What are your trading objectives?

[Gringotts Bank]

Maybe somewhere in between the two. I don't think anyone should feel guilty about wanting a comfortable life. Neither is there any obligation to provide for others.

Neither should there be any implication that to donate to various charities is to avoid feeling guilty about having worked hard and saved in order to ultimately feel secure.

And I don't really think most ordinary individuals would consider they were experiencing 'all the happiness in the world' by living in some slum and serving soup to others. It's quite possible to look after ourselves and at the same time volunteer time and energy to help others.

I guess so, but...

Trading for profit involves taking from others less clever than yourself. Charity involves giving to those less fortunate. I saw a clash in values. And knowing pavillion's strong Christian faith, I would like to know how he reconciles this clash in himself. There''s a Bible quote which says: "Ye cannot serve God and mammon".... but pavillion is giving it a red hot go!

Luke 16:13
"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and mammon (money)."

 

[burglar]

I loved Taleb's quote. It looks like you and I may be about to turn into a mutual appreciation society!

@Pav, it's not so much about wanting to say "FTSE you" to people, but more about being empowered to enforce personal boundaries.

Having had past experiences of unscrupulous individuals and/or corporate entities inappropriately interfering in my life via the exploitation of their respective positions of power and/or trust, I can definitely appreciate what Taleb's angle might be and therefore relate strongly to it.

I waited off to see if someone could say it better than me!!

 

[Julia]

I guess so, but...

Trading for profit involves taking from others less clever than yourself.

Not necessarily. You might be buying at a point which suits you, but from someone who bought at a lower price and has achieved his/her profit objectives. Same with selling. People have different objectives and needs and every decision to buy or sell is voluntary. You are not diddling someone by offering them something which does not exist eg.

Charity involves giving to those less fortunate. I saw a clash in values.

I'm not sure why you see this as any sort of clash in values. Perhaps consider that part of the reason to make money is in order to fulfil one's desire to help others. Think Gates, Twiggy Forrest et al.

And knowing pavillion's strong Christian faith, I would like to know how he reconciles this clash in himself. There''s a Bible quote which says: "Ye cannot serve God and mammon".... but pavillion is giving it a red hot go!

For someone who is usually pretty non judgemental, are you sure you're being fair here? There are plenty of people here who just want to make money, and there's nothing wrong with that, but you're singling Pavilion out because of his Christian faith. If he can combine making money with contributing to others, I'm not sure why you're finding a problem with that.

 

[sails]

I guess so, but...

Trading for profit involves taking from others less clever than yourself. Charity involves giving to those less fortunate. I saw a clash in values. And knowing pavillion's strong Christian faith, I would like to know how he reconciles this clash in himself. There''s a Bible quote which says: "Ye cannot serve God and mammon".... but pavillion is giving it a red hot go!

Luke 16:13
"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and mammon (money)."

So are you saying that any one with a Christian faith should not work to support themselves? Do you think they should should just starve to death rather than support themselves? I have never found anything in the Bible to support such nonsense.

Trading is no different to running any other business.

 

[Country Lad]

Trading for profit involves taking from others less clever than yourself.

That is more making it up than a valid argument or reality.

Firstly, if we are buying a rising price (that is what trading for a profit is all about) then the other side is also selling into a rising price, just too early, so at that point nobody is taking from others. Secondly, trading is part living on your wits and part experience. If I am better at that than the next guy then that is life. Not taking from others at all, just a level playing field in the real world.

 

[sails]

That is more making it up than a valid argument or reality.

Firstly, if we are buying a rising price (that is what trading for a profit is all about) then the other side is also selling into a rising price, just too early, so at that point nobody is taking from others. Secondly, trading is part living on your wits and part experience. If I am better at that than the next guy then that is life. Not taking from others at all, just a level playing field in the real world.

I agree CL.

Using GB's mentality I suppose he would also say you shouldn't get a job because it would be denying someone lose that job effectively robbing them of an income.

And I suppose he would have the same mentality at running a business because you might be taking market share from someone else and effectively robbing them of income. A trading business is no different.

