Western society is doomed

[basilio]

You haven'y been around much have you. Even the Raffles Hotel in Singapore is a celebrated tradition.

Hate of the British Empire is merely a display at the frustration of being born a genetically second rate human. There's a reason genuine whitey is a mere fraction of the world's population, yet dominates it by birthright. Something incalculable by those 97% born not so well skilled.

You all realise that Tizzie was just being sarcastic don't you ? Just a bit of 'armless d(t)rollery dressed up in delibrately ridiculous imperialism?
All sucked in arn't you now ? What do you believe ? What do you want to believe ? What should you believe ? What do we take "seriously" ?

What do we let slide as a bad joke ?

What do we laugh at nervously or otherwise ?

What do we call out ?
____________________________________________

By the way Tisme you are dead wrong in your denial of the British in slave trading, Opium running and running concentration camps in South Africa. I would have guessed that someone as well read as you would realise that so your denials or misdirection pose some interesting questions.

 

[luutzu]

The Egyptians and Babylonians were leaders in maths and science for centuries. They went downhill very quickly once they found their own brand of religion.

Then the Brits took over in science and maths. Newton, Maxwell, Rutherford etc, then the Yanks took over by sheer weight of resources resulting from plundering their continent.

Not to mention that Indians (sub continent) has a rich tradition in maths as well.

Empires rise and fall. I don't really believe that any race is more intelligent than any other, but the Brits/Americans have embraced science and technology because it enables them to control others, other countries control their people using religion, and that's where science usually ends.

My memory of ME history is a bit hazy, but the hey days of ancient Egypt and Babylon/Persia was taken over by the Greeks following Alexander.

Alexander's generals divvy up the empire, mixing themselves in among the barbarians to such an extend that it soon became hard to tell what's Greek and what's native in, say, Ptolemy's Egypt.

So lots of M/E science and knowledge was mixed in with Greeks... until Rome burned and salted Carthage [modern day Libya?] to gain supremacy over the Mediterranean. Moved to Alexandria, burnt that great library, took Greek's science and myth blah blah.

These were some 7 centuries or more before Muhammad was called to the mountain. And by my understanding, Islam "unite" the Middle East and ruled it with love, kindness and no doubt a crap load of operation liberation freedom civilising missions until all either believe in Muhammad or pay higher taxes.

So science, progress and stuff flourished under Islam during its days of empire and being that indispensable, God-fearing state.


Every country control its people by religion. In Western countries, God is often separated from Church but some still managed to bring back the good old days. That and they have a better god with a more powerful religion: Money and freedom to plunder and exploit.

 

[basilio]

British History as it was
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6185756.stm
https://www.thoughtco.com/the-first-and-second-opium-wars-195276
http://www.historywiz.com/didyouknow/concentrationcamp.htm

 

[luutzu]

An example of Western decline:

Trump on Puerto Rico: It's surrounded by water, big water, sea water.

Though the fact that two comedians can laugh at the emperor and still not disappeared... there's some hope.

 

[Tisme]

My memory of ME history is a bit hazy, but the hey days of ancient Egypt and Babylon/Persia was taken over by the Greeks following Alexander.

Alexander's generals divvy up the empire, mixing themselves in among the barbarians to such an extend that it soon became hard to tell what's Greek and what's native in, say, Ptolemy's Egypt.

So lots of M/E science and knowledge was mixed in with Greeks... until Rome burned and salted Carthage [modern day Libya?] to gain supremacy over the Mediterranean. Moved to Alexandria, burnt that great library, took Greek's science and myth blah blah.

These were some 7 centuries or more before Muhammad was called to the mountain. And by my understanding, Islam "unite" the Middle East and ruled it with love, kindness and no doubt a crap load of operation liberation freedom civilising missions until all either believe in Muhammad or pay higher taxes.

So science, progress and stuff flourished under Islam during its days of empire and being that indispensable, God-fearing state.


Every country control its people by religion. In Western countries, God is often separated from Church but some still managed to bring back the good old days. That and they have a better god with a more powerful religion: Money and freedom to plunder and exploit.

The problem with regurgitating the past to suit an argument are the factors many of us, blessed with vast knowledge and balance, are all too well aware of, especially students of Darwin. When you parade fiction dressed up as fact you are displaying your bias for all the world to see, albeit disguised behind a facade of self interest. These are critical issues that must be addressed in marketing:

Firstly you must make the distinctions between truth, expectations and falsehoods. Our brains are wired for political bias and we can't do anything to rid ourselves of tribal bias, which is the core question being posed by WayneL and his concern for the terminal condition of our once great culture

To go back in history to prove the present is a great way to apply personal bias'. In marketing you/we must accommodate these bias' and be aware that frequency often gazumps probability:


1) age bias
2) gender bias
3) Over confidence bias (something I'm not susceptible to)
4) Rationalsim
5) Hindsight bias
6) Fallacious Conjunctions
7) Base rate fallacy
8) Racial, ethnic and cultural bias

Maslow's theory aside, one of the biggest drivers for arguing the toss when confronted with a superior protagonist is heuristics, where we assume something that agrees with our point of view is much more valid than something we know nothing or little of. When heuristic boundaries are encountered in an argument generality often replaces specificity.

