Whale wars

[Mofra]

Yes, but don't you think it strange that these rich playboys are legally allowed to torture black marlin just for the thrill of it. If they caught crocodiles on hooks just for the thrill of it they would be arrested, and yet I have never heard of a marlin attacking a human.

We can argue all sorts of perceived injustices, but legitimate fishing in an area where it is permitted is neither illegal nor could I as a fish-eater condemn it without becoming a hypocrite.

I'm not sure all the clients are "rich playboys" either, but arguing semantics would derail the thread given I understand the point you are making.

I've eaten Chocodile before as well so I'm not aware of the conditions upon which they are allowed to be caught.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Hunters and fishermen seem to be fair game for these politically correct times.

I remember going fox hunting in the UK years ago, now one has to go the the USA if one wishes to hunt.

Folk like their food in a sanitised way, but behind every woolies and coles is a mountain of barborous slaughter to provide cling wrapped morsels for a hungry nation.

We are way too sanitised and have little understanding of how food is obtained. Visit a meatworks and then comment on whales.

Same with the Japanese. They are different and have a different world view. I don't agree with that view, but I'd be called racist if I expressed it less in greater specifics.

I hope the Japs and the Greens beat the crap out of each other.

gg

 

[Sdajii]

We can argue all sorts of perceived injustices, but legitimate fishing in an area where it is permitted is neither illegal nor could I as a fish-eater condemn it without becoming a hypocrite.

I'm not sure all the clients are "rich playboys" either, but arguing semantics would derail the thread given I understand the point you are making.

I've eaten Chocodile before as well so I'm not aware of the conditions upon which they are allowed to be caught.

One argument against sport fishing is that it involves impaling a fish's mouth on a barbed hook, dragging it through the water by that barbed hook, as it struggles, sometimes for hours, then holding it out of water (somewhat like us being dragged around with a barbed spike through our lip then held underwater briefly) and then thrown back, just for fun. I think it is silly to complain about fishing for food, but those who say sport fishing is inhumane certainly do have a valid case. If people wanted to do the same type of thing with any other animal, there would be a massive outcry, but the fishing culture is so widespread that it is able to resist the opposing public opinion.

I personally love fishing, but my choice is to only fish for food. If I don't want want it in my belly, I don't want to catch it. That's just a personal choice though.

Crocodile meat in Australia is farmed. It's a by product of the skin farms. It's my second favourite white meat (cat comes first). Yum!

 

[Dowdy]

True. And using your logic, some species die out. Evolution works right?

Yes it does. Before humans were around species died out naturally and others flourished and new species spawned to adapt to a new natural environment.

The only argument for a ban on whaling is the cuddly one. Whales are a massive resource. They are a top predator

Whales aren't considered predators. Don't know where you got that info, unless you just made that up?

It is true that if whales are not killed, they will eat more krill, which leaves less for fish, which means there is less fish for us to eat (or we could go more directly and harvest the krill for ourselves to eat, which would probably upset few people).

That's not true. Do you have any source to suggest that krill population is being threatened since whales were considered protected? Besides they also eat plankton aswell, you know...




I'm against what the protesters are doing. Right intentions but wrong approach. Although, ironically, if they died when that cool stealth boat got rammed it would of almost certainly made the governments do something straight away.

 

[Fishbulb]

Yes it does. Before humans were around species died out naturally and others flourished and new species spawned to adapt to a new natural environment.

So, according to you and others like you, humans are an unnatural species who are somehow remote and removed not only from nature, but from the entire evolutionary cycle?




I don't thnk so.

 

[derty]

It is true that if whales are not killed, they will eat more krill, which leaves less for fish, which means there is less fish for us to eat (or we could go more directly and harvest the krill for ourselves to eat, which would probably upset few people).

Surely the logic here should be; Whale numbers are vastly reduced. Fish stocks are vastly reduced. Hence the krill predators are vastly reduced and therefore krill should be more numerous than ever and be able to support, with surplus, both whale and fish populations.

 

[Sdajii]

Oh for Pete's sake. If you want to split hairs, okay.

Whales eat krill. If you want to say that their mode of catching these living animals does not constitute predation, fine, whatever. The fact is, they are massive animals, they have no natural predators, and a biological response to this is not to have rapid reproduction or growth. Thus, they are vulnerable to rapid harvesting, as is any top predator (or animal which is very large with a slow reproductive rate if you want to split hairs, or if you want to use biology jargon, is a k-selected species rather than an r-selected species).

Yes, some whales eat phytoplankton, yes, you can split hairs if you like. Others (Orcas) are undeniably predatory in every sense.

Krill is not being 'threatened' with extinction, but there is plenty of research to show that the whale population affects the krill population, and in any case it's a nobrainer. Increase the numbers of the thing that eats something else, and you generally reduce the population of the thing that gets eaten. Noticed the number of tuna in the sea going down? Yeah, that's because we're eating them. Same thing.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Surely the logic here should be; Whale numbers are vastly reduced. Fish stocks are vastly reduced. Hence the krill predators are vastly reduced and therefore krill should be more numerous than ever and be able to support, with surplus, both whale and fish populations.

zactly, I'm glad someone else pointed it out.

Supply and demand.

gg

 

[Sdajii]

Surely the logic here should be; Whale numbers are vastly reduced. Fish stocks are vastly reduced. Hence the krill predators are vastly reduced and therefore krill should be more numerous than ever and be able to support, with surplus, both whale and fish populations.

