Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

Cookie1 · 12 July 2011

Cookie1 said:
Another NSX announcement: http://www.nsxa.com.au/ftp/news/021724210.PDF

NSX Release: 12 July 2011

Litigation Update

The hearing of the Federal Court Proceedings 140 of 2011 continued today before Justice Dowsett. His Honour has asked for final submissions in writing by 4.00pm today.

His Honour has indicated that judgement in relation to the proceedings and the notice of meeting will be delivered tomorrow, 13 July 2011.

Further updates will be provided as the matter progresses. Premium Income Fund

Where does this leave those of us who must travel tomorrow to Sydney if the meeting is on for the 14th of July (Thursday)? Do we drive/fly to Sydney only to find the meeting may have been postponed? It can't be fair to investors who wish to attend the meeting to be left up in the air like this! A lot of investors cannot afford the extra cost with this on again, off again meeting.

What time tomorrow will we find out something? We don't drive on the highway after dark these days and we wouldn't be able to get a flight, train or bus at such late notice.

Duped · 12 July 2011

Cookie1 said:
Where does this leave those of us who must travel tomorrow to Sydney if the meeting is on for the 14th of July (Thursday)? Do we drive/fly to Sydney only to find the meeting may have been postponed? It can't be fair to investors who wish to attend the meeting to be left up in the air like this! A lot of investors cannot afford the extra cost with this on again, off again meeting.

What time tomorrow will we find out something? We don't drive on the highway after dark these days and we wouldn't be able to get a flight, train or bus at such late notice.

Up A SIC creek without a paddle

How can ASIC squat on legislation that can allow this to happen?

Too many dangers in these Corporations Act waters. I'm going to swim in the safe zone of Bank Term deposits. And then when the Banks do to Australia what is happening to Greece, I'm going to sit back and watch the ASIC staff squeal. There are consequeces to everything. Don't oversell your capabilities ASIC. That's for the pollies. Not for a COMISSION.

flatback · 12 July 2011

Duped said:
Up A SIC creek without a paddle

How can ASIC squat on legislation that can allow this to happen?

Too many dangers in these Corporations Act waters. I'm going to swim in the safe zone of Bank Term deposits. And then when the Banks do to Australia what is happening to Greece, I'm going to sit back and watch the ASIC staff squeal. There are consequeces to everything.

Surely our council of solicitors is just as cunning as JH or are we going to be railroaded into submission by this pompus arrogant person who has no, (known to us anyway ETHICS?) our problem is that, her council has put forward a better arguement than ours and the courts are being hoodwinked by this cunning person, there must come a time in all of this ,that common law fairness comes into play ,there must come a time when the courts see this charade of gobbly goop for what it is. keep up the good work everybody.
Flatback

17340 · 12 July 2011

Cookie1 said:
Where does this leave those of us who must travel tomorrow to Sydney if the meeting is on for the 14th of July (Thursday)? Do we drive/fly to Sydney only to find the meeting may have been postponed? It can't be fair to investors who wish to attend the meeting to be left up in the air like this! A lot of investors cannot afford the extra cost with this on again, off again meeting.

What time tomorrow will we find out something? We don't drive on the highway after d
ark these days and we wouldn't be able to get a flight, train or bus

we are in the same boat,we have to leave wednesday early in the morning,we would like to attend the meeting but can not afford to go a second time when the meeting is postponed.

selciper · 12 July 2011

It seems at present that the "stacking of meeting" episode has been relegated to the farthest back-burner.

It's true, as Cookie1 points out, that when you change address you inform your post office who redirect your mail. If you move interstate, you're given three months to change your license. And as for the reliability of Armstrong Registry...
.

Duped · 12 July 2011

From today's Courier Mail article:

"Justice John Dowsett reiterated his view that the process had already been hopelessly compromised and "it would be better if we just start afresh"."

But PIFAG wouldn't be starting "afresh" if starting again buys time for WC to issue more units (by raising capital) before the next "snap shot" of the register. (Whenever that is supposed to occur) PIFAG would be starting from a different position wouldn't it?

Jadel · 12 July 2011

Duped said:
From today's Courier Mail article:

"Justice John Dowsett reiterated his view that the process had already been hopelessly compromised and "it would be better if we just start afresh"."

But PIFAG wouldn't be starting "afresh" if starting again buys time for WC to issue more units (by raising capital) before the next "snap shot" of the register. (Whenever that is supposed to occur) PIFAG would be starting from a different position wouldn't it?

Exactly Duped , This is what really has me worried

Duped · 12 July 2011

Jadel said:
Exactly Duped , This is what really has me worried

I wonder if the honourable Justice has worked it out?

ASIC has been busy:
http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/asic.nsf/byHeadline/11-140MR%20ASIC%20proposals%20to%20improve%20unlisted%20property%20schemes%20disclosure?opendocument

Perhaps ASIC could improve it's efficiency by just simple noting that such schemes were resurrected from where they were sensible abondoned: the 18th and early 19th century. And are just as dangerous now as they were back then. I.e. they don't enjoy the scrutiny of a market based price discovery mechanism - instant liquidity on an exchange. If you really insist on investing in them then do so at your own peril. You're on your own.

Tulip farms anyone? Anyone want to pay a commission to become a factor in an Australian North South Trading Company?

If you don't know where you've come from then something that feels like 'innovation' or 'moving forward' actually has you heading back to where you fled.