The fallback is to recognition of names, places, trauma, etc. Often that heuristic single minded point of view has a truer decision merit than Bayes theorem or the multiple points of evidence that the Perry Mason people would use to prove their own intransigent point of view.

As has been proven time and time again on this forum, I have a solid heuristic core that is predicated on fact and nothing but the facts. After relentlessly asking for proof of argument using facts, the score so far is Tisme: 1,347 Others: Zip. My record rests on its own merits and I rest my case.

 

[luutzu]

The problem with regurgitating the past to suit an argument are the factors many of us, blessed with vast knowledge and balance, are all too well aware of, especially students of Darwin. When you parade fiction dressed up as fact you are displaying your bias for all the world to see, albeit disguised behind a facade of self interest. These are critical issues that must be addressed in marketing:

Firstly you must make the distinctions between truth, expectations and falsehoods. Our brains are wired for political bias and we can't do anything to rid ourselves of tribal bias, which is the core question being posed by WayneL and his concern for the terminal condition of our once great culture

To go back in history to prove the present is a great way to apply personal bias'. In marketing you/we must accommodate these bias' and be aware that frequency often gazumps probability:


1) age bias
2) gender bias
3) Over confidence bias (something I'm not susceptible to)
4) Rationalsim
5) Hindsight bias
6) Fallacious Conjunctions
7) Base rate fallacy
8) Racial, ethnic and cultural bias

Maslow's theory aside, one of the biggest drivers for arguing the toss when confronted with a superior protagonist is heuristics, where we assume something that agrees with our point of view is much more valid than something we know nothing or little of. When heuristic boundaries are encountered in an argument generality often replaces specificity.

The fallback is to recognition of names, places, trauma, etc. Often that heuristic single minded point of view has a truer decision merit than Bayes theorem or the multiple points of evidence that the Perry Mason people would use to prove their own intransigent point of view.

As has been proven time and time again on this forum, I have a solid heuristic core that is predicated on fact and nothing but the facts. After relentlessly asking for proof of argument using facts, the score so far is Tisme: 1,347 Others: Zip. My record rests on its own merits and I rest my case.

Brought back memories of uni days where I would open a textbook, read to the third paragraph and realise I have no idea what the egghead was on about.

I thought Maslow was on about the hierarchy of needs. He talks about biases too?

I would have to fire up Google to translate your, somewhat insightful, essay there. But it's too early for that, the coffee haven't kicked in yet. Which reminds me, gotta buy proper Woolies Select coffee and milk, this Asian pre-packed mix of "coffee" and white powder won't do.

 

[Tisme]

Brought back memories of uni days where I would open a textbook, read to the third paragraph and realise I have no idea what the egghead was on about.

I thought Maslow was on about the hierarchy of needs. He talks about biases too?

I would have to fire up Google to translate your, somewhat insightful, essay there. But it's too early for that, the coffee haven't kicked in yet. Which reminds me, gotta buy proper Woolies Select coffee and milk, this Asian pre-packed mix of "coffee" and white powder won't do.

Remember that knowledge is power my son.

Maslow's hierarchy is marketing 101 and as is a mouthful of word speak like "early adopters", "target market' etc. Real marketing, as opposed to it's reincarnation in recent years as an arts degree, is about mathematics, datasets, human behaviour, products and services, manipulation, and all those "isms" and models.

Necessarily, human decision making is described in terms similar in complexity to why vegemite is a standout when compared to marmite and promite..... some things (and some of use) are just irrefutably correct.

 

[Value Collector]

I wonder what our culture will look like in fifty or a hundred years if it exists at all.

Has there been a 100 year period where our culture hasn't significantly changed?

 

[luutzu]

Remember that knowledge is power my son.

Maslow's hierarchy is marketing 101 and as is a mouthful of word speak like "early adopters", "target market' etc. Real marketing, as opposed to it's reincarnation in recent years as an arts degree, is about mathematics, datasets, human behaviour, products and services, manipulation, and all those "isms" and models.

Necessarily, human decision making is described in terms similar in complexity to why vegemite is a standout when compared to marmite and promite..... some things (and some of use) are just irrefutably correct.

C'on, knowledge is not power.
Money and gunpowder is power.
You, being English, should know that better than most.