That is a silly draconian mentality.

However when it comes to sensible Christianity, it is not wrong to use our skills to work hard and achieve our best, IMO. The Bible encourages helping those in need and it often takes money to do so.

All the best to Pav...

 

[pavilion103]

If the ultimate aim is to enjoy life and help others enjoy it, do you need to be rich first? Wouldn't the more expedient way be to devote your life right now to helping others and forget about being rich? You don't need money to live in the slums and serve soup as a full time job. All you would need is enough to cover rent and some food. All the happiness in the world is yours, serving others. Or is it about making money for yourself and family to live in luxury and not have to work? And then give some of it to charities so that you don't feel guilty?

I do that now. Surely you've read posts about the extent of my charity work/community involvement?

 

[pavilion103]

For some reason GB wants to attack me personally at any opportunity.
I appreciate the support of others in the forum, it really does make GB look silly (doesn't seem to get the hint).

Sick of having threads derailed by idiots. I'm here to have a genuine discussion with others who are too

Enjoying the responses guys. Maybe I misunderstood that quote CL. I definitely want the money to be able to break free and not be tied to conventional 9-5 living!

 

[craft]

My objective is to identify my real objective.

I’ve had plenty of objectives and goals that justified my obsession with the market which have turned out to be self deluding mirages, their importance evaporating as their attainment approached and never turning out to be the real driving force.

Maybe the objective is really to just feed some chemical that arises from the stimulation of taking on the market. Everything else (money, stuff, freedom, helping others, whatever) is just a by-product.

Maybe I’m just unbalanced.

Certainly didn’t have the balance Pav demonstrates in his opening post – for example I burnt every bridge I possibly could when getting into the markets full time. No safety net was/is a reverse objective I guess.

 

[tinhat]

It's a huge responsibility to manage other people's money.
We all make mistakes, even after many years, and I'd be sick with worry if I were getting it wrong even slightly with someone else's funds.

Not something that worries you, tinhat?

It's kept me up at night a few times over the past few years because I've been an inexperienced investor and made some expensive mistakes. It's not brain surgery though! Noone is going to die if I make a mistake.

It is also my observation that most people are excessively risk averse. Yep, I worry but I (and probably many people here) take on more risk than the average person and I expect to achieve a higher pay-off in the long run, which includes living a more comfortable life in the long run.

+ 1

Funnily enough, there's a whole industry of people that do just that and yet somehow manage to elude accountability when things turn pear-shaped!

That was my main motivation. When she became widowed I felt she was very. I didn't like the accountant she had and got rid of him. Who do you trust? I figured I should be able to do at least as good a job as a fund manager and at a lower cost.

I would imagine that a lot of the older members here have the same motivation - to manage their own SMSF or nest egg so that they keep control over their own money and out-perform managed funds.

tinhat, I assume your mother is of pension age.

Yes.

 

[CanOz]

This is a good thread, so keep it on topic. If you wish to have a side discussion, then make up a new thread for it.

 

[Country Lad]

For some reason GB wants to attack me personally at any opportunity.

I wouldn't worry about that pav, he isn't singling you out, he does it regularly to others as well. My notes have him as naturally negative and not to bother debating him on any topic.

Cheers
Country Lad

 

[Gringotts Bank]

I wouldn't worry about that pav, he isn't singling you out, he does it regularly to others as well. My notes have him as naturally negative and not to other debating him on any topic.

Cheers
Country Lad

You keep notes on me? That's weird.

Canoz has deleted my posts so I have no right of reply here. See the religion thread.

 

[tech/a]

Aims
(1) Make another income. I can do this passively or aggressively.
(2) Make super work for me harder than external sources.
(3) Control my funds as much as possible.
(4) Ease of movement I can control $100s of 000s with a mouse click--that Is very attractive---cant do that with property. In and out in minutes.

My biggest fear isn't the market taking my savings but having my funds with another party that goes belly up.
Storm financial --et-al
There is also a fear of having a broker fall over with the majority of my super in with them.

