Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

seamisty · 13 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

seamisty said:
Hi All, Just to let you know I lodged the following complaint with C Snow at WC this morning on behalf of myself and other Action Group members. I will post my response if and when received. Cheers, Seamisty

Hi Caroline,
I would like to make a formal complaint regarding the late PIF investor update which was due to be released at the end of Dec 2009 as promised by Wellington Capital.

I would also like to know the voting results of the IAC and why approximately six months after the election there has been no report from the IAC committee to unitholders, or will the results and report be included in the overdue update? If not, then I would like this issue lodged as an official complaint also.

Was the 11% voting power of the PIF wholesale fund exercised by WC in the IAC election process? I was distinctly told by WC hotline staff that WC definitely would not be using these votes but would like this clarified by yourself regardless. Has any of the IAC elected representatives provided a contact email to communicate with other investors? If so please provide me with them.

Hi all, I have received a response from WC re the above complaint. Initially I felt like the village idiot when I read it, but then realised this is just another WC stalling tactic!! I know for a fact that there has been other AG members and PIF investors who have contacted WC (including Breaker) regarding the IAC results from when they were first released and to date I have not heard of anyone having received a satisfactory reply. Please correct me if I am wrong. I will follow the time delaying proceedure and keep you informed of the progress (or lack of). I assume the long winded process of receiving a simple answer to a simple question is to deter investors from making complaints. Regards, Seamisty

13 January 2010
Ms XXXXXXXXXXXX
PIF Action Group

Dear Ms XXXXXXXXXX
YOTJR RECENT COMPLAINT
By email received on 1l January 201,0, you provided us with information which we are treating as a
complaint and which will be handled in accordance with our Internal Dispute Resolution Program. Apart
from the information you provided to us when making your Complaint, we invite you now to provide us with
any other information which you think would be useful or helpful in resolving your Complaint, If there is
any information of this kind, would you please send it to Caroline Snow, the designated Complaints Officer
in the next seven days. I will then review your written Complaint in detail or altematively, assign your
Complaint to one of our Complaints Ofhcers to review and investigate your Complaint in detail.
I anticipate that a decision on your Complaint will be conveyed to you by 5.00pm 23 February 2010.
So far as is practical, the investigation will involve enquiries being made within our Company and the
checking of circumstances you have mentioned against records we have or based on recollections of our staff
with whom you have had contact.
If you feel there is an issue relating to your privacy, which remains unresolved, or you wish the Privacy
Commissioner to further investigate your Complaint, you can contact the Office of the Privacy
Commissioner as detailed below:
Office of the Privacy Commissioner
GPO Box 5218
SYDNEY NSW 1042
Telephone: 1300 363 992 (local call anywhere in Australia)
Email: pivacy@privacy.gov.au
The Company is a member of an independent dispute resolution scheme, the Financial Ombudsman Service
('FOS'). If , at any time, you feel your Complaint remains unresolved or you wish FOS to further investigate
your Complaint, you can contact FOS as detailed below:
Financial Ombudsman Service
GPO Box 3
MELBOURNE VIC 3OO1
Telephone: (03) 9613 6399
Facsimile: (03) 9613 6399
Internet: http://www. fos.org.au
Email: info@fos.org.au
Wellington Capital L ¡m ¡ted
Level 22 307 Queen Street Brisbane Qld 4000 GPO Box 694 Brisbane eld 4001
T 07 3009 9800 F 07 3009 9893 E info@wellcap.com.au W www.wellcap.com.au
ACN 1 1 4 248 458 . AFSL 291 562
Corporate Finance

JohnH · 13 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

seamisty said:
Hi all, I have received a response from WC re the above complaint. Initially I felt like the village idiot when I read it, but then realised this is just another WC stalling tactic!! I know for a fact that there has been other AG members and PIF investors who have contacted WC (including Breaker) regarding the IAC results from when they were first released and to date I have not heard of anyone having received a satisfactory reply. Please correct me if I am wrong. I will follow the time delaying proceedure and keep you informed of the progress (or lack of). I assume the long winded process of receiving a simple answer to a simple question is to deter investors from making complaints. Regards, Seamisty