Knowledge that leads to money can be said to be power. But only once it produces money. Before the cash comes in, it's just an idiot being irresponsible with his time where real smart people work 9 to 5, earn $100K a year and "owns" 3 properties, a BMW and take annual holidays overseas.

Knowledge itself, for its own sake, is only for amusement on internet forums.

---------

Yea, real marketing can be all that fancy maths, data analysis, quality products and services... That or gunboats and a Marshall Plan.

 

[luutzu]

Has there been a 100 year period where our culture hasn't significantly changed?

But dude, change was necessary in the olden days when things were bad. In today's modern world, who needs change when we have things are great as they are.

Just look at today's effeminate girly men and wanting equality, helping their wive with child rearing and domestic housework. prffff... going down the tube this place. Gonna be taken over by the Chinese and Arabs who do real manly stuff and beats all their wives, without alcohol too!

 

[Tisme]

C'on, knowledge is not power.
Money and gunpowder is power.
You, being English, should know that better than most.

Knowledge that leads to money can be said to be power. But only once it produces money. Before the cash comes in, it's just an idiot being irresponsible with his time where real smart people work 9 to 5, earn $100K a year and "owns" 3 properties, a BMW and take annual holidays overseas.

Knowledge itself, for its own sake, is only for amusement on internet forums.

---------

Yea, real marketing can be all that fancy maths, data analysis, quality products and services... That or gunboats and a Marshall Plan.

Correction I'm an Australphobe who concedes, perhaps begrudgingly, that the Brits are the reason for the rule of law, for the industrial revolution, for the innovation revolution, for commerce, for whiteman's rule, and for Australia as we knew it a few years back before imported arcane perversion grew legs and took over our social and political must needs.

We have become a pussy nation of bleeding hearts where the comfort of the few social 'tards is more important than the mob.

One thing remains constant:

 

[albaby]

Great article in the Oz today,I don't share Matt Ridleys' optimism.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...s/news-story/8de1283fe163dcccc2d68b3cf7f1408a

 

[Tisme]

Great article in the Oz today,I don't share Matt Ridleys' optimism.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...s/news-story/8de1283fe163dcccc2d68b3cf7f1408a

His blog is a good read:

I am fairly certain that the Enlightenment is not over, that discovery and reason will overwhelm dogma and superstition. Seven years ago my book The Rational Optimist set out a positive vision of the world. But the spread of fundamentalist Islam, the growth of Hindu nationalism and Russian autocracy, the intolerance of dissent in western universities and the puritanical hectoring of social media give grounds for concern that the flowering of freedom in the past several centuries may come under threat. We have a fight on our hands.

 

[luutzu]

Correction I'm an Australphobe who concedes, perhaps begrudgingly, that the Brits are the reason for the rule of law, for the industrial revolution, for the innovation revolution, for commerce, for whiteman's rule, and for Australia as we knew it a few years back before imported arcane perversion grew legs and took over our social and political must needs.

We have become a pussy nation of bleeding hearts where the comfort of the few social 'tards is more important than the mob.

One thing remains constant:

View attachment 72838

Australphobe? So you dislike or loathe Australia? tut tut.

Are you trying to pull a Chinese with all that claims about British innovation and white goodness?

What else was left out in them innovation and civilising burden? The list is way too long we're lucky the Indians and Arabs invented the proper numerals instead of sticking to Roman Numerals widely used across its former colonies

And no, the first rule of law was the Code of Hammurabi, in Babylon around 1700 before God sent his one and only son - Superman Followed by other culture, probably China with the LEGALIST starting with Lord Shang around 800BCE. That's some 800 years before the first Caesar got bored of conquering most of the civilised world and decided to take a boat ride over the channel to collect a few savages to the collection.

Might surprised you that most of the mob are fine with gays and their having equal rights.

 

[Tisme]

Australphobe? So you dislike or loathe Australia? tut tut.

Are you trying to pull a Chinese with all that claims about British innovation and white goodness?

What else was left out in them innovation and civilising burden? The list is way too long we're lucky the Indians and Arabs invented the proper numerals instead of sticking to Roman Numerals widely used across its former colonies

And no, the first rule of law was the Code of Hammurabi, in Babylon around 1700 before God sent his one and only son - Superman Followed by other culture, probably China with the LEGALIST starting with Lord Shang around 800BCE. That's some 800 years before the first Caesar got bored of conquering most of the civilised world and decided to take a boat ride over the channel to collect a few savages to the collection.

Might surprised you that most of the mob are fine with gays and their having equal rights.

You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Of course the Brits gave us the rule of law and parliaments. Why is it whenever someone loses an argument they resort to an irrelevant primitive history for precedence.

