Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

Burnt · 7 September 2008

Re: PIFI

As far as I am aware, PIFI is not a group restricted to Qld. They don't call themselves PIFI Qld !!! I am also of the understanding that they have invited ALL Unit holders throughout Aust. to participate in the group. Also, they don't appear to be critising JH personally.

PIFInitiative@gmail.com

As far as the past actions of MFS go, if investors had of been made aware of what was going on with the Fund, i.e. full disclosure at the time it was happening, perhaps investors would have had the chance to exercise their rights under the constitution. If you are not given all the facts at the appropriate time, it is hard to act effectively to protect your interests, e.g. what is happening right now.

It is good to hear that the funds WC are currently operating are performing well. Have the assets of these funds been plundered ? Are these funds listed on the NSX ? I'm sure that JH has full access to her money when she wants to redeem it. Why shouldn't we have this too ?

Maverick2802 · 7 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I can't wait to get my PIFI information that was sent to the supposed top 2700 investors last Friday.

If it gives me the name of a suitable RE that has done due diligence of our fund and will give us a 3c payment before Christmas and then payment every quarter after that while still maintaining rights as per the MFS constitution my fear that WC has instilled in me may dissipate.

I am sure this newly created association of 30 will do enough to sway the minds for the remaining top 2700 investors with 7 figure dollar values at stake to go with a no vote within a week.

I have just watched the "300" DVD and I am psyched. It's not a matter of the quantity of troops. It's all about your strategy to combat an army with extraordinarily larger numbers than your own. So I am sure the PIFI stategy will be nothing short of brilliant. Just say no, we will work the rest out later!

Jadel · 7 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Maverick

I did not watch the DVD but i bet JH did not put in the bit where the majority of investors pleaded with her not to be listed on the NSX

But keep trying mate you would make a good advertising executive

Maverick2802 · 7 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

If the anti-NSX stance is the strategy PIFI will be pushing the top 2700 investors, I feel you will be in a bit of a dilemma.

The NSX is the least of the problems for the top tier investors, they have the most cash. They will have the highest levels of financial resilience. They would probably welcome the NSX in the hope that your gloomy 10-20c trading prediction, to buy up and make up possible loses. Not that I feel there will be many selling at these levels, that is just scare mongering or wishful thinking depending on what side of the fence you are at.

Oh dear, I think you have sent 2700 letters to the wrong end of town. Get that printer out and start lickin' them stamps. If you start now and work through the night it may just reach the right people that you should be targetting by vote day. Though I fear it may a tad late..maybe just crack a new case of the red stuff and enjoy father's day. Happy father's day!!!

Burnt · 7 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

TO THE MODERATORS,

It's a shame that some people have to resort to childish critisisms and meaningless dribble to try to discourage well meaning and hard working people who are doing their best to achieve the fairest and most beneficial outcome for everyone.

I would hope that the moderators of this thread would put a stop to people whose only posts on this thread are vicious and childish attacks. They offer no facts or substantiated information - only verbal abuse.

I have been subjected to very personal critisism in the past and would like to see it stopped before they stoop to this level again.
Please ban them from submitting such uninformative and abusive rubbish.

Thank you

like2ski · 7 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Burnt said:
TO THE MODERATORS,

It's a shame that some people have to resort to childish critisisms and meaningless dribble to try to discourage well meaning and hard working people who are doing their best to achieve the fairest and most beneficial outcome for everyone.

I would hope that the moderators of this thread would put a stop to people whose only posts on this thread are vicious and childish attacks. They offer no facts or substantiated information - only verbal abuse.

I have been subjected to very personal critisism in the past and would like to see it stopped before they stoop to this level again.
Please ban them from submitting such uninformative and abusive rubbish.

Thank you

TO THE MODERATORS
I entirely agree with Burnt and urge you to ban the uninformative, abusive rubbish & dribble

Maverick2802 · 7 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

If you delete all the uninformative posts based on only speculation, theory, dislike of WC, opinion, scaremongering and dribble. There would be very few posts left indeed.

