Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

Duped · 20 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DoraNBoots said:
Is anyone able to explain why WC said there were only 670,763,860 units in the PIF in the NSX Listing Application on 2 June? http://www.nsxa.com.au/ftp/news/021720762.PDF

Dora. The NSX listing application was for 4 classes of units. I'm guessing these are for the 6, 9, 12 and 24 month terms. SPLITPIN's post #2968 noted that there were 3 'at call' holdings. Perhaps this is a 5th class of units; which adds up to the difference of 84,383,192.

But I ask myself why? Why would the holders of the 84,383,192 units not want or perhaps not 'need' the liquidity? Was there a plan to give them alternative liquidity? (That smells like preferential treatment to me) The only thing I can think of is there are more of the 'interesting' holdings like the 60M units held between Jun and Sep 2007 by MFS Administration Pty Ltd - holdings that perhaps were going to be anulled

I also speculate that some unit holders had more than one holding/parcel. I'd like to know how many 'unique' unit holders there are? And how many units are still held by OCV related entities (something that WC is probably not required to report anymore)? The holding by Michael King Suparannuation certainly wasn't reported in the 2008 Annual Report.

DoraNBoots · 20 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Duped said:
Dora. The NSX listing application was for 4 classes of units. I'm guessing these are for the 6, 9, 12 and 24 month terms. SPLITPIN's post #2968 noted that there were 3 'at call' holdings. Perhaps this is a 5th class of units; which adds up to the difference of 84,383,192.

But I ask myself why? Why would the holders of the 84,383,192 units not want or perhaps not 'need' the liquidity? Was there a plan to give them alternative liquidity? (That smells like preferential treatment to me) The only thing I can think of is there are more of the 'interesting' holdings like the 60M units held between Jun and Sep 2007 by MFS Administration Pty Ltd - holdings that perhaps were going to be anulled

I also speculate that some unit holders had more than one holding/parcel. I'd like to know how many 'unique' unit holders there are? And how many units are still held by OCV related entities (something that WC is probably not required to report anymore)? The holding by Michael King Suparannuation certainly wasn't reported in the 2008 Annual Report.

Thanks Duped, I was hoping you would reply.
The Top20 shows that there are no big unit holders that could make up this 84 mill units. If the 81 mill from the WPIF was to be included in the listing (as the doc states) then you have to assume there was a plan to remove 84 mill units from the rest of the fund somewhere but the next biggest amount is only 4 mill units. The Top20 minus the WPIF is still only 39 mill units.

I'd say MK Super is no longer considered a related party unit holder. I think JH has said the $60 mill from OCV was removed from the fund before the freeze. If there is any doubt about that then it would have to be represented in the WPIF amount but again it looks like this amount was to be included in the listing.

I have to say I do like the disclosure that the NSX provides (some see it as a privacy issue), as any changes to the Top20 going forward will be transparent.

breaker1 · 20 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

After verbal discussions with the Wellington office today, they advise PIF members will still receive the promised 1.5 cents payments in on 31 October, which could be a few days late because of the postponed EGM vote of 15 October and the other 1.5 cent distribution should be paid 24 December all things going well with the fund. I have requested clarification of future payments from Wellington in writing and will pass on the details when received.

Although there are no guarantees (what fund can give guarantees particularily in this economic environment) - I was advised by WC that the idea is to try and continue these payments each quarter. It has to do with the judge/magistrate advising WC that it "would not be wise" to put guarantees in writing. However, I am not happy with this verbal alone and have requested WC explain the NSX memorandum and PIF memorandum anomalies in writing on behalf of the PIF AG members. These memorandums contradict one another. They may have some thing to do with the Supreme court of QLD advice or even tax issues, but clarification is in order.

Results of the final October vote are as follows:
Resolution 1 - Change of Constitution: For - 421,552,961 units Against - 32,190,268 units
Resolution 2 - Buyback offer: For - 412,435,305 units Against - 40,342,225 units
Resolution 3 - Change in Responsible
Entity (Manager): For - 387,083,658 units Against - 67,678,820 units

For full details see: http://www.newpif.com.au/publications/PIFResultsOfMeeting.PDF

DoraNBoots · 20 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

breaker1 said:
...
I was advised by WC that the idea is to try and continue these payments each quarter. It has to do with the judge/magistrate advising WC that it "would not be wise" to put guarantees in writing. However, I am not happy with this verbal alone and have requested WC explain the NSX memorandum and PIF memorandum anomalies in writing on behalf of the PIF AG members. These memorandums contradict one another. They may have some thing to do with the Supreme court of QLD advice or even tax issues, but clarification is in order.
...