Britain was the greatest empire there ever was and it sponged on every culture it seconded to make it and its possessions enriched with the cross pollination of ideas and skills that make up modern societies around the world. The political, technological, industrial, labour and innovation revolutions were all born out of Britain, forget about ground rhinoceros horn and shark fin soup, and get onboard with the smart folk.

 

[SirRumpole]

You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Of course the Brits gave us the rule of law and parliaments. Why is it whenever someone loses an argument they resort to an irrelevant primitive history for precedence.

Britain was the greatest empire there ever was and it sponged on every culture it seconded to make it and its possessions enriched with the cross pollination of ideas and skills that make up modern societies around the world. The political, technological, industrial, labour and innovation revolutions were all born out of Britain, forget about ground rhinoceros horn and shark fin soup, and get onboard with the smart folk.

I never liked Yorkshire puddings or dumplings much though.

As for warm beer, well ...

 

[SirRumpole]

Our government and institutions have to have the balls to stand up to this sort of cultural imperialism, or we will be forced under.

Australia's universities are failing to protect free speech

Academic freedom is increasingly under threat on Australian campuses, and widespread speech codes leave universities unprepared to combat the danger.

The latest threat comes from a new source: Chinese students, on four known occasions this year, have pressured academics to modify material to align with Chinese government foreign policy.

At the University of Newcastle, a lecturer who listed Hong Kong and Taiwan as separate territories faced social media condemnation and even Chinese consulate pressure.

This came after an offended student covertly recorded, and uploaded, their censorious demands. "You have to consider all the students' feelings," the student says in the widely shared video. "You have to show your respect".

The lecturer appropriately responded: "If you feel offended about it, that is your opinion."

In other instances universities have not stood up to the pressure. The University of Sydney apologised after a lecturer used a map that displayed disputed territory as part of India and Bhutan rather than within China's borders.

Monash University has withdrawn a textbook that included a quiz question which offended Chinese students. The Monash academic who set the quiz was temporarily suspended, and has now voluntarily left the university following the furore.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-...es-are-failing-to-protest-free-speech/9007346

If Chinese students enter into this sort of subversive activity they should be thrown out, and not have their fees refunded. It's disgraceful.

 

[orr]

The political, technological, industrial, labour and innovation revolutions were all born out of Britain,

?????

Gunpowder ? *Where's the 'Empire without that?
Copernicus ? *see above
Galileo ? *see above
The Renaissance? *Does life imitate art or visa v
The enlightenment? *see above...
Double Entry book keeping? *Wedgwood would have gone broke without it.
etc,etc
FFS!
You can see along way when you stand on the shoulders of giants... Even over the Channel.

The above are but one, more or less from the 'west'. City states of the Continent.
And it's a big swim from Britain to pick up Tom Payne's 'Rights of Man' hot off the press.
Plenty of Witch burning going on all over the place at that time as well. A practice Tony Abbot, Alan Jones and pack of other commercially microphoned mental midgets would be all to happy to re-instate as a town square entertainment.
A little bit of looking further afield on education might address what seem some deficiency's here.
May I suggest Worlds best practice the Finish model.

 

[Tisme]

?????

Gunpowder ? *Where's the 'Empire without that?
Copernicus ? *see above
Galileo ? *see above
The Renaissance? *Does life imitate art or visa v
The enlightenment? *see above...
Double Entry book keeping? *Wedgwood would have gone broke without it.
etc,etc
FFS!
You can see along way when you stand on the shoulders of giants... Even over the Channel.

The above are but one, more or less from the 'west'. City states of the Continent.
And it's a big swim from Britain to pick up Tom Payne's 'Rights of Man' hot off the press.
Plenty of Witch burning going on all over the place at that time as well. A practice Tony Abbot, Alan Jones and pack of other commercially microphoned mental midgets would be all to happy to re-instate as a town square entertainment.
A little bit of looking further afield on education might address what seem some deficiency's here.
May I suggest Worlds best practice the Finish model.

Once again you are relying on primitives to bolster an argument about modern industrialised society.

Who cares that China managed to make some cracker black powder. The first real use of "gunpowder" was by the Brits against Calais in the 14 century.

Copernicas, Galilleo, Victa lawn mowers and hills hoists all great discoveries, but pale in the face of the sheer mass of British enterprise, protestantism, and cando.

 

[luutzu]

Once again you are relying on primitives to bolster an argument about modern industrialised society.

Who cares that China managed to make some cracker black powder. The first real use of "gunpowder" was by the Brits against Calais in the 14 century.

Copernicas, Galilleo, Victa lawn mowers and hills hoists all great discoveries, but pale in the face of the sheer mass of British enterprise, protestantism, and cando.

Fighting words from a country that was a sunny day's away from being a colony of Spain, then France, then Nazi Germany.

Btw, aren't the Poms pretty much the bastard child of French's Normandy?