Whale wars

[Ageo]

You start on the road kill. I'll stick to my quality beef,chicken,fish and lamb.

Hehe Noika all im saying is when they do commercial culling of say thousands of roos etc... its a real waste as most of the meat can be consumed and is very very healthy for you.

On my roo cull permits its states you are in no way not allowed to remove the carcass from where it is (basically leave it to rot).

There is plenty of food to go around if people just open there eyes.

 

[Sdajii]

This is absurd. Apparently the problem is exponential human population growth, but apparently that does not indicate we are heading for a global food crisis. Again, I will take "Sorry, I was smoking pot at the time I posted that" as an acceptable explanation for what you are saying. I'll also accept it for you telling me that I am silly for not providing evidence for something which you question, while you provide the evidence yourself, for a point you apparently don't believe. Apparently I am not smart because I do not want to bother spoon feeding you utterly obvious evidence which you yourself are dishing out to me anyway!

If you think animals don't waste resources, you don't know much about animals! It is very common for animals to spoil 10 times more than they consume, and exclude other species or conspecifics from territories which go unutilised. Animals do not plan ahead, they consume at full pace, and if the resource runs out they go extinct. In natural situations, things tend to stabilise. If an animal gains the ability to deplete a resource and wipe itself out, it does so. Whatever remains is stable, so you can come along and say "Oooh, nature is stable, it sits in balance, isn't it lovely?" but when you get a bit of change (say, climate change or a freak weather event introducing new species to an area) some rapid changes take place, very often involving extinctions which could be avoided if animals were smart enough to manage and ration their resources, which they aren't, and after that brief period a new stable situation exists... for a while. This has been going on for hundreds of millions of years.

Yes, absolutely, monoculture farming is the most efficient way to get food off *land* (at least in the short term... but hey, who cares about the long term, we'll all die of old age before that problem bites us, so it's not important, right?). However, you can not make an economically viable business out of putting up fences in the middle of the ocean and ranching fish - it's just stupid. This is why most of the *land* animals you buy at your local supermarket are farmed, and why most of the *sea* animals you buy are wild caught. Yes, if we stop harvesting any one particular ocean species we will not starve to death, but why are you choosing whales if not for cuddly factor? We could stop farming cows or pigs or chickens and not starve to death, heck, we could same about apples, oranges, etc. Why do you focus on whales if not for cuddly factor? I bet you all love your tuna and salmon, along with your prawns, etc etc. I know I do. If you feel so strongly about not eating wild caught foods, does this not make you a hypocrite?

Anyway, I can't see this going anywhere productive. The emotion people feel for things such as whales has the ability to make them honestly believe in completely ridiculous arguments which back up what the emotion wants them to believe. You can't have a rational, logical discussion with someone basing their beliefs on emotion, so, I will step out of this thread now before I waste any more of my time on you.

 

[IFocus]

Sdajii not looking to offend and enviably everyone stands to defend their opinion regardless.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[IFocus]

Hehe Noika all im saying is when they do commercial culling of say thousands of roos etc... its a real waste as most of the meat can be consumed and is very very healthy for you.

On my roo cull permits its states you are in no way not allowed to remove the carcass from where it is (basically leave it to rot).

There is plenty of food to go around if people just open there eyes.

Ageo what state are you in here in WA on my brothers place I don't remember the rules being so strict other than you could not sell for human consumption.

 

[lukeaye]

Should we stop eating cuddly lanmbs, chicken, pork and beef. Should we stop slaughtering cows because they are sacred to some races. Should we stop feeding our pet dogs horse and kangaroo meat.

Extremely ignorant statemant, have heard it many times before. The bottom line here is very simple.

nioka, are cows, lambs, kangaroos etc close to extinction? No, so yes we will continue to eat them.

Whales on the other hand are endagered. So choose something else to eat. How Would the Japanese like it if we started hunting some their animals that are endagered?

 

[nioka]

Extremely ignorant statemant

Whales on the other hand are endagered. QUOTE]

I suggest your statement is the ignorant one..

Whales WERE endangered. That is why whaling stopped. Whales are now in numbers that could be sustainably harvested.

I speak from a long association with whales and whaling.I also believe in conservation.( I have spent many hours this past month on reaforrestation.) Where is your qualification to discuss the subject?.

"OUR" whales.???? Whose whales are they? Maybe the Japanese think of them as their whales. If they are "our" whales then you keep your share, I'll have my share delivered to Japan as whale oil and meat.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Whales on the other hand are endagered. So choose something else to eat. How Would the Japanese like it if we started hunting some their animals that are endagered?

You don't know. Only some whale types are endangered. Suggest googling for the facts. No one owns the animals. Responsible is more accurate.

 

[lukeaye]

Extremely ignorant statemant

Whales on the other hand are endagered. QUOTE]

I suggest your statement is the ignorant one..

Whales WERE endangered. That is why whaling stopped. Whales are now in numbers that could be sustainably harvested.

I speak from a long association with whales and whaling.I also believe in conservation.( I have spent many hours this past month on reaforrestation.) Where is your qualification to discuss the subject?.

"OUR" whales.???? Whose whales are they? Maybe the Japanese think of them as their whales. If they are "our" whales then you keep your share, I'll have my share delivered to Japan as whale oil and meat.

Ok so lets list some of the whales they kill.

Fin whale - Endagered
Sei whale - Endagered
Sperm whale - Endangered

Hmmm that seems to be enough evidence for me to say they are hunting endagered species yes?

