Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

flatback · 15 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but has anybody taken the time to look at the (wellington pif site)click on Corporate governance then go to changes to constitution firstly 28th march,then to 2 june,these changes were put in place at the time to enable the name change of PIF firstly from MFS to OCT then from OCT to WC on the 28th under operative provisions, there is a clause ,which reads CONFIRMATION
2. The Trustee confirms that, save for the amendments made by this Deed Poll, the
provisions of the Constitution shall remain in full force and effect and that by such
amendments the Trustee is not resettling or redeclaring the Trust nor a ¡e such
amendments removing or changing the rights of Unit Holders to vote or receive distribution in respect of unit or option, it appears that the ammendments made on the 2 june do not include this clause , in my limited knowledge of these things it didn't ring true am i being paranoid???
cheers Flatback

k.smith · 15 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

flatback said:
I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but has anybody taken the time to look at the (wellington pif site)click on Corporate governance then go to changes to constitution firstly 28th march,then to 2 june,these changes were put in place at the time to enable the name change of PIF firstly from MFS to OCT then from OCT to WC on the 28th under operative provisions, there is a clause ,which reads CONFIRMATION
2. The Trustee confirms that, save for the amendments made by this Deed Poll, the
provisions of the Constitution shall remain in full force and effect and that by such
amendments the Trustee is not resettling or redeclaring the Trust nor a ¡e such
amendments removing or changing the rights of Unit Holders to vote or receive distribution in respect of unit or option, it appears that the ammendments made on the 2 june do not include this clause , in my limited knowledge of these things it didn't ring true am i being paranoid???
cheers Flatback

Flatback, we are entitled to be as paranoid as we see fit...this is not a game, it is common sense to scrutinise everything from all angles....I hope we get some legal input about this one.

Mary Lynch · 15 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Just wondering if there is anyone out there who has $$$ with City Pacific. There is an Aussie Forum site open for you guys too. They have just suspended their distributions for 2 months....so the belt is REALLY tightening for some of us now.

Burnt · 15 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi all,
Hey Duped, answer to your post 1680, I've jumped the gun there. Your're right, obviously, the 4 x net profit & net tangible assets relates to the RE company. But still the net profit would be management fee (costs are reimbursed) less wages & directors fees, which I imagine would eat up just about all of the management fees - so bottom line close to zero. NTA pretty close to zero too !! what do you think.?
I also think others are on the mark when they suggest that WC want to retain as much investor capital as possible in the fund for as long as they can - more fees.

Burnt · 15 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

On another note, people have questioned the option of obtaining help from the governments proposed Financial Claims Scheme (FCS). Legislation to implement this scheme has not been passed as yet, but unfortunately it will not be of any help to us. Wayne Swan has a press release dated 2/6/08 outlining the scheme (www.treasurer.gov.au go to Wayne Swan go to Media Releases 2-6-08 No. 061). In the background information section it states :-
"Investment products such as managed funds will not be covered by the FCS because with many of these products there is an incentive for consumers to pursue higher returns through risk-taking. Protecting investors against loss while rewarding them for risk-taking could lead to large & adverse distortions in the market."
Fair enough, BUT in assessing any risk, shouldn't the investor be fully informed??

DoraNBoots · 16 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Does anyone know about the Express Unit Holder class which is mentioned in the Constitution? The only info I can find in the Constitution is attached and I can't see any mention of it in the PDS. I am wondering if it's not in the PDS if it was possible for people to have this type of investment in the PIF?

Rance · 16 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DoraNBoots said:
Does anyone know about the Express Unit Holder class which is mentioned in the Constitution? The only info I can find in the Constitution is attached and I can't see any mention of it in the PDS. I am wondering if it's not in the PDS if it was possible for people to have this type of investment in the PIF?

'Morning DoraNBoots,

I don't have a copy of the Constitution but in a PDS I have under the heading "Classes of Units", it mentions that different classes of units, with special rights or restrictions, can be issued to Wholesale Clients. An "Express Unit" would probably come under this category where Wholesale Clients can negotiate special rates and conditions for their investment.

