Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

JohnH said:

But the point is Burnt nobody came forward with a tangible alternative - I mean a name that could have been elected rather than "airy fairy" this is an alternative. I also went to the first PIFI meeting in Mudgeeraba, and all three meetings at the Convention Centre. There were things I didn't agree to (I voted no on item 3). However, now that JH has been voted in, I believe we should give her and her team a chance to perform, rather than continual knocking.

I accept that her communications could be a hell of a lot better, but I also accept that if expected funds do not come in on the expected date, then it is prudent to postpone (and I do believe it is postpone) payments until cash flow permits.

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John I hear what you're saying and understand your perspective. I did not attend the PIFI meeting, but my understanding is that JH gave assurances that other alternatives to listing the Fund would be offered. By the time it became apparant that this was not going to happen, it left very little time for anyone to try and organise any kind of strategy - (they're very clever). It's a lot to expect of individual people (who are only ordinary average people like you and me) to come up with a glossy, impressive alternative to present to 10,400 other investors in a matter of weeks.

I also attended all the meetings at GC, and personally I came away feeling sick in my stomach. To me it was all PR and show with no substance. Unfortunately, because the 2008 Annual Report came out so late (they're very clever), it didn't leave much time for investors to analyse factual information and compare it with WC's promises. If you really study the financial figures you will see that the projections and expectations that WC promoted cannot happen.

Also, I'm sorry but I think that JH making a committment to Unit Holders on 15th Oct to pay a distribution by the end of the month, and then not coming through with it, shows that she blatantly lied. She would have known on the 15th Oct. that there were extreme doubts about being able to make the payment and she should have been honest. In my books to highlight dishonesty is not knocking.

There are too many contradictory statements being made by JH, how can people have faith after analysing facts and trying to wade their way through contradictions and disappointments ?

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

PIFI Initiative Incorporated will continue to focus its energies on pursuing its objects of promoting and protecting the interests of members of the Premium Income Fund.
Nothing has changed in our focus or our purpose of achieving the most favourable outcome for unit holders.

We will continue to question and investigate all activities that do not appear to be in unit holders' best interests. We will go on to pursue whatever avenues of action are available, based on sound advice and opinion, to achieve the most favourable outcome possible.

PIFI is continuing to receive memberships and we encourage more PIF unit holders to join our association to be able to obtain further legal opinion and advice to ensure that we are properly informed of what has happened in the past and what is happening to our Fund now.

So, if you are sick of being misled and confused, or feel bullied or intimidated for having doubts and uncertainties of what is happening and what has happened, being made to feel that you have no right to question anything;
If you are prepared to join in and be pro-active in asserting your rights
- then please get in contact with us.

PIF Initiative Incorporated
P.O. Box 2065
Sunnybank Hills
Qld 4109
pifinitiative@gmail.com Investor I.D.will be required.

Members will receive a contact phone number.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

There will be a media release made today in relation to the Bond Street Custodians Ltd Nov 14th Federal Court Proceedings. Nothing will be resolved imminently but formal proceedure has been instigated by WC on behalf of the PIF. There is no further PIF news to report since the 28 Oct Investor Update at this point. This information is for free and you do not have to join either the AG, (which has no joining fee) or the PIFI to receive it. Regards,Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Burnt said:

Hi Mary,
Are you referring to the Bond Street Custodians case ? If so can you please share with us what information or details of this case that you have been given and also the source of your information.

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I think it was the PTQ v OCV decision that led to OCV bringing in the voluntary (sic ) administrator. One of my posts has a summary.

PTQ was suggesting pushing insolvency back to 2006. Gist I got from this part of the decision was PTQ were trying to suggest OCV(MFS) was insolvent when the $50M support facility was signed.

Why the PTQ (www.pt.qld.gov.au) want to hurt us Mum & Dad investors with their legal clout baffles me. (Tax payer backed clout I suspect) Maybe we're the lesser of 2 evils. Compared to the lack of due diligence they performed on MFS before handing over $350M cash. Or maybe it was a warning shot for JH.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Burnt said:

John I hear what you're saying and understand your perspective. I did not attend the PIFI meeting, but my understanding is that JH gave assurances that other alternatives to listing the Fund would be offered. By the time it became apparant that this was not going to happen, it left very little time for anyone to try and organise any kind of strategy - (they're very clever). It's a lot to expect of individual people (who are only ordinary average people like you and me) to come up with a glossy, impressive alternative to present to 10,400 other investors in a matter of weeks.
I also attended all the meetings at GC, and personally I came away feeling sick in my stomach. To me it was all PR and show with no substance. Unfortunately, because the 2008 Annual Report came out so late (they're very clever), it didn't leave much time for investors to analyse factual information and compare it with WC's promises. If you really study the financial figures you will see that the projections and expectations that WC promoted cannot happen.