13 January 2010
Ms XXXXXXXXXXXX
PIF Action Group

Dear Ms XXXXXXXXXX
YOTJR RECENT COMPLAINT
By email received on 1l January 201,0, you provided us with information which we are treating as a
complaint and which will be handled in accordance with our Internal Dispute Resolution Program. Apart
from the information you provided to us when making your Complaint, we invite you now to provide us with
any other information which you think would be useful or helpful in resolving your Complaint, If there is
any information of this kind, would you please send it to Caroline Snow, the designated Complaints Officer
in the next seven days. I will then review your written Complaint in detail or altematively, assign your
Complaint to one of our Complaints Ofhcers to review and investigate your Complaint in detail.
I anticipate that a decision on your Complaint will be conveyed to you by 5.00pm 23 February 2010.
So far as is practical, the investigation will involve enquiries being made within our Company and the
checking of circumstances you have mentioned against records we have or based on recollections of our staff
with whom you have had contact.
If you feel there is an issue relating to your privacy, which remains unresolved, or you wish the Privacy
Commissioner to further investigate your Complaint, you can contact the Office of the Privacy
Commissioner as detailed below:
Office of the Privacy Commissioner
GPO Box 5218
SYDNEY NSW 1042
Telephone: 1300 363 992 (local call anywhere in Australia)
Email: pivacy@privacy.gov.au
The Company is a member of an independent dispute resolution scheme, the Financial Ombudsman Service
('FOS'). If , at any time, you feel your Complaint remains unresolved or you wish FOS to further investigate
your Complaint, you can contact FOS as detailed below:
Financial Ombudsman Service
GPO Box 3
MELBOURNE VIC 3OO1
Telephone: (03) 9613 6399
Facsimile: (03) 9613 6399
Internet: http://www. fos.org.au
Email: info@fos.org.au
Wellington Capital L ¡m ¡ted
Level 22 307 Queen Street Brisbane Qld 4000 GPO Box 694 Brisbane eld 4001
T 07 3009 9800 F 07 3009 9893 E info@wellcap.com.au W www.wellcap.com.au
ACN 1 1 4 248 458 . AFSL 291 562
Corporate Finance

Seamisty................... This from a (so called) professional organisation???? ......The good Lord help us all!!!!

mellifuous · 13 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

"... I anticipate that a decision on your Complaint will be conveyed to you by 5.00pm 23 February 2010. ..."

ha ha ha ha

just one of those things one gets to read that give one a really good belly laugh.

Yes, it's all such a complex matter and will take time to complete .. ha ha ha

simgrund · 13 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

JohnH said:
Seamisty.(post 4900).................. This from a (so called) professional organisation???? ......The good Lord help us all!!!!

Far from fearlessly, I will stick my neck out in defence of Ms Snow.
Her job description sourced from WC site is as below

Caroline Snow - LL.B (Hon) Age 30
Systems Manager
Caroline is the Systems Manager for the Premium Income Fund. Caroline is responsible for the management of the internal processes of the Fund and for the day-to-day management of investor communications.
In her role with the Premium Income Fund, Caroline draws on her experience as an associate Director of Wellington Capital, where Caroline has been involved in a wide variety of funds management issues, including the following:

• commercial documentation in relation to mergers, acquisitions and investments;
• monitoring and evaluating investor relations activities;
• undertaking research and analysis concerning investment opportunities; and
• developing and maintaining relationships with analysts and institutions.

It appears since the start of "compliance plan", that ALL approaches to WC are now categorised as complaints. Redirection into "complaints" basket follows and PIF is waiting some weeks for proforma response.
Perhaps it is unfair to see Ms Snow snowed under our avalanches of complaints.
Perhaps we could self-regulate our contacts with WC by placing
either "ENQUIRY" or "COMPLAINT" as the subject of the correspondence.
Perhaps then such simple questions as election results for IAC would be treated as requested and not lobbed into "C" basket.
And Ms Snow could fully transfer her investment skills, currently under utilised due to fund stagnation, to those of "INFORMATION OFFICER".
It would be fair to expect a dramatic improvement in "investor relations"
What do you think, seamisty

Cookie1 · 13 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Marcom (post #4889). I know it's a bit late now but you were asking about the article in the AFR 8/01/10 entitled "Retiree group fumes over frozen assets" - attached is a scanned copy of the article which I got from the library this afternoon.

