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IFocus said:
Agree also governments ran down training centres and farmed apprentice training out to private enterprise the last company I worked for we fought tooth and nail for them to hire a single E/I apprentice place had a annual operational budget of $350 mil...
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Kinda the other way 'round these days. We can't get apprentices to start in my trade, and if they do start, they don't last long.

I'm told it's similar in other trades.

COVID welfare is partly to blame, but that trend was in place even before TBH.
 
IFocus said:
Agree also governments ran down training centres and farmed apprentice training out to private enterprise the last company I worked for we fought tooth and nail for them to hire a single E/I apprentice place had a annual operational budget of $350 mil...
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Yep, I remember when I was seconded to help write the competency standards, I said to management this is the beginning of the end for the high standard Australian tradesmen are held in. It was a disgrace IMO.
 
IFocus said:
Agree also governments ran down training centres and farmed apprentice training out to private enterprise the last company I worked for we fought tooth and nail for them to hire a single E/I apprentice place had a annual operational budget of $350 mil...
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Yes, I was at a meeting with the manager of a major power station and he actually said we are going to severely reduce the number of apprentices we employ, I said at the time Australia will rue the day it took this direction and as I mentioned above, we commenced writing the competency standards project.
Now we have gone from one of the highest standard of apprenticeship training programs in the world, to a shambles in 30 years.
 
sptrawler said:
Apprenticeships has been an ongoing issue for a long time, its demise has been three fold, one was the closing of a lot of Government facilities e.g the Midland railway workshops, they took on 800 apprentices a year and two the contracting out of maintenance and three fifo.
The mining towns that were established in the 1960' and 1970's held the full compliment of the workforce and the families of the workers, so inevitably children of the workers did apprenticeships in the mine workshops.
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in 1975 Gough Whitlem signed the Lima declaration ending Australian sovereignty and kick starting globalisation. this of course took several years to come in to effect ending there manufacturing side and turning the economy in to a services bases economy, restructuring how companies do business.hence government work places still use enterprise agreements and private business its an open market economy

sptrawler said:
Now with fifo, that consistency of a stable community has gone, a majority of the workforce doesn't live there, major works are now done via shutdowns as opposed to ongoing daily maintenance workforce and the community no longer is employed by a single or a couple of major mining companies. From memory, the fifo workforce came about with the introduction of fringe benefits tax, which made it more attractive to fly a workforce in, than house them and pay fringe benefits tax.

Hopefully things go a complete circle, as with a carbon tax the cost of flying may be even more expensive, also with the advent of massive renewable projects in the NW of W.A a labour force close by may be required.
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most thing in mining is labor hire as companies dont look any further than 3 months ahead. the management of labor is beyond a joke
in the late 2000s the bhp, rio tints lobbied the government allowing the change of work place laws to keep employees casual as a way to scare wages down and allow the exploitation of industry and business at the expense of the employee

they won't get people back to living in town as they are dumps and mining companies put little money in to them. they dont pay any added incentive to stay in them and little job security, so what's the point in making the sacrifice in moving the family up to one.
the money as I said earlier is still lower than a decade ago whilst the incompetent muppets who work in the ivory towers collect there largely over boated pay packets for out sourcing most things and never bing held to account for there incompetence
 
Investoradam said:
in 1975 Gough Whitlem signed the Lima declaration ending Australian sovereignty and kick starting globalisation. this of course took several years to come in to effect ending there manufacturing side and turning the economy in to a services bases economy, restructuring how companies do business.hence government work places still use enterprise agreements and private business its an open market economy


most thing in mining is labor hire as companies dont look any further than 3 months ahead. the management of labor is beyond a joke
in the late 2000s the bhp, rio tints lobbied the government allowing the change of work place laws to keep employees casual as a way to scare wages down and allow the exploitation of industry and business at the expense of the employee

they won't get people back to living in town as they are dumps and mining companies put little money in to them. they dont pay any added incentive to stay in them and little job security, so what's the point in making the sacrifice in moving the family up to one.
the money as I said earlier is still lower than a decade ago whilst the incompetent muppets who work in the ivory towers collect there largely over boated pay packets for out sourcing most things and never bing held to account for there incompetence
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C'mon Mate. Who on earth wouldn't want to give up FIFO and live in places like Meekathera? I mean what a fantastic place to raise a young family. On weekends you could even take the kids to visit Wiluna.

