Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

charles36 said:

I have been trying for some months now to get a specific answer from WC regarding the election of the IAC. At the outset let me say the performance of the IAC has been somewhat less than spectacular, both updates unsigned and nothing of any consequence posted. I endeavoured to ascertain how the votes were compiled and counted. One email I received informed me that the vote was handled in the same manner as for the election of the RE and change of Constituion etc. To my mind , if that was the case we, that is, unit holders should have been informed by way of a press release prior to the result being officially announced and a memorandum announcing the exact voting results. You will recall the press release attributed to M/S J Hutson some days prior to the meeting of the 18 October, 2008 that the RE received 90% of the votes etc. I questioned this information and was informed that all information relating to the vote for the IAC has been released to unit holders. I again questioned this statement and was "fobbed off" and virtually told to make a complaint elsewhere. I really never felt the IAC were really going to be helpful as there is a shroud of secrecy that prevails, I guess for various reasons but to let interested unit holders who took the time to nominate and vote, at the funds expense of course, should have at least been afforded the courtesy of knowing the actual result of the polling. Where is the secrecy in that, I did not nominate but if I had I would not mind anybody knowing how I polled. The candidates that I have spoken to have certainly not asked for secrecy or privacy in this regard. Perhaps the IAC could turn their mind to ascertaining the results for the unit holders. Now that would be a good exercise for them. I persisted with my inquiries because I believe there is a serious principle of transparency not being applied as promised in the 'EXPENSIVE CARAVAN TOUR' during May, 2008 by M/S Hutson and her team. Any support for this unsatisfactory state of affairs would be much appreciated. CHARLES 36 ORGANISER PIFAG

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Totally with you on this one Charles. Can't think of any other time (other than a dictatorship) when an election has been held and the voters (let alone the candidates) have not had access to the results.

..................... on second thoughts, maybe we are all victims of a dictatorship!!!

charles36 said:

I have been trying for some months now to get a specific answer from WC regarding the election of the IAC. At the outset let me say the performance of the IAC has been somewhat less than spectacular, both updates unsigned and nothing of any consequence posted. I endeavoured to ascertain how the votes were compiled and counted. One email I received informed me that the vote was handled in the same manner as for the election of the RE and change of Constituion etc. To my mind , if that was the case we, that is, unit holders should have been informed by way of a press release prior to the result being officially announced and a memorandum announcing the exact voting results. You will recall the press release attributed to M/S J Hutson some days prior to the meeting of the 18 October, 2008 that the RE received 90% of the votes etc. I questioned this information and was informed that all information relating to the vote for the IAC has been released to unit holders. I again questioned this statement and was "fobbed off" and virtually told to make a complaint elsewhere. I really never felt the IAC were really going to be helpful as there is a shroud of secrecy that prevails, I guess for various reasons but to let interested unit holders who took the time to nominate and vote, at the funds expense of course, should have at least been afforded the courtesy of knowing the actual result of the polling. Where is the secrecy in that, I did not nominate but if I had I would not mind anybody knowing how I polled. The candidates that I have spoken to have certainly not asked for secrecy or privacy in this regard. Perhaps the IAC could turn their mind to ascertaining the results for the unit holders. Now that would be a good exercise for them. I persisted with my inquiries because I believe there is a serious principle of transparency not being applied as promised in the 'EXPENSIVE CARAVAN TOUR' during May, 2008 by M/S Hutson and her team. Any support for this unsatisfactory state of affairs would be much appreciated. CHARLES 36 ORGANISER PIFAG

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I have tried numerous times also charles36 and was also told to complain elsewhere which I have done.

The question I ask myself is "Was consideration EVER given to the actual IAC votes received by Wellington Capital or can I assume that WC handpicked and appointed the three candidates themselves?"

If this assupmption appears to be an accusation against WC regarding incorrect procedure in relation to the IAC vote what other possible conclusion can be made when:

1. Wellington Capital REFUSE to disclose vote results.

2. Wellington Capital REFUSE to provide minutes/details in relation to the vote.

3. Wellington Capital REFUSE to reveal if WC used the WPIF 11% voting power.

4. The IAC representatives themselves REFUSE to communicate with other PIF investors.

5. Not one single question/issue that has been raised with IAC reps has been answered to date.


I have asked WC many times WHY THE SECRECY if the whole process, paid for by OUR Fund was operated in a fair and correct manner continues to remain a closely guarded secret?