Also, I'm sorry but I think that JH making a committment to Unit Holders on 15th Oct to pay a distribution by the end of the month, and then not coming through with it, shows that she blatantly lied. She would have known on the 15th Oct. that there were extreme doubts about being able to make the payment and she should have been honest. In my books to highlight dishonesty is not knocking.

There are too many contradictory statements being made by JH, how can people have faith after analysing facts and trying to wade their way through contradictions and disappointments ?

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That is where we will have to agree to differ Burnt. I can quite believe that Wellington were assure that settlement on the three mortgages would be achieved in time to pay the distributions. An awful lot happened in the money markets during the two weeks between her assurance and the due date.

Put it another way, if you had promised someone payment of a bill based on your expected receipt of distribution from the PIF - would that mean that you "blatantly lied"?

I don't believe that most investors needed a "glossy impressive alternative". If something that was understandable and tangible had been put forward rather than just "an orderly liquidation", then maybe there would have been room for discussion. My experience of "orderly liquidation" usually means that the only people who get anything back are the ATO and the receivers.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

JohnH said:

I don't believe that most investors needed a "glossy impressive alternative". If something that was understandable and tangible had been put forward rather than just "an orderly liquidation", then maybe there would have been room for discussion. My experience of "orderly liquidation" usually means that the only people who get anything back are the ATO and the receivers.

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Unfortunately, that is what the majority of liquidations, orderly or otherwise, end up being from my previous experiences in the business world. How can anyone argue with this, and that the FACT that there was indeed NO tangible alternative, meant people voted with WC.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Translated for those with a sense of humour, I repeat if you do not possess a sense of humour do not read:::::Quote PIFI "PIFI Initiative Incorporated will continue to focus its energies on pursuing its objects of promoting and protecting the interests of members of the Premium Income Fund.
Nothing has changed in our focus or our purpose of achieving the most favourable outcome for unit holders."::::::: Unfortunately for unit holders our greatest achievement to date was to get ASIC involved in postponing the general meeting scheduled for Sept 18 2008. The exact cost of this intervention to unit holders is not currently available but we are endeavouring to find out so that the PIFI may reimburse the Fund for this error. Our extreme apologies in regard to this matter:::::
Quote "We will continue to question and investigate all activities that do not appear to be in unit holders' best interests. We will go on to pursue whatever avenues of action are available, based on sound advice and opinion, to achieve the most favourable outcome possible"::::::If this includes rubbishing the AG at every opportunity, we apologise for this also, but hey, they do the same to us. So, we will decide what is best for ALL unitholders and take appropriate action where WE think neccesary, even if the majority of you think otherwise:::::::
Quote" PIFI is continuing to receive memberships and we encourage more PIF unit holders to join our association to be able to obtain further legal opinion and advice to ensure that we are properly informed of what has happened in the past and what is happening to our Fund now"::::::: Our coffers are looking a tad empty, so if you have fat wallets and long tongues PIFI NEED YOU!!!! ( best stamp lickers for our post outs MAY receive a subscription discount)::::::
Quote"So, if you are sick of being misled and confused, or feel bullied or intimidated for having doubts and uncertainties of what is happening and what has happened, being made to feel that you have no right to question anything;
If you are prepared to join in and be pro-active in asserting your rights
- then please get in contact with us.":::::: Yes, we know we are to blame for most of that confusion, intimidation and bullying, but hey, it is not our intention to mislead you as well, its just we all hate JH and will use WHATEVER it takes to rid our fund of this lying cheating individual who insists on wearing that RED jacket. Who does she think she is? Santa? So come one and all, JOIN UP JOIN UP, we need you to swell our ranks(and our bank balance). :jump:Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

JohnH said:

That is where we will have to agree to differ Burnt. I can quite believe that Wellington were assure that settlement on the three mortgages would be achieved in time to pay the distributions. An awful lot happened in the money markets during the two weeks between her assurance and the due date.

Put it another way, if you had promised someone payment of a bill based on your expected receipt of distribution from the PIF - would that mean that you "blatantly lied"?