seamisty · 14 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

simgrund said:
Far from fearlessly, I will stick my neck out in defence of Ms Snow.
Her job description sourced from WC site is as below

Caroline Snow - LL.B (Hon) Age 30
Systems Manager
Caroline is the Systems Manager for the Premium Income Fund. Caroline is responsible for the management of the internal processes of the Fund and for the day-to-day management of investor communications.
In her role with the Premium Income Fund, Caroline draws on her experience as an associate Director of Wellington Capital, where Caroline has been involved in a wide variety of funds management issues, including the following:

• commercial documentation in relation to mergers, acquisitions and investments;
• monitoring and evaluating investor relations activities;
• undertaking research and analysis concerning investment opportunities; and
• developing and maintaining relationships with analysts and institutions.

It appears since the start of "compliance plan", that ALL approaches to WC are now categorised as complaints. Redirection into "complaints" basket follows and PIF is waiting some weeks for proforma response.
Perhaps it is unfair to see Ms Snow snowed under our avalanches of complaints.
Perhaps we could self-regulate our contacts with WC by placing
either "ENQUIRY" or "COMPLAINT" as the subject of the correspondence.
Perhaps then such simple questions as election results for IAC would be treated as requested and not lobbed into "C" basket.
And Ms Snow could fully transfer her investment skills, currently under utilised due to fund stagnation, to those of "INFORMATION OFFICER".
It would be fair to expect a dramatic improvement in "investor relations"
What do you think, seamisty

My view simgrund is that WC is clutching at anything that will provide a delaying tactic to addrees PIF issues and I can tell you I have enquiries dating back nearly a year ago that still remain unanswered, ie the PIF loan which I not only sent to WC, I also fowarded to Nick Nichols, business editor of the Gold Coast Bulletin::

Monday, 27 April 2009 8:57:29 AM
To: Nick Nichols (nicholsn@gcb.newsltd.com.au)

Hi Nick,
In addition to my previous correspondence to you please note I asked WC via Caroline Snow, Jenny Hutson and the hotline staff in Mar on several occasions to answer the following:::In the Interim financial report released today (Mar 11), on page 14:::
The interest bearing loan is secured by a fixed and floating charge over all of the assets of the Fund. The interest rate is
25%pa. The loan is repayable by 31 March 2009 and early repayment is allowable should circumstances permit.:::::
On page 26 of the PIF annual report, 30 June 2008, it states the loan rate as 20% due to mature 30th Nov 2008. I asked when did the interest rate change from 20% to 25%?::

Despite re asking this I was never given an answer. In view of the fact that Ms Hutson touted her areas of expertise as specialising in corporate finance we were stunned to hear that 'this was the going rate' for this type of loan in this economic environment. All the more reason for our funds to be re lent to take advantage of the current environment if developers are willing to pay these exorbonent rates which would be the perfect opportunity to add value to our depleted fund rather than use our own capital to pay a possible one of distribution and her fees. Jh was overwhelmingly elected as RE by unitholders on the promise of rebuilding unit value and ongoing distributions, not for the purpose of liquidating of our assets to meet prior promises that cannot be met. These are serious issues that investors need to be fully informed of.
Regards XXXXXXX

To this day, having re sent the initial enquiry to our complants officer, Caroline Snow on many occassions, the issue has never been addressed!!
It was only from further research we strongly suspect the finance was provided from Venerdi finance in the form of mezzanine debt, a company with previous links to WC.

The fact remains, Wellington Capital has not lived up to their promises.
I doubt it will be nominated for 'Fund Manager of the last two years'
seamisty

mellifuous · 14 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

seamisty said:
My view simgrund is that WC is clutching at anything that will provide a delaying tactic to addrees PIF issues and I can tell you I have enquiries dating back nearly a year ago that still remain unanswered,

Seamisty, you hit it on the head. For a start, a manager will not tell you something that manager is not going to tell you. Next, that manager might feel compelled under some pressure to tell you more than that manager might otherwise tell you.

Whether you put it as a complaint or a query, I'll bet the preceding observations apply.

Why put it as a complaint if it's going to take nearly two months to get a response? The complaints process clearly delays progress, and there is no obliqation to give you the answer you want. There are many reasons to give for a failure to provide information, and we've seen many of them given by manager from time to time.

