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Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

Hopefully Justice Dowsett will hand down his decision today.

25-Jul-2011

10:15

Judgment

Justice Dowsett

Court No. 1, Level 7
 

So ASICK, in your view the Magistrate who let the driver off on a drink-drive charge (4x the legal limit, a recent case) is not to be blamed because he views the driver as a "good person" ???
The bleeding "do-gooders" tweeked another girdle in the human engineering structure of an "up-yours" Aussie.
Would you agree that such impunity leaves community in further danger.
Tear shed,
 

First I would say that it makes NO SENSE to criticize the judiciary BEFORE a decision is to be handed down - what sense would it make to offend the judge? In fact, I couldn't think of anything more counter-productive.

Second, you cannot compare a decision from a Magistrates Court with one from the Federal Court. Magistrates have broads discretionary powers in many matters which come before them.

Third, you have to accept the claim was in the system and your side knew it was there. To my mind, it was like sailing a ship over a mine hoping that it was dud.

I remain with the view that it was a mistake in judgement to continue on with the meeting while the court case was pending, a mistake which members should accept and move on - otherwise it would be to wrongly externalize blame, like the guy who kicks a rock and says "bl**dy rock".

Your ship sailed, and the mine wasn't a dud.
 
My thoughts exactly asick, to many of these people,on to many occassions have blamed everybody else, as i have said in a previous thread our barristers should have been aware of these issues before we went ahead.
Flatback
 
Isnt it amazing that there is no news updates from Wellignton on the NSX website about what they are doing!

I mean before the judgement was announced they were making announcements left right and centre trying to make it look like they were doing something for our fund.

Now we are entering the waiting period before any decisions can be made and look what happens. As per usual no announcements from Wellington and as per usual nothing is getting done with our fund apart from being drained by Hutson of funds for the past 3 years.
 

Asick, You seem to be better informed about how the justice system hasn't failed the investors of the premium income fund.
From the day MFS imploded Till this day regardless of the countless complaints sent to asic, They have failed to act or inform investors on every single complaint made by unitholders.
ALWAYS erring and protecting the group who is holding our fund in trust....why?

From what I understand you seem to be an advisor who has no doubt got an interest in what we write here because of your friend who is a unitholder. Yet you seem to find fault whenever we/I simply ask for justice to be done when its sought and for for questions to be answered when they are asked.

I may have to refer to your insight how I could possibly get some of my questions answered because I sure as hell cant get them answered by anyone at wc or asic or anyone else in the know.

The prime source of information for me is whats posted here on the ASF by those dedicated and committed to doing the right thing by everyone regardless if they are an action group member. There is no-one else protecting our interests, is there?

In those few weeks that cascap were vying for the vote I got more answers to questions than three years of wellingtons who are suppossed to be looking after our fund and whos job it is to inform investors.
I don't trust wellington capital anymore ...do you?

Are you protecting wellington capital? Do you think Wellington are doing a good job managing whats left of our fund and are they acting in the best interest of unitholders?
 
My thoughts exactly asick, to many of these people,on to many occassions have blamed everybody else, as i have said in a previous thread our barristers should have been aware of these issues before we went ahead.
Flatback

Agh!
The harpers are outing themselves.
The Doubtsett brigade convenening for the purpose of "balance" straight from
political correctness manual !?!?!?!?!?!?!
Whether a Magistrate or a Judge; understandings of Ethics must pass the SAME STANDARD.
To which us, mere plebeians that we are, the Fate does not bind.
Lucky you.
Cheers,
 

Good on You Simgrund, I absolut agree!!!!!!
 

What's your point? Who's failed your 'ethics test'?
 
What's your point? Who's failed your 'ethics test'?

Why do You ask? It is so obvious!!

How can Yoy blame again CasCap for proceeding with the meeting.
They had to hold it. It had been called and JH would have hold the meeting
at the Grace with those rent ins and would have claimed victory.

Could it be the case that You are symphatetic to JH and disappointed that she
didn't have success?
 

I'm sorry to see that you seem to have developed an irrational belief that everyone who doesn't agree with you is somehow aligned with the manager of your fund.

"How can you blame ... CasCap for proceeding with the meeting."? Well, easy - very easy - they continued on with the meeting while a trial on the Notice was pending.