When you have larger than average funds to control external factors that could cause total loss are my biggest concern.

 

[Julia]

It is also my observation that most people are excessively risk averse. Yep, I worry but I (and probably many people here) take on more risk than the average person and I expect to achieve a higher pay-off in the long run, which includes living a more comfortable life in the long run.

Your last phrase probably answers the question in the thread title. I agree about this. I'm very happy, however, that the days of needing to take risks are over. I know some people enjoy it. I don't.

I would imagine that a lot of the older members here have the same motivation - to manage their own SMSF or nest egg so that they keep control over their own money and out-perform managed funds.

Yep, all about having control for me.

Firstly, if we are buying a rising price (that is what trading for a profit is all about) then the other side is also selling into a rising price, just too early,

Not necessarily too early from their point of view.
Could be a value investor convinced the price has reached their valuation.
Could be someone who bought at $X and determined to sell at X% profit.
Could be someone who was trading to acquire house deposit, reached the goal, and got out.
Lots of reasons, none of which leave that trader other than happy about the trade.

You keep notes on me? That's weird.

I'm sure most of us have 'mental notes' on our co-forum members.

 

[cynic]

My objective is to identify my real objective.

I’ve had plenty of objectives and goals that justified my obsession with the market which have turned out to be self deluding mirages, their importance evaporating as their attainment approached and never turning out to be the real driving force.

Maybe the objective is really to just feed some chemical that arises from the stimulation of taking on the market. Everything else (money, stuff, freedom, helping others, whatever) is just a by-product.

Isn't it interesting how the people whom are willingly cognizant of their own capacity for self deceit are usually the people least likely to succumb?!

Maybe I’m just unbalanced.

Certainly didn’t have the balance Pav demonstrates in his opening post – for example I burnt every bridge I possibly could when getting into the markets full time. No safety net was/is a reverse objective I guess.

Whilst I can understand how the burning of one's bridges can serve to motivate one into concerted effort (i.e. failure is no longer an option!) , you've always struck me as someone whom is sufficiently driven by your personal passion for the business and analytical aspects of trading.
Could it be that you were simply seeking to test yourself by increasing the level of challenge?

I wouldn't worry about that pav, he isn't singling you out, he does it regularly to others as well. My notes have him as naturally negative and not to bother debating him on any topic.

Cheers
Country Lad

You've done it now CL!
Now that you've let the cat out of the bag by giving GB his report card, we're all going to want ours too!

 

[So_Cynical]

Lol why the heck would you want to say that to people? Got a chip on your shoulder?

I want money to have freedom and enjoy life and help others enjoy it too. I've got nothing against anyone else, just want to help as many as I can!

I don't have anything against anyone, i have simply spent my life saying yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir...being told what to do usually by idiots and incompetents and people who have mostly found themselves in positions of authority simply because they stayed in the job.

**** you money isn't about saying **** you to everyone but being able to say **** you to anyone...having enough money to have the choice....the worst thing in life for ordinary people as far as im concerned is having to sit there and take the crap simply because you cant afford not to.

 

[merlinnn]

I don't have anything against anyone, i have simply spent my life saying yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir...being told what to do usually by idiots and incompetents and people who have mostly found themselves in positions of authority simply because they stayed in the job.

I couldn't agree more, success through longevity is rubbish, success through competence is the only way as far as I'm concerned.

 

[pavilion103]

I don't have anything against anyone, i have simply spent my life saying yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir...being told what to do usually by idiots and incompetents and people who have mostly found themselves in positions of authority simply because they stayed in the job. **** you money isn't about saying **** you to everyone but being able to say **** you to anyone...having enough money to have the choice....the worst thing in life for ordinary people as far as im concerned is having to sit there and take the crap simply because you cant afford not to.

Yeh I agree.

 

[Julia]

You've done it now CL!
Now that you've let the cat out of the bag by giving GB his report card, we're all going to want ours too!

I don't think so. We can well do without any further personal opinions about individuals imo.