What i want to know, is from a legal stand point, are they actually breaking any international law? Do they have to prove scientific research if they are only killing say 50 of a particular species?

 

[nioka]

Ok so lets list some of the whales they kill.

Fin whale - Endagered
Sei whale - Endagered
Sperm whale - Endangered

Hmmm that seems to be enough evidence for me to say they are hunting endagered species yes?

What i want to know, is from a legal stand point, are they actually breaking any international law? Do they have to prove scientific research if they are only killing say 50 of a particular species?

When was the last Fin whale killed?

When was the last Sei whale killed?

When was the last Sperm whale killed? ( I dispute the fact that sperm whales are endangered.)

Are the Japenese killing any of those whales? Certainly not in the antartic.

You forgot the Blue whale which is not being targeted and still accepted as endangered.

Your post adds to the fact that you do not know what you are talking about.

The question is " are whale numbers of certain species of whales capable of sustaininable harvesting". The answer is "Yes, without any doubt". So all we are left with is the cuddly factor.

You forgot the Right whale that has been endangered for almost 100 years. You forgot that the whalers of the 50s accepted that they were endangered and had them on the banned list even when whaling was at its high point.

As regards Sei whales. The best whale meat with the best colour and texture comes from the Sei whale.

 

[BlingBling]

Your post adds to the fact that you do not know what you are talking about.

The question is " are whale numbers of certain species of whales capable of sustaininable harvesting". The answer is "Yes, without any doubt". So all we are left with is the cuddly factor.

LOL, NFI!!!
Amazing how many people jup on this stupid bandwagon without any knowledge of WTF they are talking about!

 

[IFocus]

When was the last Fin whale killed?

When was the last Sei whale killed?

When was the last Sperm whale killed?

Reported...........2008

 

[IFocus]

Ronny Reagan god bless him.....

Given the lack of any evidence that Japan is bringing its whaling activities into conformance with the recommendations of the IWC, I am directing the Secretary of State under the Packwood-Magnuson Amendment to withhold 100 percent of the fishing privileges that would otherwise be available to Japan in the U.S. Exclusive Economic Zone. Japan has requested the opportunity to fish for 3,000 metric tons of sea snails and 5,000 metric tons of Pacific whiting. These requests will be denied. In addition, Japan will be barred from any future allocations of fishing privileges for any other species, including Pacific cod, until the Secretary of Commerce determines that the situation has been corrected. [46]

U.S. President Ronald Reagan, 1988

 

[lukeaye]

When was the last Fin whale killed?

When was the last Sei whale killed?

When was the last Sperm whale killed? ( I dispute the fact that sperm whales are endangered.)

Yes ifocus said it, it was 2008? So pretty recently.

Blue whales havent been reported as being killed.

I wasn't just listing endagered whales? Just the ones the Japanese have killed.

Well im sure we will take an unbias, educated opinion from an ex-whaler, nioka

 

[Logique]

By all means if there is hard evidence that the Japanese fleet is killing endangered species then let's see it, and the fleet should be held accountable for it. But their target Minkes are not to my knowledge endangered, nor for that matter are Humpbacks. Humpback numbers have rebounded, they are not declining. Ask any whale cruise operator or sailor along the east coast.

I say let's show some respect for a sovereign nation that has always looked to the sea for food resources. There are people in this debate who just don't like the idea of killing even a single whale, but more important considerations at stake. The lessons of history, especially the factors behind Japan's entry into WWII, mandate diplomatic caution and a factual basis to all deliberations.

The Fed Govt's confrontational attitude to Japan is immature and counter-productive, with not a little domestic political expediency in it, and in my view is contrary our national interest.

 

[Macquack]

The last time Japanese ships came uninvited into Australian waters was World War 2.

I believe many Australians still resent the Japanese for their attacks on Australia. Irrespective of the whaling issue, the Japanese whalers show the same arrogant behaviour that their forefathers displayed during WW2.

The fact that Japan does not recognise our territorial claims is not an excuse to yield to the Japanese whalers and allow them to fish in our waters.

I say "f*ck off" to the Japanese whalers and good on the protestors for standing up to these superior, aggrogant bastards.

 

[nioka]

Well im sure we will take an unbias, educated opinion from an ex-whaler, nioka

Never said I wasn't biased. However my bias towards whaling is based on facts. I was against whaling while there was a danger of extintion. That danger has passed for some species. I believe that Australia, itself, should make use of the now abundant resource and allow some whaling with sustainable quotas. I hope I do have an educated opinion.

All the facts show that it is only the cuddly factor, presented mainly by whale watch companies with a vested interest, that is preventing it happening.

 

[gordon2007]

The fact that Japan does not recognise our territorial claims

What does WWII have to do with any of this?

Also, are you aware that there are only 6 countries in the world that do recognise these waters as australian? My point is, it's not just Japan that doesn't recognise the national issues of these waters. These waters do not even touch australian land.

 

[Ato]

You know Nazi Germany had a territorial claim on Antarctic waters too. No one owns those waters, and the 'territorial claims' are a joke. They are not Australian waters...seriously...

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Whats happening now with the Sea Lambchop and Captain America in the Southern Ocean.

If the Japs had fought clean like this is WW2 they might have won.

gg

 

[Macquack]

You know Nazi Germany had a territorial claim on Antarctic waters too. No one owns those waters, and the 'territorial claims' are a joke. They are not Australian waters...seriously...

Seriously, the Australian Government disagrees with your view Ato.

Your country of residence says a lot about your position on whaling.

Ato
Ato is credit to team



Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Japan
Posts: 110