We are all investors that have been caught up in this mess created by others who we trusted with our hard earned money.

It now comes down to those that wish to move forward with an RE that has an existing business dealing with funds under management or to liquidate the fund.

How many people here have been involved in a liquidation of a company where the investors or creditors walk away with happy memories? That is a fact. The losses are heart wrenchingly real, I have seen a few in my time, and they devastate the lives of many for the rest of their lives.

I would hate for this to happen to PIF investors, especially since the majority are elderly and will not have a chance to make it back via hard work.

Just because I and many others come on a public forum and state we will vote yes to WC, doesn't mean we have anything against the no voters, we just don't agree with you and feel just as passionate for our cause and our money as you do.

I apologise to those who I might have offended in past posts, let's be adults and move on. Just know that not all posts can be fact as all the facts that at least we know have come out. This is a place of discussion of what may happen given certain circumstances..that's what internet forums are all about and what has made this thread so colorful.

like2ski · 7 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Maverick2802 said:
If the anti-NSX stance is the strategy PIFI will be pushing the top 2700 investors, I feel you will be in a bit of a dilemma.

The NSX is the least of the problems for the top tier investors, they have the most cash. They will have the highest levels of financial resilience. They would probably welcome the NSX in the hope that your gloomy 10-20c trading prediction, to buy up and make up possible loses. Not that I feel there will be many selling at these levels, that is just scare mongering or wishful thinking depending on what side of the fence you are at.

Oh dear, I think you have sent 2700 letters to the wrong end of town. Get that printer out and start lickin' them stamps. If you start now and work through the night it may just reach the right people that you should be targetting by vote day. Though I fear it may a tad late..maybe just crack a new case of the red stuff and enjoy father's day. Happy father's day!!!

Maverick2802,
I have recently joined this forum and note with interest your endless bagging of the recently formed PIFI.
Can you please, at least, explain your reasons for such behavior? is there some history/background between you and these people? are you behaving like a sore looser? are you just a spoiler?
In the absence of a better alternative on offer can you please enlighten us mere investors as to your far superior and more effective solution to resolve the problems?? In some of your posts you have been boringly repeating that the PIFI should propose the name of an alternative RE.
For all I know they may not wish to change the RE or may already have one!!, but in any case as they have recently formed and would have a lot on their plate right now. If you are available why don't you offer to help instead of bagging them with your meaningless dribble.
You and other holders had plenty of time and opportunity to create/organize/structure something far better for all investors Australia wide by getting off your backsides months earlier. YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE IT!!!

Burnt · 7 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Posters on this forum who are supportive of a NNN vote have mostly backed up their view with facts - facts that exist within the Funds own Constitution as well as the Corporations Act. If the NNN vote succeeds, it does not mean that the Fund will be forced into liquidation - this is a fact. Unit holders will be entitled to hold a meeting to vote on other proposed resolutions, one of which could be liquidation, which I'm sure would get an overwhelming NO vote.

It is also a fact (under Corporations Act) that the RE cannot walk away from the Fund if they don't get the outcome that suits them. It is a fact - no one at this stage has to have another RE waiting in the wings before we act to obtain other alternatives.

No one is for liquidation. We have just stated the facts that Wellington has only provided very limited options, neither of which is acceptable to a lot of unit holders. This is a fact. We want other options and are willing to fight for them.

Of course we all have our own opinions and views, and discussion and debate based on fact is the purpose of this thread. I have not yet seen one example of No supporters personally attacking or abusing anyone with opposing views. There is no need to resort to this when you have facts, logic and a sense of fairness on your side.