Rance

BootsnAll · 16 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Rance said:
'Morning DoraNBoots,

I don't have a copy of the Constitution but in a PDS I have under the heading "Classes of Units", it mentions that different classes of units, with special rights or restrictions, can be issued to Wholesale Clients. An "Express Unit" would probably come under this category where Wholesale Clients can negotiate special rates and conditions for their investment.

Rance

Some time ago I spoke to John ? at Octaviar. He told me that to get large institutions (wholesale clients) to invest in PIF the institutions had to be able to withdraw their investment on 24 hr call otherwise they weren’t interested. This might answer your question.

Dexter · 16 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

One wonders how much of the content posted on this forum is factual. Jadel says I claimed to be a member of the Brisbane AG - not true - but I did attend the Brisbane Forum.

I am not pro NSX and have been working with WC to create an alternative solution.

However, my offer of 30c/unit is genuine.

Those who fear the NSX, liquidation or simply need cash in hand can get out now.

PS. I am a member of the Gold Coast AG but reside south of the border (as opposed to Great Dame's boarder).

Jadel · 16 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thought for Today: Cashtration (n.): The act of buying a house, (OCV) which renders the subject financially impotent for an indefinite period.(PIF)

Do not take the offer Great Doom i have got a feeling Dexter is well connected to somebody ?

great dame · 16 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Yes its me again Bit boring is an it QUESTAIN somebody please answer it Was JH /WC involed with MFS listed company as advisers when all that money was stolen out of PIF ??? Or maybe just after ???? Thank You Dame //

DoraNBoots · 16 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks for the answers to my previous question!

Wondering if anyone can explain why some amendments and waivers to the NSX listing rules are necessary for the PIF to be listed on the NSX? And why the PIF wouldn't be suitable for the ASX as mention on the DVD 1hr 34 mins:

"At this point in time I don’t think it would be possible for us to list on the ASX. We require some amendments and waivers to the listing rules both at the ASX and NSX to get listed and we explored in a preliminary sense what the ASX listing committees attitude would be to that and we did not get a favourable hearing where as we have received a favourable hearing from the NSX."

SPLITPIN · 16 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Query for all

In that Wellington Capital (formally known as Octaviar Investment Management Limited ACN 101 634 146 etc. etc.) is still the RE does that mean we should consider recovering any of our losses against the RE as per sections 601 of the Corporation Act.

The RE has not effectively changed from the MFS days and has not retired.

Therefore any previous bad management practices etc etc. are now the reponsibility of Wellington Capital.

This an interesting senario if correct.

Does that mean WC is our RE at the same time we are considering to recover damages from WC.

In other words to recover the monies we seek from OCV ($120M+) WC has to sue WC.

Does this explain the carry on regarding the OCV and the major creditors etc.

Regards

Splitpin

Rance · 16 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

SPLITPIN said:
Query for all

In that Wellington Capital (formally known as Octaviar Investment Management Limited ACN 101 634 146 etc. etc.) is still the RE does that mean we should consider recovering any of our losses against the RE as per sections 601 of the Corporation Act.

The RE has not effectively changed from the MFS days and has not retired.

Therefore any previous bad management practices etc etc. are now the reponsibility of Wellington Capital.

This an interesting senario if correct.

Does that mean WC is our RE at the same time we are considering to recover damages from WC.

In other words to recover the monies we seek from OCV ($120M+) WC has to sue WC.

Does this explain the carry on regarding the OCV and the major creditors etc.

Regards Splitpin

Splitpin, Your interesting scenario is INCORRECT. WC was never known as Octaviar Investment Management Limited. WC exercised a call option on May 9 and purchased all the shares in Octaviar Investment Management Limited (the previous Responsible Entity of the Premium Income Fund). It is NOT suing itself! Perhaps you could use your writing talent on a movie script for a TV drama series. You could confuse the audience for weeks.