In the short term, you could look at it like that, but that's not relevant to the equilibrium we should be aiming for. No point looking at the current situation and basing your ongoing strategy on it. That's what we have traditionally done with wild fish harvesting for example, and look what that has done to the wild fish populations.

Slightly less on topic, pollution and climate changes have been affecting krill numbers negatively, although I question the research because it's difficult to properly account for the affects of fluctuating whale populations, etc, so measuring any particular variable's affect is unreliable.

 

[Wysiwyg]

So, according to you and others like you, humans are an unnatural species who are somehow remote and removed not only from nature, but from the entire evolutionary cycle?




I don't thnk so.

I'm one of those believers.

 

[Fishbulb]

I'm one of those believers.

Oh there's plenty, I know that. But unfortunately, they are deluded, megalomaniacal in a lot of cases, and believe they can control a planet's weather cycles.

 

[Calliope]

Whales aren't considered predators. Don't know where you got that info, unless you just made that up?

Minke Whales are known to eat a wide range of fish species including krill, capeline, herring, sand lance, mackerel, gadoids, cod, saithe and haddock (Haug et al, 1996). Minke Whales are estimated to consume 633,000 tons of Atlantic herring per year in part of Northeast Atlantic (Folkow et al, 1997). In the Barents Sea, it is estimated that a net economic loss of five tons of cod and herring per fishery results from every additional Minke Whale in the population due the fish consumption of the single whale (Schweder, et al, 2000).

If that's not a predator, it will do until one comes along.

 

[Nyden]

Crocodile meat in Australia is farmed. It's a by product of the skin farms. It's my second favourite white meat (cat comes first). Yum!

You actually eat cat? Where do you get this cat meat from? Do you have a pile of flea-collars in your recycling bin, or is there perhaps an Asian cuisine store that has it? We all know what goes into Chinese take out, after all

Honestly, I've never seen cat meat, ever, anywhere!

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

You actually eat cat? Where do you get this cat meat from? Do you have a pile of flea-collars in your recycling bin, or is there perhaps an Asian cuisine store that has it? We all know what goes into Chinese take out, after all

Honestly, I've never seen cat meat, ever, anywhere!

The meat comes from cats, I believe.

Travel to Vietnam, China or E.Timor.

Its as common there as basket eaters in Balmain.

gg

 

[nioka]

If that's not a predator, it will do until one comes along.

I used to sample the stomach contents of whales for the CSIRO. The story that the whales don't eat during the migration is false. They regularly contain pilchards and herring and at times some sea birds. Probably the seabirds were ingested by being in the wrong place at the time, probably feeding on the same fish as the whales.

I have often seen whales in a feeding frenzy.Particularly Sei whales but plenty of humpbacks also.

The Sperm whale eats mainly the giant squid. (And Moby dick if available!!!)

From a recent story of humpback whales feeding;

"Astonishing pictures show how a Devon kayaker got up close and personal with a humpback whale feeding frenzy
By David Wilkes
Last updated at 10:40 AM on 05th January 2010
Comments (63) Add to My Stories
When you’re in a tiny kayak and a 40-ton giant of the deep decides he’s a bit peckish, the sensible option is to scarper as fast as your paddle can carry you.
But wildlife photographer Duncan Murrell does the opposite. To capture images of humpback whales feeding and surging through the surf off Alaska, he often ventures within 15ft of the fearsome creatures.
The humpbacks, which can grow to more than 50ft, spend most of their time under water and can dive for up to 30 minutes, so being in the right place at the right time to see them requires skill and luck.
Mr Murrell, 56, from Paignton, Devon, anticipates where they will surface by watching out for bubbles – a sign that a group of humpbacks are working together to capture a shoal of herring.
One whale swims in a circle while blowing bubbles under the fish. When the bubbles rise, the herring form into a tight ball in the centre of the circle.
Other whales grunt and scream to scare the herring to the surface, and in a wall of spray they all then rise with their huge mouths open to enjoy their feast. On average, one humpback eats around 5,000lb of plankton, krill and fish a day.
‘When the feeding group explodes into view I have only a split second to decide whether I should either have my camera in my hands or my paddle to take evasive action,’ said Mr Murrell. ‘Their habit of leaping out of the water without warning provides the ultimate adrenaline rush.’ "


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...eding-frenzy---taken-kayak.html#ixzz0bypbCCUw


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...eding-frenzy---taken-kayak.html#ixzz0bypbCCUw

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Jeez, where is Jonah,

He hasn't posted on ASF for ages now.

Krill out Jonah, pride your swallow and post again.

gg

 

[nioka]

On average, one humpback eats around 5,000lb of plankton, krill and fish a day.

5,000 pounds a day. Now that is some predator.

 

[Nyden]

The meat comes from cats, I believe.

Travel to Vietnam, China or E.Timor.

Its as common there as basket eaters in Balmain.

gg

Are these domesticated animals that go missing, or do they have cat farms? I still can't envision the 'source' for all of these cats!

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Are these domesticated animals that go missing, or do they have cat farms? I still can't envision the 'source' for all of these cats!

Dogs and cats are kept much as goats or other animals are, roaming free until needed.

Then one fine night they are put on a chain or in a cage.

The cat or dog usually knows whats up. Its pitiful to hear their yelps once tied up or caged.

This is off topic though.

Anyone seen Jonah?

gg

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

That's flawed logic. There has been a natural balance for millions of years

The Japanese eat fish like you could not believe. IF the fish decline more whales will be eaten. The natural balance is not a given perfect set of conditions.