But then again, if you sell shoes, you wouldn't care where they're heading. Just keep em walking. Keep the money flowing. Push, pull, guide, nudge and shove. Do what ever you can to keep the velocity of money up?

seamisty · 12 July 2011

I have just heard that the last band of followers sent to Sydney as proxies from the Forest Resort have been told to stand by the phone for instructions for another trip subject to the meeting proceeding ?

I am not sure how many people can be mislead a second time after witnessing first hand (and participating in) the deceptive tactics engaged by persons associated with Wellington Capital but who would know!

Seamisty

Duped · 12 July 2011

seamisty said:
I have just heard that the last band of followers sent to Sydney as proxies from the Forest Resort have been told to stand by the phone for instructions for another trip subject to the meeting proceeding ?

I am not sure how many people can be mislead a second time after witnessing first hand (and participating in) the deceptive tactics engaged by persons associated with Wellington Capital but who would know!

Seamisty

A camera crew to meet them at the airport?

If any news service or journalist wants to witness first hand how clever lawyers can smash the alleged investor protections of the Corporations Act. They can report as its happening for a change. Rather than after the "alleged incident". Gotta be more interesting than being a court reporter? I'm sure many of us here will gift em the shares so they can be there.

Duped · 12 July 2011

Duped said:
I wonder if the honourable Justice has worked it out?

...

Oops that's a bit unfair. How is the honourable Justice supposed to know what WC is planning.

What I meant to say was: I wonder if the honourable Justice has worked it out that WC is not going to let him off the hook in any way.

PIF seems to be leaving the law harried, lamenting, in uproar or frustrated wherever it goes.

DepressedDad · 12 July 2011

So the judge has mentioned procedural problems & how we could have done better. (Without any cooperation, in fact obstruction , it's a miracle we got her to the point where she HAD to desperately hire actors)

But what is he saying about the downright dishonest deception of hiring actors to change the outcome of a supposedly democratic vote?? I agree that common sense is lacking here if there's legal nitpicking about details (which is fair enough) but no sounding judgement re DISHONESTY & DELIBERATION DECEPTION?? Is that coming tomorrow??

Harald · 12 July 2011

Does anybody know at which time tomorrow this Justice is willing to give us a clue at
what will happen on Thursday?

Cookie1 · 12 July 2011

Harald said:
Does anybody know at which time tomorrow this Justice is willing to give us a clue at
what will happen on Thursday?

Harold, I've been wondering the same thing. In the end we've decided to go ahead and drive from Port Macquarie to Sydney tomorrow late morning; otherwise, we wouldn't be able to make the meeting. It could just turn out to be a visit with the family and a birthday celebration, but at least we'll be there if the EGM goes ahead.

Cookie1

Jadel · 12 July 2011

DepressedDad said:
So the judge has mentioned procedural problems & how we could have done better. (Without any cooperation, in fact obstruction , it's a miracle we got her to the point where she HAD to desperately hire actors)

But what is he saying about the downright dishonest deception of hiring actors to change the outcome of a supposedly democratic vote?? I agree that common sense is lacking here if there's legal nitpicking about details (which is fair enough) but no sounding judgement re DISHONESTY & DELIBERATION DECEPTION?? Is that coming tomorrow??

Depressed Dad

My overall impression from the court room was that sadly the , rent a crowd matter, will be viewed as a minor issue only.

Jenny H gave an account, that though implausible , would in fact be very difficult to disprove .

Most of the time was taken up by referring to different clauses in the legislation ,which had to be looked at, in a 20 cm thick edition of the Corporations Act ,and then deliberated on at length as to what interpretation applied .

Regrettably, this means that presiding Judges in these type of cases ,only have a limited window of time to process a huge amount of conflicting evidence .

The issue will probably be resolved on legal technicalities regarding the Corporations Act

JohnH · 13 July 2011

Good Morning Everybody. Decision Day!!! Does anybody know if we have somebody who will be reporting back from the Court?

DoraNBoots · 13 July 2011

JohnH said:
Good Morning Everybody. Decision Day!!! Does anybody know if we have somebody who will be reporting back from the Court?

Hi JohnH,
A time is not yet set for the judgment. I just spoke to the court and was told: The judgement is being written at the moment and the parties will be notified when a time has been set, the web site will also be updated.
https://www.comcourts.gov.au/file/Federal/P/QUD140/2011/actions

I am not sure if any investors will attend.

JohnH · 13 July 2011

DoraNBoots said:
Hi JohnH,
A time is not yet set for the judgment. I just spoke to the court and was told: The judgement is being written at the moment and the parties will be notified when a time has been set, the web site will also be updated.
https://www.comcourts.gov.au/file/Federal/P/QUD140/2011/actions

I am not sure if any investors will attend.

Thanks Dora.

charles36 · 13 July 2011

JohnH said:
Thanks Dora.

I believe a decision will be handed down at 2.15p.m. Like everything connected to our fund, NO GUARANTEES the time is correct.

Duped · 13 July 2011

Jadel wrote: "Jenny H gave an account, that though implausible , would in fact be very difficult to disprove ."

Playing to our legal system's weaknesses? Which proponents of our common law system (as opposed to Civil Law) say is a good thing. Right? But doesn't that create an extra conductive seat for our Honourable Justices (to which we allocate great power) to sit in. I wonder how Justice Dowsett has been feeling today about being in the hot seat?

Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

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