Maverick2802 · 7 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

like2ski said:
Maverick2802,
I have recently joined this forum and note with interest your endless bagging of the recently formed PIFI.
Can you please, at least, explain your reasons for such behavior? is there some history/background between you and these people? are you behaving like a sore looser? are you just a spoiler?
In the absence of a better alternative on offer can you please enlighten us mere investors as to your far superior and more effective solution to resolve the problems?? In some of your posts you have been boringly repeating that the PIFI should propose the name of an alternative RE.
For all I know they may not wish to change the RE or may already have one!!, but in any case as they have recently formed and would have a lot on their plate right now. If you are available why don't you offer to help instead of bagging them with your meaningless dribble.
You and other holders had plenty of time and opportunity to create/organize/structure something far better for all investors Australia wide by getting off your backsides months earlier. YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE IT!!!

Sorry, I and many other investors on this forum don't believe that the liquidation of this fund is the way to go. If my posts are boring because I believe that PIFI is a wreckless minority organisation and wish to protect my hard earned unit holding from people who wish to liquidate, then don't read them.

I take offence to you calling my opinion as dribble because it does not match your own opinion. The fact is that JH has categorically stated she is not interested in liquidating this fund according to PIFI requests. Where does that leave us with NO RE to manage it. So I, and many others feel that no RE is of paramount importance. That is why I am highly critical of the PIFI agenda, how can you call it 'structured' if they want to put $755m of potential unit funds in the hands of an unnamed RE that has done NO diligence and has NO idea of the understanding and health of this fund.

I want my rights protected, but more importantly in the short term I do not want liquidation and not one of you can guarantee that the no vote will not bring liquidation of our money and that scares me more than NSX and a change in constitution that at this point has proved absolutely fruitless.

Burnt · 7 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Burnt said:
Posters on this forum who are supportive of a NNN vote have mostly backed up their view with facts - facts that exist within the Funds own Constitution as well as the Corporations Act. If the NNN vote succeeds, it does not mean that the Fund will be forced into liquidation - this is a fact. Unit holders will be entitled to hold a meeting to vote on other proposed resolutions, one of which could be liquidation, which I'm sure would get an overwhelming NO vote.

It is also a fact (under Corporations Act) that the RE cannot walk away from the Fund if they don't get the outcome that suits them. It is a fact - no one at this stage has to have another RE waiting in the wings before we act to obtain other alternatives.

No one is for liquidation. We have just stated the facts that Wellington has only provided very limited options, neither of which is acceptable to a lot of unit holders. This is a fact. We want other options and are willing to fight for them.

Of course we all have our own opinions and views, and discussion and debate based on fact is the purpose of this thread. I have not yet seen one example of No supporters personally attacking or abusing anyone with opposing views. There is no need to resort to this when you have facts, logic and a sense of fairness on your side.

Post Again

Maverick2802 · 7 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Fact: Jenny Hutson does not want an orderly wind up.

Fact: There is no RE in place if WC resigns, I don't want this whole process to start again with an ASIC (gulp) appointed RE who will cost us a hell of a lot more that 0.7%

Fact: PIFI appointed lawyer Kalinda Cobby stated to people in Sydney that we could do "a lot worse than Jenny Hutson, we should go with her and then monitor her performance".

Fact: the existing constitution with all it's investor friendly rights has not helped us in the slightest as ASIC has done nothing, and will do nothing to help us, and that is what the no voters are all up in arms about. I have copies of letters from finance minister who has stated that and will gladly send to you if you wish via email.

Fact: WC has counted 3000 votes and 97% have voted for yes to at least option one, these people must have the same concerns as myself.

Fact: we have not received 1 cent in distributions since the first January payment and we will receive 3 cents per unit by Christmas this year and then quaterly thereafter.

How many more facts do you want.

I am voting YYN tomorrow and I urge those that have not voted for at least Y in option 1 to consider the prospect of uncertainty that WC walking away will bring to your lives. Enough is enough, people just want to get on with their lives and know an income will be forthcoming and leaving the running of this one great fund to a competent manager in WC. I don't want to go through the stress of this year for next year and beyond.

breaker1 · 7 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Burnt said:
Post Again

Burnt if you continue to bump your posts over and over, we could all do the same, so kindly keep it in check or you'll wreck this forum for all of us.