....All these Perth based clowns think FIFO causes depression and suicides clearly never lived in a small mining or industrial town....

A mining tradesman with at least 5 years in mining could reasonably expect to earn $65/hour + super right now without having to look too hard. That's darn good money, and there are plenty of people willing to take apprentices - what there is a short supply of is people willing to be an apprentice when they could be a laborer and make more money. But I agree the industry and government could do better with apprentices, they need to advertise and market the benefits and how it works to small employers.
 
The Triangle said:
C'mon Mate. Who on earth wouldn't want to give up FIFO and live in places like Meekathera? I mean what a fantastic place to raise a young family. On weekends you could even take the kids to visit Wiluna.
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That is true triangle, but Australia can't develop unless those places are inhabited, I know it is better to live in Perth but that just isn't sustainable in the long run.
Please don't have a go, I did year 8 ( 1st year high school) by correspondence, living in Dampier in 1968, before Karratha and Wickham were even thought of.
There is no way that Australia can develop, unless the population of the outback increases, if 'green' steel becomes feasible it will have to be manufactured where the raw materials are mined and the 'green' hydrogen is produced. That is the only way the savings will be made. :2twocents


The Triangle said:
....All these Perth based clowns think FIFO causes depression and suicides clearly never lived in a small mining or industrial town....
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There is a lot to be said for a person going home from work to a family every day, the major drawback with fifo is the intimacy between partners is lost and the fifo worker coming home disrupts the household and also has limited time to fit in to the family structure.
If the family lives together they all struggle for the same goals and take credit together for achieving them.
I lived a lot of my childhood years in mining towns and after I married and had a family, we lived in the NW.
I still think it makes for a better family life, if they can live together.
But it isn't something you can debate on a forum, it is something that should be tried before it is put aside, as not an option IMO.

The Triangle said:
A mining tradesman with at least 5 years in mining could reasonably expect to earn $65/hour + super right now without having to look too hard. That's darn good money, and there are plenty of people willing to take apprentices - what there is a short supply of is people willing to be an apprentice when they could be a laborer and make more money. But I agree the industry and government could do better with apprentices, they need to advertise and market the benefits and how it works to small employers.
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Nothing has changed in that regard, when I started my apprenticeship in 1969 I was on $17.32/wk, before I started my apprenticeship but had finished school.
School finished in late November, your 'Junior Certificate" marks didn't come out until late January, so you didn't find out if you had qualified for an apprenticeship.
So between late November and late January, I was a junior labourer on $60/ wk, became an apprentice Electrical/Instrument fitter and went to $17.32 a week.
A mate was an air legger and was paid on the teams tonnage, he was on about $1,500/fortnight, this was in 1972, he bought a 750 Norton Commando with a pay cheque.
I took out a four year loan to buy a 1968 Toyota Crown, that was no chick magnet. ?
That is the one good thing that has happened, with the reduction in apprenticeships, it has lifted the wage relativity for tradespeople.
P.S have lived and worked in Meeka and Wiluna, we always said "if Meeka was the A@3# hole of the world, Wiluna was 200k's up it. ?
But there are some great people live in both places.
 
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If only the parliamentary opposition wasn't full of total incompetents.

 
moXJO said:
Sooo many Nazis.
Who would of thought that yesterday's hippy antivaxxer was today's far right qanon worshipper.
Maybe the media can whip up some more hysteria and convert a few more to the cause:rolleyes:
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People upset about mandates and travel, still vax rates (indigenous still 30%) due to hit 90% Feb.
 
wayneL said:
If only the parliamentary opposition wasn't full of total incompetents.

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Governments should just ignore protesters. Let them protest and say nothing. If they get unruly then send in the police. Chancellor McGowan and his henchman should have kept their mouths shut as going after even a small section of your population with criticism is never is a good idea. Mcgowan can go door to door to get people to vote for him, maybe he should go door to door locally explaining why people should get vaccinated? Better yet fly off to an aboriginal community (haha, yeah right unless he has twiggy to hold his hand for the photo-shoots) Would probably get him a lot of votes and a lot of headlines. No one is going to attack the man, and if they do - he is ex-navy so he should be able to fight back.

My guess is that by the next election the god botherers will have lost their grip on the liberal party and resources will be back in to a low cycle. Labor will probably find it very difficult to retain their power. Leaders never stay popular this long and Mcgowan probably has a year or two left before voter apathy sets in and people wonder what he's done in all these years to advance WA.