I also conclude that the whole pathetic IAC token gesture was only ever implemented as it WAS THE ONLY COMMITTMENT WELLINGTON CAPITAL was capable of honoring!!!

Seamisty

seamisty said:

I also conclude that the whole pathetic IAC token gesture was only ever implemented as it WAS THE ONLY COMMITTMENT WELLINGTON CAPITAL was capable of honoring!!!Seamisty

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But they haven't honoured it Seamisty!!! There has been absolutely no two way exchange as far as I know with any unit holders and the IAC

JohnH said:

But they haven't honoured it Seamisty!!! There has been absolutely no two way exchange as far as I know with any unit holders and the IAC

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Exactly JohnH, WC have proven they never intended direct contact between IAC and Reps, hence using WC as a go between/censor and demonstrate they cannot even conduct a simple vote proceedure with openess and transparency. And yes some are still actively pushing for other alternatives, I can only assume these efforts will expediate when more evidence is obtained through legal channels. If anyone thinks they can offer a better alternative or is prepared to cough up in excess of $100,000 to call a EGM, then find the ongoing financial committment to follow through, I am all ears/eyes. Don't forget that WC have to account for every $ spent of our money and I am sure that this issue will be addressed eventually.

Seamisty

Recent;y, a friend kindly agreed to view the 08 WC Roadshow DVD with me. Half an hour into the spectacle, he said that he would have voted “yes” at the time because the announced projections sounded solid enough and enticing. However, I didn’t hear the word “promise” used during the address, but the DVD may, in the future, explain to other parties the reason for the reported large “yes” vote having been so strong.

That the latest IAC ultra-flimsy “report” should be expected to appease or assist is treating all informed PIF investors like numbskulls.

As for the IAC voting results remaining locked up, we must wonder how this is allowed to happen. I suppose that the idea is so preposterous in a democracy that lawmakers haven’t given the possibility a thought. And PIF paid for this unlikely procedure! When I complained about this to a (less gushing) hotline rep, I was pretty well fobbed off with a couple of unhelpful sentences which offered nothing useful to an inquirer.

Charles36 - It’s a shame that FOI laws apparently don’t apply to private businesses. We can hope that as media coverage of our general plight increases, the unique IAC process will be raised and questioned. WC will then have it confirmed that the issue is very much alive - despite the passing of time.

The election of the IAC is shrouded in mystery and secrecy. Why? All candidates offered their services and had their alleged expertise published and forwarded to each unit holder. There is no secrecy there, if they were prepared to nominate when there definitely was no guarantee by the RE that voting results would be kept SECRET from unit holders then it necessarily follows that each candidate expected the results to be revealed. If a candidate received a poor response so what. My emails which went back and forth like yo yo's trying to understand the refusal by the RE to indicate voting results left me somewhat dismayed. The answer was "the RE never indicated the voting results would be published." Well as far as I am concerned the RE did not say they wouldn't. Are we to assume that democracy went out the window when we elected the RE who of course used the democratic principle to publish voting numbers when it suited the cause of the RE. Of course the Corporations Act (Cth) specifies how voting must be conducted. You will recall I have been told by the RE that voting for the IAC was the same as for the election of the RE. Confused, you bet I am. There is an old adage "You can fool some of the people some of the time but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time" I have great confidence in justice and I feel that justice will be served to the unit holders in due time.

The IAC (PIF), ICC (PFMF).

I think the creation of a committee, be it the iac or icc, puts that group aside from investors. I think the committees align themselves with the managers because the managers have more to offer, and then once information is gained, there is hope for more - I think self-interest takes over, because once information is gained, they feel they will be able to look after their own interests better - after all, they have no obligation to consider the interests of other investors.

The members of a committee will probably feel they are smarter than normal investors, and that is vindiated in their own minds by the fact they have been selected to be members of a committee.

http://www.simplyquality.org/Imran-QMS-Behavior.pdf

Would anyone be kind enough to give me a brief synopsis of what has happened with this organisation? I was only vaguely aware of it until someone I was talking to yesterday said he had lost $400,000.
Sorry to intrude on your discussion.

Julia said:

Would anyone be kind enough to give me a brief synopsis of what has happened with this organisation? I was only vaguely aware of it until someone I was talking to yesterday said he had lost $400,000.
Sorry to intrude on your discussion.