I don't believe that most investors needed a "glossy impressive alternative". If something that was understandable and tangible had been put forward rather than just "an orderly liquidation", then maybe there would have been room for discussion. My experience of "orderly liquidation" usually means that the only people who get anything back are the ATO and the receivers.

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John If JH intended to make the payment on Oct 31 There would have to be an X div day on Oct 16 or Oct 17 Well we all know there was never one So there for there was never going to be a parment / Dane //

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Bond Street Custodians Limited – Federal Court Proceedings
As reported in our Investor Update of 28 October 2008, Bond Street Custodians Limited filed a claim against
Wellington Investment Management Limited as responsible entity of the Wholesale Premium Income Fund
on 16 October 2008 in relation to a redemption request for 16.254 million units in the Wholesale Premium
Income Fund which was lodged on 21 January 2008. This was shortly prior to the suspension of
redemptions.
Wellington appeared in the Federal Court in Sydney on Friday 14 November 2008 before Registrar Hedge.
At this hearing, orders were made by consent that:
the proceedings continue on the pleadings;
Wellington file and serve its defence by no later than 5 December 2008; and
the matter be listed for a further directions hearing on 16 December 2008.
Wellington intends to vigorously defend the claim on behalf of all Unitholders.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I wonder when Seamisty will be too embarrassed to post her WC propaganda on this Forum.

Blind faith may suit religious believers but has no place here where facts - not empty promises - are the currency.

To vote to change the Constitution to cease further redemptions in favour of listing on the NSX is just an example. I sympathise with those poor people who have no alternative but to accept a pittance for their units to raise a little cash.

COME TO THINK OF IT - SOONER OR LATER THAT IS ALL OF US!

I wonder who the buyer is?

Seamisty perhaps?

And to think some people blame PIFI members for derailing the Fund!

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dexter said:

I wonder when Seamisty will be too embarrassed to post her WC propaganda on this Forum.

Blind faith may suit religious believers but has no place here where facts - not empty promises - are the currency.

To vote to change the Constitution to cease further redemptions in favour of listing on the NSX is just an example. I sympathise with those poor people who have no alternative but to accept a pittance for their units to raise a little cash.

COME TO THINK OF IT - SOONER OR LATER THAT IS ALL OF US!

I wonder who the buyer is?

Seamisty perhaps?

And to think some people blame PIFI members for derailing the Fund!

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Dexter this train was derailed long before WC became involved. I also feel sorry for those forced to sell, same as I feel sorry for the millions of other people who are feeling the effects of this recession, losing jobs and barely making ends meet. Everyone will be affected, not just our fund. Ask anyone how their super is faring? But what some of you can't seem to grasp, is that alternatives are simply not there which will result in a better outcome. Do you think your little band of not so merry men and woman are the only investors that have not looked for better alternatives? Drawing negative attention day in day out will not improve the performance of this fund, same as being positive probably won't make a scrap of difference. If you want to drag your sorry butts around wallowing in self pity, go for it. The same as if I want to stay positive and support WC that is my right also. I have just as much right to post my 'propaganda' as anyone else and it will take a lot to embarrass me, so either don't read my posts or lighten up. Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dexter said:

Good news! As no one has taken up my offer of 20c/unit cash in hand we can only presume that we have 100% vote against liquidation. Let hope this applies across the board.

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Perhaps it is you buying Dexter now the units are in your price bracket?::grinsking I have enough for the time being thanks.Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Shouldn't we be combining our energies to discover more information from WC? I want to know whether to expect a distribution by the end of December. WC are obviously held back by protocols when it comes to disclosing information. However,t I do believe that they need to be more communicative. At this rate. we could be waiting another twelve months before we see a cent!

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

selciper said:

Shouldn't we be combining our energies to discover more information from WC? I want to know whether to expect a distribution by the end of December. WC are obviously held back by protocols when it comes to disclosing information. However,t I do believe that they need to be more communicative. At this rate. we could be waiting another twelve months before we see a cent!