Really need western governments to get back to governing the entire population, not just the ones they want to govern.
 
The Triangle said:
C'mon Mate. Who on earth wouldn't want to give up FIFO and live in places like Meekathera? I mean what a fantastic place to raise a young family. On weekends you could even take the kids to visit Wiluna.

....All these Perth based clowns think FIFO causes depression and suicides clearly never lived in a small mining or industrial town....

A mining tradesman with at least 5 years in mining could reasonably expect to earn $65/hour + super right now without having to look too hard. That's darn good money, and there are plenty of people willing to take apprentices - what there is a short supply of is people willing to be an apprentice when they could be a laborer and make more money. But I agree the industry and government could do better with apprentices, they need to advertise and market the benefits and how it works to small employers.
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hope your being sarcastic in that post?
Meekatharra is a dump as with most mining towns, filled with alcohol abuse and marriage brake ups. as most people who have lived in them.
but I you are correct can be a good place to raise a young family for a few years & providing there is an exit strategy.

FIFO had several different types of rosters now most companies are heading towards the 8/6 7/7 ones but traditionally were 2/1 or 4/1 construction rosters.

bellow are wages bhp wages I was receiving around 2012/13 still higher than what they are paying today with direct employees,ouyment not labor hire

that is pocket change as to what the people in the irony towers or perth and Brisbane earn.
 
IFocus said:
People upset about mandates and travel, still vax rates (indigenous still 30%) due to hit 90% Feb.
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Vax rates in nsw are running above 90%.
Should hit 95% or above. I would say a good number of those protesters are probably vaccinated.

So Australia's most right leaning state has over 90% vaccinations. I doubt we are in for much of a problem.

Unless of course we politicise the whole event like dictator dkhead did down in Melbourne. Along with rags like the age, guardian and newscorp.

This whole thing is more a culmination of being locked down for the last 2 years. And governments going beyond what should have been acceptable.
 
moXJO said:
Vax rates in nsw are running above 90%.
Should hit 95% or above. I would say a good number of those protesters are probably vaccinated.

So Australia's most right leaning state has over 90% vaccinations. I doubt we are in for much of a problem.

Unless of course we politicise the whole event like dictator dkhead did down in Melbourne. Along with rags like the age, guardian and newscorp.

This whole thing is more a culmination of being locked down for the last 2 years. And governments going beyond what should have been acceptable.
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NSW right leaning?
more like centre left!
the LNP, Labor are not right or even conservative any more
 
Investoradam said:
NSW right leaning?
more like centre left!
the LNP, Labor are not right or even conservative any more
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Got to agree. The Overton Window is so far left that even Pol Pot would be considered a right wing nut job these days </hyperbole...but almost not really>
 
wayneL said:
Got to agree. The Overton Window is so far left that even Pol Pot would be considered a right wing nut job these days </hyperbole...but almost not really>
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The Overton Window is a variable policy space in all directions, so to say it leans left means you do not understand what it is.
 
wayneL said:
Got to agree. The Overton Window is so far left that even Pol Pot would be considered a right wing nut job these days </hyperbole...but almost not really>
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The left are about having a social conscience, Pol Pot didn't quite meet that criteria.

Certainly there have been some progress in some social areas but workers rights and employment conditions have been undermined terribly.

The real threats are security laws and secret government brought in by conservative governments.
 
Morrisons comments about threats verses below night and day.


"Opposition Leader Mia Davies said the threats made against the Premier were abhorrent."
 
IFocus said:
The left are about having a social conscience, Pol Pot didn't quite meet that criteria.

Certainly there have been some progress in some social areas but workers rights and employment conditions have been undermined terribly.

The real threats are security laws and secret government brought in by conservative governments.
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I did indicate it was hyperbole, but even so, Pol Pot was a Marxist.

But lets examine this. How about Lenin, Mao, Stalin, the litany of eastern European communist despots, Castro... and I could go on.

A social conscience gives people opportunity to rise economically. Socialism doesn't do that and relies on force.

But don't for a moment think I support the current crony "capitalism"/corporatism. It is in fact economic fascism. Just another form of totalitarianism and only slightly less bad dance with the letter seem to be intent on implementing.

In that way the purported conservative governments are not conservative in the slightest sense.

These @ssholes are not conservative at all and don't think for a millisecond that a labor government would change a damn thing.
 
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