Please note the NSX memorandum and the PIF EM are both dated 18 August 2008 before the Supreme court case.

danger danger · 20 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I have it in writing via an email from a WC senior staffer who I won't mention that 1.5 cents per quarter is the target rate. I know this is totally different from an official WC memo being signed by JH herself and being available to all and sundry, but reality is that NOONE can guarantee a return in this type of fund currently. Only a bank term deposit can do this, and let's face it we are way from being a healthy and attractive fund for all to invest at the moment.

I just wish people would now give JH a go, she has been voted in and needs time. Would you guarantee anything in writing with what MFS did to it, the current downturn and builders defaulting left right and centre? We have to be realistic and hope things turn in our favour. I don't think JH wants to be in front of unitholders next year where NO returns came about, yet she took fees, walking sticks would be flung from all directions of the room.

seamisty · 20 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

"walking sticks would be flung from all directions of the room"!!!! LOL, at least someone has a sense of humour!!!!!I also spoke with WC this morning and contrary to the doom and gloomers, distributions are on track at this point in time. I notice now at some of the banks any half decent interest rate being offered is around the 4-6 month term and long term outlook (12-18months) is 4.5%. Not very encouraging for self funded retirees. Seamisty

seamisty · 20 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I just received this from WC, it may clarify a few issues::REMIUM INCOME FUND
I refer to your telephone conversation with the Wellington Hotline earlier today, and respond to
your queries as follows:
Distribution per unit
The Annual Report for the financial year ended 30 June 2007 provides at page 3 that a distribution of
4.9 cents per unit was paid to unitholders in the Premium Income Fund. This distribution is an average over
the entirety of units in the Premium Income Fund for the period I July 2007 to 30 June 2008.
During that period each unit was invested for a different investment period and there was movement in the
number of units because of the nature of the Fund as a redemption fund. Not all unitholders would have
received 4.9 cents per unit held in the Premium Income Fund for the period.Number of units in the Fund
As at 3 0 June 2008 there were a total of 7 55,747 ,052 units on issue. During the fmancial year the Fund
issued 115,043,949 units while 239,988,049 units were redeemed. This total number of units includes the
units invested by the Wholesale Premium Income Fund in the Premium Income Fund.
Cash payments
Wellington has resolved to make cash payments totalling 3 cents per unit by December 2008 to all
unitholders. Wellington plans to make quarterly payments after that date. However, as stated in our
Corrective Notice dated 18 September 2008, unitholders should be aware that whether such quarterly
payments are made, and the amount in which they are made, will depend entirely upon the financial
circumstances of the Premium Income Fund at that time.::: Cheers, Seamisty

breaker1 · 20 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

My info from a senior WC staffer today as regards Cash Payments

"As stated in the Corrective Notice dated 18 September 2008, Wellington has resolved to make cash payments totalling 3 cents per unit by 24 December 2008 to unitholders in the Premium Income Fund. Wellington plans to make quarterly payments after that date. However, unitholders should be aware that whether such quarterly payments are made, and the amount in which they are made, will depend entirely upon the financial circumstances of the Premium Income Fund at that time"

I would agree Seamisty that everywhere interests rates are biting the dust and many funds are failing (e.g., City Pacific) and its only going to get worse because of the meltdown, but for the 45% we have left in the fund, we are getting the equivalent of 13% interest, how long the fund can pay this I don't know, WC aims to continue paying it, but with the bonus of 55% less deeming from Centrelink & of course less tax.

I have asked for a further confirming statement to the above from WC.

SPLITPIN · 20 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dear PIF Members

Thank you all of you for your recent comments and I note my single home owner pensioner friend down the road indicates some income numbers with a $300,000 PIF investment and impacts.

1. Prior To Redemption Freezing $ 616-00 per week.

2. With Redemption Freezing $184-86 per week.

3. Current Situation With $-45 Unit Holding Value $ 281-05 per week

So my friend has lost $335 per week in income and maybe $255,000 in assets and at this stage nearly one year later nobody can tell my friend where the missing PIF unit money went.

My friend thinks all will be dead, buried and swept under the carpet with him as time marches on and all will be forgotten and forgiven.

What a national disgrace and shame on self interest PIF members.

Regards

Splitpin

DoraNBoots · 20 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

breaker1 said:
My info from a senior WC staffer today as regards Cash Payments

"As stated in the Corrective Notice dated 18 September 2008, Wellington has resolved to make cash payments totalling 3 cents per unit by 24 December 2008 to unitholders in the Premium Income Fund. Wellington plans to make quarterly payments after that date. However, unitholders should be aware that whether such quarterly payments are made, and the amount in which they are made, will depend entirely upon the financial circumstances of the Premium Income Fund at that time"

I would agree Seamisty that everywhere interests rates are biting the dust and many funds are failing (e.g., City Pacific) and its only going to get worse because of the meltdown, but for the 45% we have left in the fund, we are getting the equivalent of 13% interest, how long the fund can pay this I don't know, WC aims to continue paying it, but with the bonus of 55% less deeming from Centrelink & of course less tax.