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Unfortunately Julia there is nothing brief regarding this saga and some investors have lost millions, a direct result of alleged missapropiation of PIF money by previous MFS/OCV directors/wmployees and what some PIF investors consider further avoidable losses under current management, Wellington Capital. There is a timeline of events, I will see if a link can be posted. Seamisty

Anyone else feel like an ant? (I like the last bit!!) Seamisty


THE ANT AND THE GRASSHOPPER

The ant works hard in the withering heat and the rain all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while he is cold and starving.

Channels 7, 9 and 10,the ABC and SBS show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.

Australia is stunned by the sharp contrast.

How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper and everybody cries when they sing, 'It's Not Easy Being Green .'

Acorn stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house where the news stations film the group singing, 'We shall overcome.' Cardinal George Pell then has the group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper's sake.

Prime Minister Rudd condemns the ant and blames John Howard, Robert Menzies, Capt James Cook, and the Pope for the grasshopper's plight.

Bob Brown exclaims in an interview on Today Tonight that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and calls for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.

Finally, Labor in conjunction with the Greens draft the Economic Equity & Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the beginning of the summer.

The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the Government and given to the grasshopper.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper and his free-loading friends finishing up the last bits of the ant’s food while the government house he is in, which, as you recall, just happens to be the ant's old house, crumbles around them because the grasshopper doesn't maintain it.

The ant has disappeared in the snow, never to be seen again.

The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident, and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the ramshackle, once prosperous and once peaceful, neighborhood.

Julia said:

Would anyone be kind enough to give me a brief synopsis of what has happened with this organisation? I was only vaguely aware of it until someone I was talking to yesterday said he had lost $400,000.
Sorry to intrude on your discussion.

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Good day Julia,
Yours is a welcome intrusion, I have no doubt.
We had some totally unwelcome interlopers on this thread. And occasionally this led to its suspension.
But I hope along with many PIFers that this exchange may lead to some positive additions to our collective experiences.
Hats off to stormers for establishing ASIC page.
It would be too long a story to relate on this page all of PIF debacles.
Suffice to say, that our hopes are tied up to a Class Action currently underway.
Good luck to all of us, best wishes,

Julia said:

Would anyone be kind enough to give me a brief synopsis of what has happened with this organisation? I was only vaguely aware of it until someone I was talking to yesterday said he had lost $400,000.
Sorry to intrude on your discussion.

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Basically it was a poor regulatory environment combined with ASIC's active promotion of the Financial Advisor industry culminating in a perfect storm. High commissions inducing Financial Advisors to redirect trusting clients' savings into the fund. These are the financial advisors who we have subsequently learned have NO fiduciary duty of care to put their client's interests in front of their own. What!!!! I.e. there was less than minimal check or balance in place to protect novice investors like me who put their faith in the ASIC run AFS Licence system. (Don't start me on Lonsec or the Ratings Agency industry in general.)

Promoted to me as a fund with first registered mortagages, insured by Lloyds and having a custodian in Perpetual. In reality, a substantial volume of the fund's asset were with related party entities and the insurance was little applied and highly conditional. Example, a related party bought the Gold Coast Sheraton and within a year sold the asset to the Raptis Group and booked a 'profit'. The day (?) after the deal between Raptis and the MFS owner, PIF made an UNSECURED loan ($20M?) against the property. Bit of a sweetener for Raptis wouldn't you say? End result to PIF = TOTAL WRITE DOWN!!!

Perpetual's role was really just to do whatever an irresponsible responsible entity told them to do. Perpetual: 'The RE didn't follow internal procedures? Not my problem. That's what YOU signed up for.' (Thanks Tanya Lacy. YOU ROCK! Good to have you back on TV.)

A classic hustle. Hustle husle hustle.

Seamisty has provided an excellent summary since late 2007.

But also have a very close look at the changes to the consitution in 2006. The $50m facility is still owed to PIF.

Also have a look at the chart provided in the Investor Update for June 2007. Why did the fund flatline from January 2007? Perhaps there was a cut to the commissions? And what about that spike in Jun07 that coincides with MFS Management LTD's very brief $60m 'investment' in PIF? What did that brief flirtation do to the liquidity of the fund. Do as I say not do as I do eh! Long term investments for the mugs, short term for me and my mates at Avenue.

