This is a mobile optimized page that loads fast, if you want to load the real page, click this text.

Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

Jump to new
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

You're most welcome, Mellifuous; sorry I spelled your name wrong.

Cookie
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Cookie1 thanks for posting the ARF articles - the one on "Where the Property Men Went" is particularly illuminating. In the Craig White piece there is a very important bit of information "An insurer is funding him against ASIC's court action".

If he is found to have misappropriated PIF funds there would be no payout on any Directors and Officers insurance because such policies do not cover illegal activities. So why would an insurer fund his defence? Who is the insurer acting on behalf of - White personally? MFS? I doubt it since the likelihood of a payout under D&O insurance is remote. It may be that a negative result (White found guilty) may impact on other corporate insurance MFS maintained - possible. Or is it a cover? - as White clearly does not have the same financial resources as his fellow conspirators, is one or more of the other defendants funding the person who is the weakest link in the ASIC case?

The Brisbane Supreme Court site lists the following legal representation for the ASIC case:

ANDERSON DAVID MARK Respondent DIBBSBARKER
AUSTRALIAN SECURITIES AND INVESTMENTS COMMISSION Applicant Self Represented
HUTCHINGS GUY Respondent
KING MICHAEL CHRISTODOULOU Respondent Self Represented
MANAGED INVESTMENTS LIMITED 101634146 Respondent MCCULLOUGH ROBERTSON
OCTAVIAR ADMINISTRATION PTY LIMITED 101069390 Respondent
OCTAVIAR CASTLE PTY LTD 124889381 Respondent
WATTS MARILYN Respondent JAMES CONOMOS LAWYERS
WHITE CRAIG ROBERT Respondent BRIAN BARTLEY & ASSOCIATES

Guy Hutchins is not listed as having representation. As we know ex-criminal lawyer Michael King is representing himself. And our former RE is represented by the usual suspects.

Selciper, I think we need to look at the D&O insurance angle a lot more closely.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Cookie1 said:
You're most welcome, Mellifuous; sorry I spelled your name wrong.

Cookie
Click to expand...

hahah.. it's an intentional mispelling on my part.

in the past when I've gone to get 'mellifluous', it was already taken, so I intentionally misspelt it. Like I'd never get allan.. so I settle for allan161.

no big deal one way or the other.

Thanks.

..
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Marcom,
The MyLaw extract I recently posted re "directors' insurance and any associated criminal activity" was the best summary I could find.
Surely in any case proven criminal activity by defendant(s) would be to the financial advantage of the insurers.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF


Isn't it the case that ASIC is pursing the matter and if ASIC is successful then your class action is satisifed to the extent of ASIC's action?

Then, if ASIC is not successful then wouldn't your class action proceed for the full amount of the claim?

If this is correct, then the only difference is, that if ASIC wins, then the money goes to your fund, whereas if your class action is successful then the money is distributed to members of the action.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Can somebody please explain to me why there is no conflict of interest in McCullough Robertson representing MFS in the matter mentioned in post 5041This firm has always represented the PIF and now they are representing the "enemy" while still representing us in other litigations. I know as you all do the connection with this firm of JH. I am getting more confused every time I read something like this. How can this firm divorce itself from the PIF one minute and then represent the people who have "misused" OUR hard earned money. Somebody, to quote Pauline Hanson, 'PLEASE EXPLAIN.'
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF


Yes and if the insurer wanted to ensure that White was found guilty they would simply leave him with no funding for his defence. An insurer could do this based on an assessment that the case probably involves illegal actions on White's part. White may then be forced to simply plead guilty to avoid the large court costs and relieve the insurer of any liability. Alternatively, faced with the potential of a custodial sentence and no funds White could apply for legal aid. At this stage the proceedings are a civil matter as opposed to criminal proceedings, so legal aid may be difficult to obtain.

The other thing that I found odd about the article is White's quote " I have had nothing to do with the MFS executives. I have not been approached". In all the things he could have mentioned why say that!

The other thing that stands out in the article is none of the MFS executives maintained their innocence or said that they would "strenuously defend ASIC's charges." One would presume that White as a professed "bush lawyer" would have made some claim of innocence - "I only did it for the good of the company, I received no gain at all." Pity that that is no defence against breaches of the Corporations Act.

King had a go early in the piece, but now it is just down to "I am not going to be sitting around, spending my life being occupied by negative court cases." No Michael you won't be spending your time just sitting around occupied by negative court case as you will be headed for prison son! And if you want to know exactly what life is like as a corporate criminal just contact Brad Cooper of HIH fame who is serving 5 years and is incarcerated at Kempsey Prison on the NSW north coast - yes that's the new prison that has a prison population of 95% aboriginal people. Brad's having a ripper of a time just sitting around.

Another thing that the MFS executive seem to share these days is the desire to reinvent themselves in PRIVATE COMPANIES - that's right away from the regulatory gaze.

Charles36 Yes this certainly does highlight the conflicted position of JH and our RE. Surely Brisbane is not so small a city that other law firms can't be found!
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

marcom said:
Remember it ain't over 'til THE FAT LADY SINGS...
Click to expand...