Next question!

Rance

DoraNBoots · 16 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I asked a WC employee before the July Forum if they, having taken on OCV IM (and renaming etc) are liable if OCV IM mismanaged the fund. I thought that because the RE hadn’t actually changed they could be liable. (I now think that even if the RE changes the new one still take on this liability) The answer was JH is smart, a lawyer and I’m sure she’s got that covered.

I asked JH the same question at the July Forum. I remember when I asked if suing the former RE meant suing yourself due to you taking on the existing RE - this got a laugh but didn’t really get answered. JH explained how the former directors only had $20mill as a group to go after.

This question has also been raised on the forum in a number of different ways and I don’t think it’s been answered except maybe to say it’s not worth the time and effort to chase $20mill. Oh and that perhaps PI only covers employees if they were not committing a crime.

Regarding PI, I was speaking to a broker last week and he was explaining that PI for an association covers all the management members. Even if the management members are replaced the insurance company didn’t need to be notified. I should have asked if this is the same for entities such as an RE. Anyone know? I think sect 601FS of the Corp Act is saying if the former directors of the current RE were negligent then the current directors are liable. I even think it might be going as far to say if the RE changes completely that the new RE takes on these issues. What do you think?

In response to splitpin I understood that JH is going after OCV Ltd and not OCV IM (or now known as WC IM). It surprised me when I heard JH was going after the parent company and not the responsible entity, but your post could explain why. I think JH has said she is going after the entity that has the money (OCV Ltd) rather than the RE. I started to think that was good as OCV IM doesn't have any money but now that I think about it perhaps they (WC IM) do.

SPLITPIN · 16 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Rance said:
Splitpin, Your interesting scenario is INCORRECT. WC was never known as Octaviar Investment Management Limited. WC exercised a call option on May 9 and purchased all the shares in Octaviar Investment Management Limited (the previous Responsible Entity of the Premium Income Fund). It is NOT suing itself! Perhaps you could use your writing talent on a movie script for a TV drama series. You could confuse the audience for weeks.

Next question!

Rance

Rance

I am not a lawyer, are you??

If you are not a lawyer, your comments must be only your views and may be incorrect.

If you are a lawyer it must be a legal opinion.

So cut out the personal stuff, stick to the RE querie please.

Regards

Splitpin

Jadel · 16 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

You are absolutely correct Dora

I have all ready contacted Maurice Blackburn & Cash and IMF and the case is being evaluated at this moment in time .

Rance perhaps you would like to join in the action. ?

gazzan57 · 16 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Jadel said:
You are absolutely correct Dora

I have all ready contacted Maurice Blackburn & Cash and IMF and the case is being evaluated at this moment in time .

Rance perhaps you would like to join in the action. ?

Hi Jadel ...do you mean you are suing them? and if so how much would it cost me to join you in doing this?...I need my money back and would sooo like to put these @#STAR$# in jail...
Regards Gazzan

harry7 · 16 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

great dame said:
Harry 7 what dose the 7 stand for Your Age ????? Or how far you can count too???????? HARRY i will say & contnue to say the TRUTH I will put somr balance in the Forums Nobody is twisting your arm to read my stuff AS for my spelling i realy dont give a stuff what you think I only wish all the 10300 unit holders could read what i say Maybe i could brain wash them hey Harry ?????? Now Mr 2 post Harry lets see what constructive stuff you have to say Cheers Great Dame

As Javier once said, predicable response yet again

For the record I am 58 and hope never to be as old, negative, bitter an twisted as you.

As for the 3 posts believe that if you wish.

As for reading your posts I like others I know usually skip over them as we already know what you will have written "bloody useless NSX, trust me I know"

As for a constructive post - do your maths, vote for JH and listen to what people like Seamisty, Javier, rickH, rocky1 and co. are saying and the useful information they have listed (an no great dame you don't have to put me on the WC payroll).

Jadel · 16 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Gazzan

Contact me through the private facility provided on the Forum

Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

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