breaker1 · 7 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

like2ski said:
Maverick2802,
I have recently joined this forum and note with interest your endless bagging of the recently formed PIFI.
Can you please, at least, explain your reasons for such behavior? is there some history/background between you and these people? are you behaving like a sore looser? are you just a spoiler?
In the absence of a better alternative on offer can you please enlighten us mere investors as to your far superior and more effective solution to resolve the problems?? In some of your posts you have been boringly repeating that the PIFI should propose the name of an alternative RE.
For all I know they may not wish to change the RE or may already have one!!, but in any case as they have recently formed and would have a lot on their plate right now. If you are available why don't you offer to help instead of bagging them with your meaningless dribble.
You and other holders had plenty of time and opportunity to create/organize/structure something far better for all investors Australia wide by getting off your backsides months earlier. YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE IT!!!

Like2ski,

We have every right as investors on this forum to counter the NONONO renegade party agenda. Why? Because if that party is successful, the rest of us, the majority, get dragged into your dangerous risky game with you whether we like it or not.

Your group is not even looking for 51%, you're clearly happy with only 26%, enough to shut WC down. In other words, if 74% of the rest of PIF investors are outraged by this selfish tactic, you couldn't care less. Thats what your minority agenda boils down to and thats NOT ON!

Talk about boring repeating, check out Burnts bump. Edit:Er! That doesn't sound so good, does it?

sugar3157 · 8 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi all..I feel sorry for everyone and myself who have their hard earned money in PIF...I have read all the posts on here and admire each of you for your individual beliefs...at the end of the day it doesn't really matter, the majority of votes could go either way...I know how hard it is without the income from my investment...the majority of investors I think are in the same boat as me...
My faith in paperwork, constitutions etc is non existant any more...it all means as much to me as our great government protector ASIC...NONE...
I want my money back as you all do too...
what we have to think about is the PIF has got some chance of recovering over time...with good management...JH has got the experience to do this...she does have a excellent track record...I too don't agree with all she has proposed to do...but at this late stage I think she is our only hope...definately not liquidation....so please remember we are all on the same side...but just differ in our way to go....
and thank god we don't live in a third world country....
Go the little aussie battlers!!!!!

like2ski · 8 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

breaker1 said:
Like2ski,

We have every right as investors on this forum to counter the NONONO renegade party agenda. Why? Because if that party is successful, the rest of us, the majority, get dragged into your dangerous risky game with you whether we like it or not.

Your group is not even looking for 51%, you're clearly happy with only 26%, enough to shut WC down. In other words, if 74% of the rest of PIF investors are outraged by this selfish tactic, you couldn't care less. Thats what your minority agenda boils down to and thats NOT ON!

Talk about boring repeating, check out Burnts bump. Edit:Er! That doesn't sound so good, does it?

Breaker1,
No one is saying that you don't have the right to counter the NO NO NO vote
As far as I understand the PIFI is not a renegade agenda and you are all welcome to join and take part in the decision making.
JH is using corporate negotiation tactics (Bullying) us to have her way and many of you are falling for it. JH is not silly and has too much at stake to do that.
The reference to boring/repeating was made in relation to the appointment of the new RE ???

breaker1 · 8 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

judym said:
I attended the investor forum in Sydney and carefully read all the documentation regarding PIF. I have 20 years experience trading in shares. I have not read and am not interested in the newspaper articles.
My understanding is that Wellington is offering unit holders a new management, a venue to withdraw from the fund (via part buyback and then units sale), some income and a possibility of a pick up in value when market conditions improve.

The only other option available is to allow a liquidation which to me means money in the pockets of more lawyers and zilch for me, the unit holder. We also know that this is the worst time to offload realestate.
Just to clarify a few points raised on this thread:
the support facility was with MFiaSco, now Octaviar, not with LLA.
The proposed constitution requires 4 persons and 51% units on issue to remove wellington. I can't see any problem with this. The chair is a person and unit holders can give him/her their proxies. If at all this is too easy, most funds require 75% votes to remove a manager.

Judym,

G'day and welcome on your first post!