Well, she has got just 3 hours 50 minutes Queensland time until the Sh*t hits the fan IMO!!!

..................... do you reckon it will be a seranade or a dirge???
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

JohnH said:
Well, she has got just 3 hours 50 minutes Queensland time until the Sh*t hits the fan IMO!!!

..................... do you reckon it will be a seranade or a dirge???
Click to expand...
Regardless of whether we get the promised update or not or what the content will be I hope all investors voice their opinions/complaints to WC and ALL relevant regulatory authorities. This ongoing arrogant treatment is not acceptable. I have at least three pieces of evidence from WC stipulating the Dec update would be released on the NSX and mailed to PIF investors in Jan. We also have our last PIF August 2009 update stating 'the next update is due to be released at the end of Dec' (2009). With no apology or announcement to state differently and still being assured by Caroline Snow on the 28th Jan 2010 (and because I take this as a personal insult from WC ) I once again quote::::


"Investor updates are published every four months - April, August and December, and are published during the following month. The December update is due to be released in January, and will be released via the NSX".


Jenny Hutson was not available for 2 weeks as at the 15th Jan which WC staff were well aware of. If this is the reason we did not receive the update which is A MONTH OVERDUE then we are all STUFFED!!!! I believe it should have been prepared before WC had two and a half weeks holiday over Xmas and new year. Most able bodied PIF investors who are fortunate to be healthy enough are back in the bloody work force and did not have the priveledge of being financially secure enough to shut office and down tools for this period of time!!! (fish don't have access to calendars!!!!) Another blatant demonstration of WC incompetence and willingness to deceive PIF investors. Fortunately for us because of the well documented evidence of the lack of WC performance and the ongoing misleading communications being delivered from WC staff we have the growing sympathy of the regulators, it is not a waste of time reporting incompetence so keep those complaints rolling!!. So yes Communique, I do use this forum to vent and get my gripes off my chest, but I do so on behalf of others as well, some with more at stake than me and many with far less who have simply given up. I know of many working tirelessly behind the scenes and I commend you all. I was full of hope and optimism when I voted for Jenny Hutson and Wellington Capital, I just hope investors in the WC managed trusts::


Brisbane Industrial Property Trust
Rimcorp Property Trust No. 4

don't suffer the same fate as PIF investors if new tenants are not secured for the industrial warehouses which have been vacant for some time at Eagle Farm owned by those trusts. Tomorrow is another day and will be a busy one regardless. Seamisty
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Article in the Brisbane Times 31/01/10:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/sunkids-and-courtroom-shadows-20100131-n6j1.html

Sunkids and courtroom shadows
SCOTT ROCHFORT
January 31, 2010

The final piece of the carcass of the collapsed Octaviar Limited (aka MFS) will be offered to potential buyers today. The liquidator of the financial engineer is expected to put the Sunkids childcare business officially up for sale.

Bentleys Corporate Recovery is expected to open a ''dataroom'' for potential buyers of the business, which operates 20 centres and owns 36 other centres and development sites across Australia.

The Sunkids sale comes two years after the initial implosion of MFS. There have already been more than 200 expressions of interest.

However, the creditors and former shareholders of the fallen MFS and its satellites are probably more focused on the liquidator's public examination of several former high flyers in the company in April.

The former MFS chief executive, Michael King, has been summonsed to a NSW Supreme Court examination where he is expected to provide his first public explanation of the collapse of the company, which has more than $2 billion of liabilities.

Other ex-MFS staff summonsed to appear include another former chief executive, Craig White, and David Anderson, the ex-chief financial officer and a well-paid consultant to MFS's former liquidator, Deloitte.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Quote from http://www.nsxa.com.au/ftp/news/021722438.PDF

"It remains unlikely that the Fund will return to a situation where regular distributions are a feature of the Fund"


So there it is, we will get our one of 3 cent return of capital, JH will draw management fees for how ever long it takes to restore unit values? I don't think so!!!! Seamisty
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF


http://www.nsxa.com.au/ftp/news/021722438.PDF

"... Report of meeting of committee members

The Investor Advisory Committee has met for its first meeting of members with the Fund's management team. It is noted that a large amount of correspondence from fellow Unitholders has been received by email and post, and that many Unitholders have expressed disappointment that they had not received prompt individual responses. This correspondence was tabled and discussed with the Fund's management team.

Much of the correspondence received by the Investor Advisory Committee seeks information that is not publicly available. Whilst the committee is able to meet with the Fund's management team, they are unable to provide us with information that is not available to all Unitholders.

Of particular interest was the ASIC proceedings which were commenced in November 2009. As a committtee we will be watching these proceedings with interest and we are sure all Unitholders will be. We have been advised that the statement of claim sets out in detail the events that ASIC claims to have happened around the drawdown of the Royal Bank of Scotland loan in November 2007.