I have asked for a further confirming statement to the above from WC.

Breaker1, Thanks for this information but I don't know how can you say "we are getting the equivalent of 13% interest"
The information you received from WC today in no way indicates there will be a 13% return. The statements WC have made today say they would like to make quarterly payments but they don't know if that is possible.

seamisty · 20 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

SPLITPIN said:
Dear PIF Members

Thank you all of you for your recent comments and I note my single home owner pensioner friend down the road indicates some income numbers with a $300,000 PIF investment and impacts.

1. Prior To Redemption Freezing $ 616-00 per week.

2. With Redemption Freezing $184-86 per week.

3. Current Situation With $-45 Unit Holding Value $ 281-05 per week

So my friend has lost $335 per week in income and maybe $255,000 in assets and at this stage nearly one year later nobody can tell my friend where the missing PIF unit money went.

My friend thinks all will be dead, buried and swept under the carpet with him as time marches on and all will be forgotten and forgiven.

What a national disgrace and shame on self interest PIF members.

Regards

Splitpin

As a investor yourself Splitpin what do you suggest we do in addition to all of our combined phone complaints/letters/personal appointments/e-mails etc to numerous so called regulatory bodies and consumer watchdogs regarding the conduct of the former MFS board?Do you not have the same concerns as your 'friend'? I didn't realise pensioners could earn that much. My mum is an aged pensioner and gets nothing like that amount. Seamisty

breaker1 · 21 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DoraNBoots said:
Breaker1, Thanks for this information but I don't know how can you say "we are getting the equivalent of 13% interest"
The information you received from WC today in no way indicates there will be a 13% return. The statements WC have made today say they would like to make quarterly payments but they don't know if that is possible.

I appreciate your concerns Dora as there are NO guarantees, but as said that is JH's AIM to pay the 1.5c per mth > 4 quarters X 1.5c = 6c p.a and that is equvalent to 13% interest on the 45c in the $ we have left. Six of one half a dozen of the other. But I get your point, I appreciate this is an aim or a target and we all hope JH can pull it off over the next few years. The point I was making is that the comments made to the NSX do NOT indicate any official PIF cut off point for the 1.5c quarterly distributions to end now or in the near future. I believe many investors will be hit hard and carry huge losses over the next year or so. Our money did not disappear, it is being transferred into the pockets of the ultra rich elite.

I have studied this financial meltdown and saw it coming for the last 4-5 months, thats why I encouraged everyone I knew to put their money into cash and even that is not safe now. I perceive that this latest world/USA financial problem is only the first of another possible three to four phases yet to come.

simgrund · 21 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

danger danger said:
I have it in writing via an email from a WC senior staffer who I won't mention that 1.5 cents per quarter is the target rate...............................

DANGER DANGER
Would it be possible for you to post this E-mail here for us? It appears
to be a welcome evidence in writing from WC of moves forward.
Thanks

And to PIF AG: RE article in Australian 14 Oct 08 by Susannah Moran
"KPMG sued for $200m by ASIC over Westpoint" (to be heard on 7/11)

We must lobby hard to have ASIC give us the same rights of recognition
of PIF being pilfered not just by "negligence" but by outright robbery by MFS directors.
It is their ill gotten assets which ASIC's action could return to the Fund.
Can Action Group initiate these approaches?
Can PIF Initiative switch their energies towards this goal and with such a united front demonstrate we can have an impact on our own destiny?

Regards

RickH · 21 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

seamisty said:
As a investor yourself Splitpin what do you suggest we do in addition to all of our combined phone complaints/letters/personal appointments/e-mails etc to numerous so called regulatory bodies and consumer watchdogs regarding the conduct of the former MFS board?Do you not have the same concerns as your 'friend'? I didn't realise pensioners could earn that much. My mum is an aged pensioner and gets nothing like that amount. Seamisty

Hi Seamisty,

AGE PENSION TESTS:
House contents say $3-5,000 (Garage sale prices).
Car – car yard cash quick sale price (wholesale).
Financial/Investment assets

TOTAL ASSETS TEST:
Single Home owner $171,750 (Full Pension) with a part pension up to $550,500.
Couple Home owner $243,500 (Full Pension) with a part pension up to $873,500.
Single Non H/owner $296,250 (Full Pension) with a part pension up to $675,000.
Couple Home owner $368,000 (Full Pension) with a part pension up to $998,000.

NOTE: Pension reduces by $1.50 pfn for each $1,000 of assets above the full pension limit.