Both burning the midnight oil. I've got to take my wife to the bus depo for another trip she's doing which leaves very early,

It's great to see another perspective.

Might be best to get the 51% sooner (before an EGM) rather than later (at an EGM) - either way you have to get 51% !

This would save an awful lot of trouble, JH would say, Hey! you've already got the numbers, here's the keys to the PIF, I'm gone. This would save huge amounts of time wasted on unseccessful, minority group, unecessary, EGM's.

51% up front, hmmm! not that bad - there is a good side to it!

like2ski · 8 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Maverick2802 said:
Sorry, I and many other investors on this forum don't believe that the liquidation of this fund is the way to go. If my posts are boring because I believe that PIFI is a wreckless minority organisation and wish to protect my hard earned unit holding from people who wish to liquidate, then don't read them.

I take offence to you calling my opinion as dribble because it does not match your own opinion. The fact is that JH has categorically stated she is not interested in liquidating this fund according to PIFI requests. Where does that leave us with NO RE to manage it. So I, and many others feel that no RE is of paramount importance. That is why I am highly critical of the PIFI agenda, how can you call it 'structured' if they want to put $755m of potential unit funds in the hands of an unnamed RE that has done NO diligence and has NO idea of the understanding and health of this fund.

I want my rights protected, but more importantly in the short term I do not want liquidation and not one of you can guarantee that the no vote will not bring liquidation of our money and that scares me more than NSX and a change in constitution that at this point has proved absolutely fruitless.

Maverick2802,
I did not say that liquidation is the way to go and, as you don't believe that it is, why don't you and others join the PIFI, have your say & make a difference.
JH has said that she is not interested in liquidating the fund but she has also said that, if she doesn't get her way she will and it will be a fire sale not an orderly one ??? JH is using her negotiation skills and bludgeoning us unit holders into submission.Obviously most unit holders are not familiar with these tactics and are afraid.
As many have said on here, there are many other options available to us.
IH is not offering any guarantees apart from a lot of SPIN, which we are getting plenty of from our politicians,!! What happens if it does not materialise? how will you and others feel then???
As far as I am aware no one is proposing to place the fund in the hands of an unnamed RE. The RE would not change unless we want it to under the current constitution. In any case all these matters have been covered extensively on here and you and others keep harping on them.
Incidentally you have not answered any of my questions!!

breaker1 · 8 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

like2ski said:
Breaker1,
No one is saying that you don't have the right to counter the NO NO NO vote
As far as I understand the PIFI is not a renegade agenda and you are all welcome to join and take part in the decision making.
JH is using corporate negotiation tactics (Bullying) us to have her way and many of you are falling for it. JH is not silly and has too much at stake to do that.
The reference to boring/repeating was made in relation to the appointment of the new RE ???

JH needs 75% of the entire vote to get in as RE, your group only needs 26% to shut her down - thats NOT bludgeoning or bullying.

If your agenda is that good, what are you worried about?

Compared to WC's task, you've got the upper hand by far, those sorts of odds would be unfair in any game.

Anyway, soon this ASF banter will be of little consequence, as the votes are rolling in fast.

Hope it works out best for the majority, if not all!

breaker1 · 8 September 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Maverick2802 said:
I believe that PIFI is a wreckless minority organisation and wish to protect my hard earned unit holding.

I take offence to you calling my opinion as dribble because it does not match your own opinion. The fact is that JH has categorically stated she is not interested in liquidating this fund according to PIFI requests. Where does that leave us with NO RE to manage it. So I, and many others feel that no RE is of paramount importance. That is why I am highly critical of the PIFI agenda, how can you call it 'structured' if they want to put $755m of potential unit funds in the hands of an unnamed RE that has done NO diligence and has NO idea of the understanding and health of this fund.

I want my rights protected, but more importantly in the short term I do not want liquidation and not one of you can guarantee that the no vote will not bring liquidation of our money.

Anyone who likes Maverick click on this and turn up your speakers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYrsDT02OcE

Maverick you're a legend mate!

Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

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