There was a claim by Wellington Capital that the Notice of Meeting was defective - what is the point of having the meeting and then risk having a judge rule the meeting invalid because the Notice was defective?

It wasn't just CasCap's costs that were at risk, but also the travel and other expenses of members of your fund - members deserve certainty. Many of your members are now out of pocket, money some might have found difficult to expend but did so because of the call by members to other members to attend the meeting. Even the stop/start of the change of date may have cost members extra.

The only way certainty could be ensured was to resolve the legal issues which your side had notice of. Actually (as I've previously posted), I was surprised that the judge didn't press the parties to conclude the legal proceeding before members would meet.

Cascap's costs are tax deductible but I'll bet for those investors on a low income stream there's no such benefit for them.

Maybe the cost of attending the meeting was nothing to you, but to others, even tax deductible, was still expensive.

You ask why I ask the obvious? Well, beause I don't get the gist of your argument - is it that the court lacks ethics? if so, which court/s? and what are the ethics so lacking?

You seem to be avoiding the issues and shooting the messenger.
 
Meanwhile over on the NSX. Buying support appears to have started drying up from around the time of Justice Dowsett's decision. Will we see the price drop to 5.6c?
 

Asick, I am loathe to buy into this issue but as you have obviously read the judgment could you please enlighten us all with your version of what His Honour has determined. I do not and never will shoot the messenger. I was at the meeting and heard what was said. Did you attend the meeting in question? Also you continue to give us the benefit of your thoughts which is appreciated. Do you have any particular message for legitimate unit holders in relation to the so called "renta crowd." Is this course of conduct permissible and was it a benefit to all unit holders or just for the benefit of WC?
 
What's your point? Who's failed your 'ethics test'?

Aagh again!
An outsider spoiling for a fight.
Other threads through which you prowl don't excite nor fulfill your primordial
needs to obstruct for the sake of obstructing, egh?
Well Ken, or Shmen, or Wren or any other whistle you respond to:
I don't, as a principle, indulge in impenetrable imbecility.
You will have to earn your right to snare anyone into word-i-cuffs with you.
Here's your right of passage.

Firstly, analyse and explain the following passages to the puzzled folk of this thread:

[I don't have too much experience with meetings, but I would say that it's better to let the manager run the meeting at the fund's expense. It seems to me, that if you can't win the proxies, then you can't win anyway. Of course, it's a different proposition if a show of hands is required to win the day.]

you need to show why the writer thinks that a Manager targeted for replacement should be the Chair

[In my view, all effort should be directed to communication with members, both in writing/email and phone (particularly in writing/email). If the proxies aren't favourable, then the day is lost.]

you need to show why the writer thinks it is necessary to state such bleatingly obvious truth to an intelligent audience

[If it is the case that members feel uncomfortable with the fund's registry (even any level of distrust is a sad state of affairs), then the action group could simply ask members to direct their proxy to the fund's registry and cc to Castlereagh Capital?]

you need to show writer's star gazing qualifications

[From an outsider's perspective, I think there's been too much effort on chairing the meeting in circumstances where the meeting itself probably wouldn't have shifted sentiment one iota (IMO).]

you need to explain why the writer, as an Outsider, meddles in affairs he has not one iota of expertise in.

And a closing general question: Why writer predicates many of his/her pronouncements with "if".
After all: "IF" man's nipples could lactate, how different the world would be.

Please feel free to take all the time you need to provide requested analysis


With hearty cheers,
 
ASICK. WC's NSX announcement of 22 June at a second before 10:47am:

http://nsxa.com.au/ftp/news/021724126.PDF

"Meeting scheduled for 23 June 2011
Wellington Capital has agreed not to proceed with its interlocutory proceedings in the Federal Court. The Court ordered that the interlocutory proceeding be dismissed.
The consequence is that tomorrow’s meeting of Unitholders, will proceed as planned as follows:
23 June 2011 at 11.00am
Pinaroo Room,
77 York Street, Sydney

Jenny Hutson, Chairperson of Wellington Capital as responsible entity of the Premium Income Fund said:
‘it is my view that the ultimate decision making body is the members in general meeting. I look forward to Unitholders having the opportunity to consider the resolutions put forward in the notice of 16 May 2011.’ "

Would you agree that dropping the interlocutory proceedings and then making such a statement could lead the market to believe that WC's claims against the meeting would be completely dropped? If so, then isn't it illegal to mislead the market?