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I agree Selciper and I did contact WC in regard to a regular update as did Breaker. Any information which can be construed as price sensitive cannot be divulged at all until it has been announced on the NSX so WC are reluctant to release any info that is not of a generic nature and that can be obtained by calling the hotline which does not seem to be so choked up lately as I have gotten through the last two times I have called. I was told that there is not a lot to report as even though the wheels are in motion on certain issues, these can be slow long drawn out affairs but not to discount the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes to achieve the best outcomes for the fund. I am reluctant to post this type of information as I often get howled down as being a puppet for WC or whatever. However if more unit holders were to suggest a monthly update from JH no matter how incidental or unimportant the news is, perhaps she will realise this is an important issue in relation to the transparency we were promised. Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

seamisty said:

I agree Selciper and I did contact WC in regard to a regular update as did Breaker. Any information which can be construed as price sensitive cannot be divulged at all until it has been announced on the NSX so WC are reluctant to release any info that is not of a generic nature and that can be obtained by calling the hotline which does not seem to be so choked up lately as I have gotten through the last two times I have called. I was told that there is not a lot to report as even though the wheels are in motion on certain issues, these can be slow long drawn out affairs but not to discount the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes to achieve the best outcomes for the fund. I am reluctant to post this type of information as I often get howled down as being a puppet for WC or whatever. However if more unit holders were to suggest a monthly update from JH no matter how incidental or unimportant the news is, perhaps she will realise this is an important issue in relation to the transparency we were promised. Seamisty

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Dear Seamisty

I apologise for my latest comments regarding your postings, as I now realise you are a new age sensitive person.

I trust you are reimbursed for all your expenses in regards to your direct communication with WC.

Please keep us further informed on WC news.

Regards


Splitpin

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

SPLITPIN said:

Dear Seamisty

I apologise for my latest comments regarding your postings, as I now realise you are a new age sensitive person.

I trust you are reimbursed for all your expenses in regards to your direct communication with WC.

Please keep us further informed on WC news.

Regards


Splitpin

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You mean a 'SNAG' SPLITPIN? Thats a 'Sensitive New Age Guy', or did you mean a 'SNAP'? Whatever, just another name to add to my growing repetoire. I shall inform WC that I will be fowarding an itemised account so it can be added to and deducted from administration expenses. I should qualify to be reimbursed for PR expenses yes? All unit holders in agreeance to support SPLITPINS proposal please vote now, LOL!!! Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

seamisty said:

..... I shall inform WC that I will be fowarding an itemised account so it can be added to and deducted from administration expenses. I should qualify to be reimbursed for PR expenses yes? Seamisty

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Dear Seamisty

I don't recall your accounts being forecast in the budgets as previously discussed on the forum or accounts presented by WC.

Is it a considerable expense.

Regards


Splitpin

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

SPLITPIN, I was just looking at the amount of hours I have logged up in e-mails, phone calls and posts, not to mention the odd personal visit to unit holders on behalf of the PIF and it is quite a substantial amount and could impact on the unit value of the Fund. What do you think would be a fair hourly rate to charge? I make approximately $90.00 per hour hairdressing and cop far less insults and abuse? Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

seamisty said:

SPLITPIN, I was just looking at the amount of hours I have logged up in e-mails, phone calls and posts, not to mention the odd personal visit to unit holders on behalf of the PIF and it is quite a substantial amount and could impact on the unit value of the Fund. What do you think would be a fair hourly rate to charge? I make approximately $90.00 per hour hairdressing and cop far less insults and abuse? Seamisty

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Dear Seamisty

Please go back and read page 1 of the forum and your posting #20.

Page 1 was probably the best page on this forum, precise / accurate and not much has changed since.

You don't have to cop the insults and abuse - it is entirely up to you.

Regards


Splitpin

Re: Octaviar MFS Premuim Income Fund PIF

seamisty said:

breaker1 hi, I am a PIF holder and tried to e-mail you but it bounced.I spoke with ASIC yesterday and am not confident we will get much help in the near future there. I live in WA so I have to do everything by phone or e-mail which I don't mind, it is just very time consuming. I have also lodged a written letter of complaint with the the ASX. A few of us had funds accepted after Dec31st 2007 and our argument is that MFS was already in default with the RBOS at this stage but did not disclose it to investors. We have asked ASIC to make a ruling on the failure to disclose angle but I won't hold my breath waiting on action from them. I have tried contacting Jenny Hutson and Guy Hutchings. I do not like dealing with anyone at OCV anymore. I am sick of their BS. I agree something needs to be done. Regards Seamisty

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I agree SPLITPIN, ASIC have only intervened once that I am aware of (to our detriment), all my complaints are still lodged with them and lots more since to other avenues, and nothing has changed. The people responsible for our current situation have not been dealt with, the only difference is the blame appears to have been shifted. Besides who else are you going to pay out apart from me?

Seamisty