bible's Jesus does not exists - can't exists because you can't walk on water or come back from Roman's handy work. But a Jesus, the smart son of a carpenter, may have existed and may have preach etc., just you know, he's not "the Jesus".
 
SirRumpole said:
Neither you or I were there.
Click to expand...

Neither were the people that wrote the stories decades later.

Neither you or I were there so we can't say what happened
Click to expand...

Exactly, but why would you believe something so extraordinary, on no evidence at all except the documents making the claim, that weren't even written by eye witnesses.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and we don't really have any evidence he even existed except for texts written about him decades after he was said to have died.

You wouldn't accept any other claim of that type.
 
luutzu said:
So the Bible's Jesus does not exists - can't exists because you can't walk on water or come back from Roman's handy work. But a Jesus, the smart son of a carpenter, may have existed and may have preach etc., just you know, he's not "the Jesus".
Click to expand...

Exactly, and when some one is talking about "The Jesus" and they say there is a good chance he never existed, Saying "Historians disagree with you" is a red herring, because they are talking about some guy or guys who may have inspired the stories.

And at the end of the day, there is pretty much no evidence for the inspiration guy anyway, and historians are just pulling apart the religious texts and saying "well modern Christians probably wouldn't have written this into the story, maybe there is some truth to it" but if you ask me, the bible is the claim not the evidence, it requires independent evidence, which just isn't there.

And did I mention Millions of dollars has been spend trying to uncover evidence for Jesus and its never been found.

Any one interested should do some research and come back to me with what they think the best evidence for the existence of Jesus is, I think you will find yourself holding an empty sack.

Discussion of Jesus starts at 1.40

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Value Collector said:
Any one interested should do some research and come back to me with what they think the best evidence for the existence of Jesus is, I think you will find yourself holding an empty sack.
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This is a core problem with the preposition. If you were a Christian you would consider Jesus not only walked the walk, but also lives on in both his believers and non believers..... you are snookered anyway you try to wiggle out of it VC....you have been "pwned"!

And because you and every other heathen out there (including those that worship false prophets, icons, etc) tilt at windmills it just reinforces the great love Jesus must have in not putting his vengeful God uniform on and smiting the bejesus out of you and your Godless brethren. He allows you to be do what you do and say, because you amuse him and serve to illustrate to the believers the persona of a person who goose steps down the path to eventual perdition.... you are 4ucked VC.

You know that the Mormons own the Ancestry geneology site and they are ultimately looking for the messianic gene that will not so much prove the existence of Jesus, but that the high priestess Mary Madge did have an emmaculate conception of her own, a seemingly unique family trait of the first born Carpenter family men. I would suspect they must have the original samples to be able to carry out the comparo.
 
SirRumpole said:
It is for some...

Anyway I think we owe an apology to the Thread Starter for the outrageous hijacking of a reasonable question he posed.
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True

Of course racism is predicated on offending someone's opinion about the importance of skin colour that is disagreeable with your own.

Take my appreciation of industrious whitey. Sure there were other peoples who played around the fringes with wheels and fire, but all for comparative nought until the Nordic races decided that didn't like the Romans and their mafioso protection racket anymore and set themselves on the evolutionary track to glorious wars and technology. A slow start to begin with, but by 1066 the things were gaining traction, the church of Rome was busy fermenting it's own Vietnam war with Turkey, while up in the boonies the Godwinson and Conqueror boys were ramping up their family argument over an inheritance that would eventually result in the greatest empire, technological revolutionaries and rule of law givers the world will most likely ever see.

Once upon a time Australia was populated, in the main, with those same British stock and supplemented with the socially retarded micks from Ireland (who found great comfort in the arms of the local aboriginal women it seems). Then along came a vowel challenged foreigner Jerzy Zubrzycki who gave the educated classes something to bang on about instead of their boring conservatism and the next thing we know we have Al Grassby in 1972 giving out the combination to the migrant locks WTF! Most of the silent generation still have nightmares about that, in silence of course.

And that's the history of the modern world right there, done and dusted.

Where are the homelands of the white people you ask...they are Nordics:







 
Tink said:
The mythical "Santa Claus" is not the same person as "Saint Nicholas".

.
Click to expand...

Exactly, that's my point all along.

The Mythical version of Jesus written about in the bible is not the same as the real Jesus (if one existed), so it is perfectly correct to same, Jesus didn't exist (although I normally say "Probably" didn't exist, just to avoid making a positive claim which would be impossible to prove, like trying to prove the lochness monster doesn't exist)

I will answer your other point in the religion thread.
 

answer in religious thread
 
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