TOTAL INCOME TEST:
Single $138.00 (Full Pension) with a part pension up to $1,557.75.
Couple $240.00 (Full Pension) with a part pension up to $2,602.00.

NOTE: Pension reduces by 40 cents for single and 20 cents for couples above the full pension limit.

PLEASE REFER TO #2984 for possibly the only way that Centrelink can value PIF units since listing on the NSX.
Regards,
RickH:couch

simgrund · 21 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

danger danger said:
I have it in writing via an email from a WC senior staffer who I won't mention that 1.5 cents per quarter is the target rate...............................

DANGER DANGER
Would it be possible for you to post this E-mail here for us? It appears
to be a welcome evidence in writing from WC of moves forward.
Thanks

And to PIF AG: RE article in Australian 14 Oct 08 by Susannah Moran
"KPMG sued for $200m by ASIC over Westpoint" (to be heard on 7/11)

We must lobby hard to have ASIC give us the same rights of recognition
of PIF being pilfered not just by "negligence" but by outright robbery by MFS directors.
It is their ill gotten assets which ASIC's action could return to the Fund.
Can Action Group initiate these approaches?
Can PIF Initiative switch their energies towards this goal and with such a united front demonstrate we can have an impact on our own destiny?

Regards

danger danger · 21 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Xxxxxx,

Initial receipt of proxies indicates the three resolutions will all be
approved.

4 x 1.5 cents in 2009 will be a target rate.

Xxxxxxxx

[Message delivered by NotifyLink]

----------Original Message----------

From: >
Sent: Wed, August 27, 2008 9:52 AM
To:
Subject: RE: Vote

Hi Xxxxxxx,

One more question. Will $0.06 distribution per year (paid quarterly) be
a new target rate or more of a hopeful guideline?

Thanks again

seamisty · 21 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

RickH said:
Hi Seamisty,

AGE PENSION TESTS:
House contents say $3-5,000 (Garage sale prices).
Car – car yard cash quick sale price (wholesale).
Financial/Investment assets

TOTAL ASSETS TEST:
Single Home owner $171,750 (Full Pension) with a part pension up to $550,500.
Couple Home owner $243,500 (Full Pension) with a part pension up to $873,500.
Single Non H/owner $296,250 (Full Pension) with a part pension up to $675,000.
Couple Home owner $368,000 (Full Pension) with a part pension up to $998,000.

NOTE: Pension reduces by $1.50 pfn for each $1,000 of assets above the full pension limit.

TOTAL INCOME TEST:
Single $138.00 (Full Pension) with a part pension up to $1,557.75.
Couple $240.00 (Full Pension) with a part pension up to $2,602.00.

NOTE: Pension reduces by 40 cents for single and 20 cents for couples above the full pension limit.

PLEASE REFER TO #2984 for possibly the only way that Centrelink can value PIF units since listing on the NSX.
Regards,
RickH:couch

Thanks RickH, will re do the maths for her.Damn, she was giving me some WES shares every year because they were interfering with her pension. Now they have dropped so much in value she will probablly keep them herself LOL!!!!Seamisty

Jadel · 21 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

simgrund said:
DANGER DANGER
Would it be possible for you to post this E-mail here for us? It appears
to be a welcome evidence in writing from WC of moves forward.
Thanks

And to PIF AG: RE article in Australian 14 Oct 08 by Susannah Moran
"KPMG sued for $200m by ASIC over Westpoint" (to be heard on 7/11)

We must lobby hard to have ASIC give us the same rights of recognition
of PIF being pilfered not just by "negligence" but by outright Roby by MFS directors.
It is their ill gotten assets which ASIC's action could return to the Fund.
Can Action Group initiate these approaches?
Can PIF Initiative switch their energies towards this goal and with such a united front demonstrate we can have an impact on our own destiny?

Regards

Simgrund

The PIFI have been spending many hours of dedicated research and effort into this matter

We are fortunate to have some very talented people who have been prepared to make this effort entirely at their own cost and time .

All PIFI members and supporters well be receiving details shortly

I think the best approach with ASIC is for every investor to take on the responsibility of keeping the pressure on ASIC.

If you have a compliant you can continue to add more information via email as it becomes available.

danger danger · 21 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Well if PIFI are now concentrating on trying to recover funds via litigation and bring those perpetrators to justice, I feel they may gain some support. If this is the case I look forward to receiving some literature, hopefully it is now accepted that the running of the fund is now WC and we can move on.

CableGuy · 21 October 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

danger danger said:
SNIP... hopefully it is now accepted that the running of the fund is now WC and we can move on.

Wellington have been the RE of the PIF since May. If an action group is not constantly monitoring the RE then they are useless.

-----
"Come back here, so that I may brain thee!"

Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

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