On a more positive note, the Wollongong project seems to progressing well, and the Fund's management team explained to us that completion and sale of the apartments in this complex will allow the promised 3 cent cash payment to be made to Unitholders - a payment we are sure will be welcomed.

We will continue to table your correspondence at our meetings with the Fund's management team and report back to you in investor updates.
..."

The two striking things about this 'Report' within the 'Update' (from an outsider's point of view) are:-

1. That the Investor Advisory Committee adds absolutely nothing to the Update itself - readers will note that the 'Report' is no more than a 'duplication/recording' of part of the 'Update', and;

2. The statement "... they are unable to provide us with information that is not available to all Unitholders. ..." shows the W.C. WOULD not disclose information that would not be shared with the remainder of the members of the fund in any event.

Seems to me that your IAC is just about the same waste of time that the ICC is to the PFMF. Seems like your IAC is no more that something that generates 'a false sense of security' (so to speak) - a 'tape recording', or an 'echo' of what W.C. says.

Much ado about nothing.

Tell you nothing, take you nowhere.

..
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Cookie1 said:
Marcom,

I've scanned and attached the article entitled "ASIC under spotlight over trusts" from the Weekend AFR today.

Cheers, Cookie1
Click to expand...

Thanks cookie1.

I'm sure you all know this but ... just in case.

PIF is different from these trusts. These trusts borrow money and hold (i.e. 'own') property. Leveraging the investors money with money borrowed from banks to buy and hold properties. Whereas PIF is more like a bank, a lender. PIF holds mortgages over property bought by others.

I doubt it but PIF might actually turn out to be a lender to some of these trusts.

Furthermore, I speculate, the only power we (PIF) can assert over those properties (if PIF's RE can't reach an acceptable compromise to paying the outstanding debt with the borrower) is the Power of Sale. My understanding is that (unless PIF comes to an agreement with the borrower) PIF CANNOT just take possesion of the land, boot the borrower out and then do whatever PIF wants with the property. My experience is with domestic property whereas PIF's mortgages are commercial mortgages so I could be wrong.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF


Hi Duped,

The PIF is like the PFMF, and they each functioned like a sloppily run bank.

The term "trust/fund" is no more than part of the general description of the enterprise, it does not depict the true nature of the enterprise.

When a borrower defaults, the fund does step in and, either works with the borrower to improve the fund's chances of success, or alternatively appoints a receiver which takes control of the borrower to maximize the return for the mortgagee (the Fund).

A liquidator would wind up the borrower.

..
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Am I wrong, Has the IAC members who maybe unit holders, received information that is not available to the public from the RE. Firstly ar we not all unit holders and for all intents and purposes separate from members of the public, therefore how can it be that certain unit holders are privileged to this alleged information to the detriment of other unit holders. Are we not all equal? In any case I gave up on the IAC a long time ago as far as I am concerned they are a waste of space on any documentation coming from the RE. If I had of been elected, I wasn't because I did not nominate, RESIGN.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

The (expensively printed) update should have contained a disclaimer saying “This document should be read only by the gullible.”

Pages are filled with blandness that hardly meets head-on our increasing concerns.

The IAC section is, to put it kindly, pathetic. Why hasn’t the IAC signed off individually on its reported observations? Or have I missed something? And, of course, no long-awaited election result figures are offered.

Interesting to note that funeral black has replaced the shiny red jacket. What might this foreshadow? I hate to think about it.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Cookie1 said:
There's another article of interest in the Weekend Australian Financial Review today in the Perspective section entitled "Where the Property Men Went" by Lisa Allen.
...
Thanks to Lisa Allen of the AFR for her article.
Cheers, Cookie1
Click to expand...

Thanks for the posting cookie1.

I can see now how King is playing this. First his 'interview' with reporter Nick Nichols and now this. In the Nichols article he sported at-peace-with-the-planet attire and blamed Short Sellers. Painting himself as a victim, doing his best and fallible.

In this article he is quoted as saying "provided I do certain things it is settled and life moves on" and "I am not going to be sitting around, spending my life being occupied by negative court cases. ... I will be working to pay off my obligations ..." The article paints him as taking it on the chin, i.e. honourable. I know a lot of people who would read the article and view him as a true blue Aussie and his accusers as bureaucratic wowsers.

Just like Swan painted us PIF investors as greedy (IMO) when confronted by the question from the floor from a PIF investor at his LSE talk last year. Absolute rubbish. Swan has no idea how this 'investment' was sold to me. I would have had to go AGAINST the recommendation of my AFS Licensed (a system sponsored by ASIC) advisor to avoid ending up in this thing.

We're being stabbed in the back here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

MA1 - MA Credit Income Trust
Replies
3
Views
480
Dona Ferentes
DGT - DigiCo Infrastructure REIT
Replies
8
Views
995
Dona Ferentes
Coolabah Capital
Replies
5
Views
1K
divs4ever
VBTC - VanEck Bitcoin ETF
2 3
Replies
40
Views
4K
Garpal Gumnut
November 2024 DDD
2 3
Replies
53
Views
5K
ducati916
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more...