The right thing to do is go straight to ASIC. I getting a warm and fuzzy feeling that ASIC is doing things. Sure it might not be doing things as we think they are.

It might be that ASIC phones a manager and says "G'day Fred (or whatever), sorry to bother you .. but we've received another one of those silly complaints .. could you [do this/do that]. We know you're doing your best, but just to keep the punters happy, could you [do this/do that] .. pretty please?"

I asked 35 questions of the manager, and the manager responded. I was surprised to see this statement in the reply: "... Whilst I must be careful in providing any projections (ASIC would frown on such behaviour) ...".

Now, it might be nothing, but directors of b/t had made public statements about the price of a unit in the future (that is would be $0.80) and that the fund would be strong. Such statements were unqualified and I made several compaints to ASIC about them.

I would like to think that ASIC did have a 'chat' (as the example I made up) to the manager and asked them to tone it down. The words 'frown' seems to be used in a knowingly mocking way.

Anyway, if there are any investors in the FMF here, the question, answers, and my reply comments (still updating) can be found at: http://www.moneymagik.com/answers_reply.pdf

I think the best thing to do it be persistent with ASIC. They are the regulators. Create your complaint with a word processor and then use ecomplaints.

If you want a place to put the complaints (subject to my checking the contents), then I'm happy to allocate a page all members will be able to reference.

In that way, all your members can reference all the complaints and the progress (if any) of any complaint can be monitored.

eg. at moneymagik.com/oct/complaints

Just a thought ... accept or reject .. up to you.

I believe that taking the fund's slow complaints channel does no more than allow what ever you complain about to continue unabated.

Thanks.

seamisty · 14 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Quote mellifuous,
The right thing to do is go straight to ASIC.
Yes I agree mellifuous and I will inform ASIC of the issue. Talk about taxing investors intelligence!!! It appears WC are doing everything they can to hinder parting with PIF related information. When something as simple as providing the results of the IAC vote has to turn into a drawn out saga it only creates suspicion and distrust as to the real reasons the results have not been publicised. WC are obviously not concerned with PIF investor sentiment. :headshake Seamisty

seamisty · 14 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I was contacted by another PIF investor this morning who suggested it would be a good idea if others making general complaints/enquiries to WC would also post them on the forum for us all to monitor the progress/responses or lack of as it appears this thread is becoming increasingly popular as the only apparent comprehensive source of PIF related news/information. Seamisty

selciper · 14 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Could it be that WC now bitterly regret having agreed to the formation of the IAC? As if they hadn't enough problems on their plate before announcing the ballot!

After all, publishing the relevant numbers after any election is hardly a novel concept. So, why the extraordinary delay?

Great to see the ever-increasing number of hits being received by this forum.

mellifuous · 14 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

seamisty said:
I was contacted by another PIF investor this morning who suggested it would be a good idea if others making general complaints/enquiries to WC would also post them on the forum for us all to monitor the progress/responses or lack of as it appears this thread is becoming increasingly popular as the only apparent comprehensive source of PIF related news/information. Seamisty

Please don't forget my offer to give you space on my website and then you'll have a link to look at them all in one place.

It works for us : http://www.moneymagik.com/complaints.php

[moneymagik was NOT a site created by me .. it is a site lent to me by a friend - it's not an investment site - just a name he picked up some time ago]

seamisty · 14 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It has been a concern of mine for quite some time that Jenny Hutson and Wellington Capital staff have used the following excuse to avoid providing certain general fund related information::
'Wellington Capital Limited as responsible entity of the Premium Income Fund takes its disclosure obligations under the Corporations Act 2001 (Cth) and the National Stock Exchange Listing Rule'

There have been many instances where I considered investors could have been updated re http://www.newpif.com.au/ with certain non price sensitive PIF related news providing us with extra communication and transparancy as originally promised so I have asked someone at the NSX to clarify this issue on behalf of PIF Action Group members and received the following:::

All price sensitive information needs to come to the Exchange first. However there is plenty of information that doesn’t fall into that category.

Taking an example that falls in neutral territory, the major banks all make various media releases all the time regarding what they are doing and what’s important to them and their marketing. But very little of that makes its way to the ASX announcements. Most just appears on the company’s website. Again the exchanges are only concerned with price sensitive information and other corporate information e.g. changes to key personnel etc.::::

You are correct selciper, it certainly appears the forum activity has increased. Investor apathy is being replaced with anger and frustration and rightfully justified in my opinion. Cheers to all who support us and participate on here no matter how seldom you post. Seamisty

seamisty · 14 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

mellifuous said:
Please don't forget my offer to give you space on my website and then you'll have a link to look at them all in one place.