Why drop the interlocutory proceedings to stop the meeting going ahead if you have no intention of dropping claims the meeting was invalidly called? That's the question the market would have asked?
 
Asick,

I'm curious on watching you answer Charles36 question

Just to get the record straight - exactly what affiliation do you have with this fund and with wellington?

You're obviously well versed in the nature of predictive law, perhaps you can answer some of my earlier queries now that you seem to have gathered an audience. I'd be happy to wait my turn.
 

All I know is that the judge has already found that the Notice was defective and ipso facto, the meeting was invalid. What happened at the meeting has nothing to do with the Notice for the meeting.

The 'rent-a-crowd' allegations are a separate matter and members should not combine the two - one will not offset the other (IMO).

I can't speak to the ligitimacy of the issuance of units on that day - but if the court doesn't find J.H.'s 'fingerprints' on the deal then it's unlikely she's face any difficulty.

I'm not sure that the registry company is going to fare so well, but that will be subject to the provisions of the Corporations Act ("the act"). You'll probably all be aware that the act doesn't cover all the angles, and that legislators normally move to close the loopholes after the holes have been very well 'exercised' (so to speak).

I somehow get the view that some/many members on this forum feel that any wrongdoing (if so found) by W.C. or another assoicated entity will somehow bring the meeting back to life, but as far as I'm concerned, that will not be the case.

I posted before that both sides might have 'wins' and 'wounds' - that is, on the one hand, your side will win some points over the 'rent-a-crowd' issues, while wounded by the meeting being found invalid, while on the other hand, W.C. might win over the meeting, but be wounded on the other issues.

Since the judge has already handed down a finding on the Notice being defective, it is unlikely he would overturn his own decision - still, the issue is open to appeal: every finding is open to appeal - the matter could go on for quite some time.
 

First - I'll piont out that I don't practice law - so any view I express is simply my own opinion.

An interlocutory proceeding is a pre-trial proceeding and whether it is continued or discontinued has no bearing on whether a trial is proceeded with, unless of course it's a successful motion to strike out the claim.

As to the notice on the NSX - I think the notice is correct. It is not W.C. calling the meeting and CasCap sought to proceed in the face of the continuing claim by W.C. at its' own risk.

For me, I wouldn't have proceeded with the meeting before resolving the legal claims before the court - the risks would be too high, and furthermore, there would no certainty for unitholders.

Look, it's a judgement call, and CasCap made a judgement probably based on the view that they had a good answer to W.C. claims, but I think CasCap should have looked at the potential affects on investors and the losses they stood to suffer if the Notice turned out to be defective.

Again, these are only my personal opinions, which may, or may not, have merit.
 

wow ...SIMGRUND..WELL DONE ...NOW LETS HERE FROM HIM...HER...IT..OR WC ..JH
 

Furthermore, doesn't this in effect give WC two bites at it's opponent. Which is something that, I recall reading, our legal system is dead against. If so, then this is also something the market would have presumed.

The skill that these lawyers, who have run PIF from the beginning, navigate our legal system can make it appear far less well serving than many of us are lead to believe. Should we allow ourselves to believe? From the NewLawyer http://www.thenewlawyer.com.au/arti...essible-Rolls-Royce-Chief-Justice/496001.aspx

"In a speech given at the Australian Lawyers Alliance Western Australian State Conference, Chief Justice Wayne Martin described the Australian justice system as a Rolls Royce that the average Australian could only admire rather than utilise.
...
"Justice Kenneth Hayne has spoken of what he describes as 'the vanishing trial' in the civil context. That description is entirely justified by the statistics maintained by the Supreme Court of Western Australia. Those statistics show that less than 3 per cent of the cases commenced in our court are resolved by a trial, which of course means that more than 97 per cent are resolved by some other means; most often by agreement between the parties,” he said."

Less than 3%. Doesn't that mean any legislation that has unintended consequences will remain on our statute books, untested, for longer? Just some musings.
 
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