Have a look at Crikey's article 'Avenue's conflicted connection to troubled MFS' regarding the Bond Street Custodians Ltd action against the fund mentioned in seamisty's list.http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/01/avenues-conflicted-connection-to-troubled-mfs/

Then of course there is the secured loan of $250M? from Fortress Capital to MFS. Taken out in May/June 2007. Have a look at what the MFS Ltd interim financial report for 31Dec07 has to say about that loan? Now have a look at what the Queensland Supreme Court has to say about that loan 'facility'. (Take a pick of the which decision you'd like to read. Want a list?) Bit different eh! So much for keeping the market informed. The High Court will also have a crack at hearing all about Octaviar and Fortress Capital soon. Poor old commercial lawyers have all gone and got themselves a bit worked up about the saga too. Even coined a new phrase" 'Octaviar Proof' your funding facility. http://www.thenewlawyer.com.au/article/law-firms-grapple-with-new-octaviar-decision/499562.aspx

Have a look at the WC roadshow DVD? Jenny Hutson turned up telling us something along the lines of there being five creditors and each are equally ranked. (Don't quote me) Come come, that's not true is it Jenny? 'Cos Fortress has security and PIF doesn't. Right? Am I wrong? Ironically, WC are (reportedly) at odds with fellow creditor PTQ whose actions (to prevent the whole sorry story being swept under the carpet) might actually succeed in downgrading Fortress to unsecured status (but not if the commercial law fraternity can stop it) and give some truth to Hutson's statement. I'll keep YA posted.

Oh and you'll notice from seamisty's list that Deloitte went and got itself all conflicted too and got sacked by McMurdo J. Conflicted, according to McMurdo, to the tune of $20m I recall?

To quote our prime minister K Dudd: it's a '**** storm'. With ASIC keeping its 'oversell and under deliver capabilities' sorry head down. Have a look at ASIC's website. End advice is still (at least the last time i checked): seek advice from a financial advisor. What!!!! That's what got me into this mess in the first place.

CTRL + ALT + DELETE. CTRL + ALT + DELETE. CTRL + ALT + DELETE. .... EH! How do I exit this SIM FINANCE/ECONOMY game?

I requested the previous link to be removed as I have received a far more comprehensive outline of detailed events. Thanks to the PIF investor who has put the time and research into this document. Seamisty

Duped said:

Basically it was a poor regulatory environment combined with ASIC's active promotion of the Financial Advisor industry culminating in a perfect storm. -----------

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And to complement this, Duped, here is post #283 from a thread dedicated to MFS Ltd.
Post #284 adds salt to this wound. Both posts are PIF history which hopefully will be part of current examinations.

mfsperth said:

!.
Presumably legal oversight and advice to the MFS PIF came from its legal advisers Mallesons Stephen Jaques in Brisbane. This would include one imagines what the controlling entity could and couldn’t do.

2.
Here is a list of those were on the Compliance Committee of MFS PIF. A compliance committee ensures that the fund operates in accordance with the Constitution and PDS.

Andy Esteban, Chairman, external member, resigned?

Ray Kellerman, external member, resigned?

David Kennedy, internal member, 13 Feb to 7 Mar 2008.

Mike Skepper, Compliance Mgr, left day unknown

Phil Colley, Sr. Compliance Officer left 16 April 2008

By invitation:

Craig White

Guy Hutchings

John Whateley, independent non-executive director

Guy Farrands, CEO of MFS Diversified, now called GEO Property

Craig McIntosh, CEO MFS Alternative Asset Mgt, left 7 March 2008

Here is a list of those on the MFS Related Party and Conflicts [of interest] Committee;

Jack Diamond, non-executive director, resigned 2 May 2008

Deborah Beale, non-executive director, resigned 18 Feb 2008

John Whateley, non-executive director, resigned 2 May 2008

By invitation:

Guy Hutchings, resigned 4 July

Kim Kercher, company secretary, resigned 22 Feb 2008

Tasso Corolis, resigned 12 Feb 2008, head of risk and compliance

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seamisty said:

Anyone else feel like an ant? (I like the last bit!!) Seamisty


THE ANT AND THE GRASSHOPPER....

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I fear that the MFS crew have only heard the version by Sam the Eagle from on Muppet show. The moralistic punch line being replaced by 'come winter the Grasshopper jumped in his Jag and headed to Miami'. Or something along those lines.