It works for us : http://www.moneymagik.com/complaints.php

[moneymagik was NOT a site created by me .. it is a site lent to me by a friend - it's not an investment site - just a name he picked up some time ago]

mellifuous I don't have a problem with suggestion, I just don't have the time to do anything about it. Cheers, seamisty

mellifuous · 14 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

seamisty said:
mellifuous I don't have a problem with suggestion, I just don't have the time to do anything about it. Cheers, seamisty

This link is created http://moneymagik.com/complaints_oct.php

If anyone wants to post a complaint, they're welcome to. If no one wants to use it, I won't be offended.

Just mail a copy to allan161@msn.com requesting it to be put on the link and it'll be done (subject to checking).

The link is dedicated, with no mentioned links to or from the rest of the website.

Thanks.

Duped · 14 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It's all good and well to get the good ship PIF in ship shape but what's WC's plan to do with it? What's the mission? What's the business plan for growth?

No plan and all this talk of battle reminds me of the Crimson Permantent Assurance from Monty Python's Meaning of Life. Enthusiastic after organising themselves, defeating their oppressors and releasing their shackles they set off for more battles and promptly (assuming the round earth theory is correct) tragically sail off the edge of the world. Is that where WC has us heading?

I've always been told that businesses never succeed if they don't have a plan. Not having ever had my own business: what would I know? Why is PIF so special?

Or is WC running PIF like a Berkshire Hathaway. Just trust the leader, the Oracle of Queensland. I've heard of another business with that MO - Madoff Investments. Where does our Oracle sit between these extremes?

seamisty · 14 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

mellifuous said:
This link is created http://moneymagik.com/complaints_oct.php

If anyone wants to post a complaint, they're welcome to. If no one wants to use it, I won't be offended.

Just mail a copy to allan161@msn.com requesting it to be put on the link and it'll be done (subject to checking).

The link is dedicated, with no mentioned links to or from the rest of the website.

Thanks.

I have emailed you my first official complaint (already posted on this forum) to be posted on the site, thanks, Seamisty

simgrund · 14 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

selciper said:
Could it be that WC now bitterly regret having agreed to the formation of the IAC? As if they hadn't enough problems on their plate before announcing the ballot!
After all, publishing the relevant numbers after any election is hardly a novel concept. So, why the extraordinary delay?
Great to see the ever-increasing number of hits being received by this forum.

Good day selciper,
Is it possible that such results could be listed outside WC records management as maybe required by, say, "Public disclosure" group that we may not be aware of?
For example, I was astonished to see on GOOGLE my Table Tennis competition results from way back. Alas, keyed in "IAC" and no joy.
Regards

mellifuous · 14 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

seamisty said:
I have emailed you my first official complaint (already posted on this forum) to be posted on the site, thanks, Seamisty

It's posted ---http://www.moneymagik.com/complaints_oct.php

Thanks Seamisty.

Duped · 14 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Cookie1 said:
Marcom (post #4889). I know it's a bit late now but you were asking about the article in the AFR 8/01/10 entitled "Retiree group fumes over frozen assets" - attached is a scanned copy of the article which I got from the library this afternoon.

Excellent. Thanks Cookie.

IMO: through their combined lack of action ASIC, APRA and the banks have just killed this type of Unlisted Fund. I'm sure the banks are quite pleased at having eliminated another sector of competition. I'll have to contain my repugnance at Wayne Swan the next time he gets on TV and winges and sooks about the behaviour of banks. Swan/Rudd have a chance to do something about it right here, right now.

After this experience, why would anyone ever invest in such a fund again? (Unless of course it's swept under the carpet by the combined spin of ASIC and Financial Advisors again at some time in the future.)

DepressedDad · 14 January 2010

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I think it's a very generous offer & a really good idea Mellifuous! A long list of unanswered complaints collated together is more justification & reason (not to mention evidence) for the groundswell of discontent with the current very unsatisfactory situation. We need to be united in every possible way to get immediate action. List away!!

Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

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