Life imitating art or a premonition. More likely a thinly veiled warning. Sufficiently countered by ASIC.

Get out of the way ASIC.

seamisty said:

I requested the previous link to be removed as I have received a far more comprehensive outline of detailed events. Thanks to the PIF investor who has put the time and research into this document. Seamisty

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Re post 5712
Excellent piece of work on the "Timeline" Seamisty - many thanks to you and the "PIF Investor". A great investor instrument when trying to come to grips with and get your bearings on this unravelling & somewhat approaching a conspiratorial saga.

I have just learned that a very special lady, a fellow PIF investor 'Sundale' has lost her battle with cancer earlier this month.
Like many PIF investors looking for answers and solutions, after attending one of the WC travelling road shows starring Jenny Hutson pledging a return of full unit value and imminent distributions, she took her by her word and offered full support. Also like many of us, she soon realised the solutions offered by Jenny Hutson of Wellington Capital were not forthcoming. Many, many times her medication and treatment was compromised through lack of funds. I remember how happy she was when she received an extra $20 a fortnight from Centrelink because it helped to pay to feed her little dog.

I am truly saddened and offer her son and family my sincere condolences. I have a plant she sent me and will treasure it always. Her passing renews and strengthens my resolve to bring the greedy 'bottom feeders' to account for their despicable actions of putting themselves before the very people who funded their well paid for egos, material possesions and affluent lifestyles. Especially when no apologies or remorse has been offered, just the eternal merry go round of buck shifting, memory loss, and even worse, silence. For all those responsible, hang your heads in shame, and next time you quaff that glass of wine, think of those that continue to suffer and those that lost their battle without seeing justice done.

If justice does not prevail in this bloody fiasco, then it is a sad, sad country we live in.

Seamisty

seamisty said:

Unfortunately Julia there is nothing brief regarding this saga and some investors have lost millions, a direct result of alleged missapropiation of PIF money by previous MFS/OCV directors/wmployees and what some PIF investors consider further avoidable losses under current management, Wellington Capital. There is a timeline of events, I will see if a link can be posted. Seamisty

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Many thanks to those of you who responded to my question.
What a truly horrible saga. I'm really sorry for all the stress you must all be enduring.
Sad, especially, about the lady who died recently.
My best wishes to all of you for an eventual outcome which affords you some justice.

Julia said:

Many thanks to those of you who responded to my question.
What a truly horrible saga. I'm really sorry for all the stress you must all be enduring.
Sad, especially, about the lady who died recently.
My best wishes to all of you for an eventual outcome which affords you some justice.

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Thanks Julia, PIF investors welcome genuine support and continually hope that eventually someone in a responsible position with the means to make a difference will take the opportunity to put PIF investors story out there and get some much needed recognition for us. Unfortunately, when the word 'lawyer' is mentioned, it appears a code of silence is triggered because I can assure you it is not for lack of trying to get some media coverage. Maybe we should be approaching film producers instead of media journalists???? All suggestions welcomed.


Seamisty

seamisty said:

I have just learned that a very special lady, a fellow PIF investor 'Sundale' has lost her battle with cancer earlier this month.
Like many PIF investors looking for answers and solutions, after attending one of the WC travelling road shows starring Jenny Hutson pledging a return of full unit value and imminent distributions, she took her by her word and offered full support. Also like many of us, she soon realised the solutions offered by Jenny Hutson of Wellington Capital were not forthcoming. Many, many times her medication and treatment was compromised through lack of funds. I remember how happy she was when she received an extra $20 a fortnight from Centrelink because it helped to pay to feed her little dog.

I am truly saddened and offer her son and family my sincere condolences. I have a plant she sent me and will treasure it always. Her passing renews and strengthens my resolve to bring the greedy 'bottom feeders' to account for their despicable actions of putting themselves before the very people who funded their well paid for egos, material possesions and affluent lifestyles. Especially when no apologies or remorse has been offered, just the eternal merry go round of buck shifting, memory loss, and even worse, silence. For all those responsible, hang your heads in shame, and next time you quaff that glass of wine, think of those that continue to suffer and those that lost their battle without seeing justice done.

If justice does not prevail in this bloody fiasco, then it is a sad, sad country we live in.

Seamisty

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I suggest that everyone should copy this and email it to Wellington.----------- I just have!!!!!

If you don't have an email address handy, use Caroline Snow [csnow@wellcap.com.au]