Like2ski, I have been so busy today I must have missed the reference to breaches of corporate law, I can only find:::In an offer to investors allegedly riddled with errors;;;and;;;"explanatory memorandum" was "complex" and contained more than a dozen errors. When I spoke with WC today, I asked about this and was assured they are administrative errors, nothing more sinister. Seamisty
Hi Seamisty. If I sign the PIF Initiative application form to get the answers to my questions, I have to pay 100 bucks, agree to “comply fully with the requirements of the Association’s Rules” - wonder what they are!!!
JADEL representative of the PIF Initiative:
Is Dennis Chapman the President of or hold any position in your PIFI group ?
If So, by whose authority in the PIF Action Group did he make these announcements on behalf of the entire membership of the PIF Action Group?
??????
I have said nothing about the PIFI's right to contact anyone - I have said, they have NOT got the right as the PIFI to approach the MEDIA and represent themselves as the PIF Action Group without the consensus of the Action Group organisers or its' members.
I now seriously question your comprehensive ability of straight-forward posts on this site.
JADEL
You haven't answered my questions above yet?
Further, is your PIFI group going to make a retraction with a profuse apology in the AFR and also on this ASF thread ???
Do you have to pay $100 bucks up front before you get to see the rules? What if you don't like them?Seamisty:22_yikes:Hi Seamisty. If I sign the PIF Initiative application form to get the answers to my questions, I have to pay 100 bucks, agree to “comply fully with the requirements of the Association’s Rules” - wonder what they are!!!
Yes Juan, it is an action group represented by PIF investors, but Breaker's point is that it is not representative of PIF investors! - There is a huge difference.I've finally seen the article in today's AFR. What's all the fuss about? It says "PIF action group" and not "PIF Action Group". Yes it's an action group which is represented by PIF investors. Let's all get serious without turning this into an Abbott and Costello routine.
Do you have to pay $100 bucks up front before you get to see the rules? What if you don't like them?Seamisty:22_yikes:
The fuss is about the article has no connection to do with the PIF Action Group or the PIF action group, and if it is no big deal, then the QLD PIFI will not have a problem with contacting the editor and requesting a retraction which has caused confusion and angst to a large number of elderly, vunerable Action Group members who have contacted AG reps today quite distressed thinking they are supporting the 'orderly windup' of the PIF, when they in fact, want to receive their anticipated distribution and the possibility of stronger unit value in 3-5 years. No big deal if you don't care how many seniors have been affected, no fuss at all if you are not responsible for mopping up the repercusions. I am really upset at the lack of compassion shown by a small group of holders who are prepared to use whatever means available to further their own agendas at the expense of others. SeamistyI've finally seen the article in today's AFR. What's all the fuss about? It says "PIF action group" and not "PIF Action Group". Yes it's an action group which is represented by PIF investors.
Let's all get serious without turning this into an Abbott and Costello routine.
Hi Seamisty,At 10-20 cents they will be a bargain and it won't be just CS buying!!:grinsking
Waleroo if you want to take a gamble, go for it. I received 2 ph calls from WC today, once again reiterating that if they do not get the 75% vote, thats it, its all over. If you believe they are lying, that is your choice. I am simply not prepared to take that chance!!! No way am I going to risk a potential unit value restoration and a annual distribution even if I have to wait 3-5years, for a miserly estimated 14cent per unit liquidation price gross!! You are in dreamsland if you think WC will not walk away. I actually give them credit for perserverance to date. I just hope the people who are prepared to support WC are rewarded for their faith and patience, because so help me if it was me in control, I would only be looking out for those that demonstrated some semblance of committment. SeamistyMay be we should all get serious and take a hard look at what JC is offering I am sorry to say it is nothing May be a vote No No No vote is our only option and see what happens I do not see any money from JC guarantee to arrive unless you do what I say and pass go or you lose all How can they decide to shut down the PIF they only just got it I think a NO NO NO is our only opition
So I haven't seen any quarantees of unit price our elderly investors will receive on liquidation of the fund if they vote N N N ( and yes I don't want estimates or target rates of return, I want written guarantees please)and yes I would certainly be tempted to pay 10-20cents for units with a NTAof 45cents with an estimated return of 13.5%%. Who wouldn't?? If you think investors are silly enough to take the risk of receiving 14cents per unit if WC walk away, then I am silly enough to think I will pick up units at 10-20cents. SeamistyHi Seamisty,
Very true, elderly investors need income, maybe they'll get it with WC, who knows. But a great many of them just need and want as much of their money back as soon as possible so that they can SECURE AN INCOME. With WC their money will be locked in indefinately while VULTURES buy into the scheme on the NSX getting a bargain for themselves while diluting the value of units held by these elderly people. Note your own comment above.
Oh yes, that's right you're very concerned for these confused elderly investors. And you're right, no one likes people "that use whatever means available to further their own agendas at the expense of others".
Sorry, I don't understand the fuss about the "action group". I have read the articles in the GCBully and the Aust. and both clearly state that comments were made by members of the PIFI Initiative, "an action group". So what if PIFI is described as an action group. Get over it.
By the way, what is the objective of the PIFI Action Group ? If Seamisty and Breaker1 are representatives of the group, then quite obviously the groups objective is to promote Wellingtons propositions. So why "action group"? -
is your "action" to discredit and demean anyone opposing Wellingtons propostitions ? If so, are you guys also entitled to the .25% commission being paid under Wellington's "buy votes" scheme ?
This is directed to the PIFI
Let me make sure that I have got this right!
The PIFI want unit holder to vote No- No –No on the 18th for the following reasons:
Item 1 “to amend the constitution.” Vote “No” as there is a chance that the PIF will not have to be liquidated in a fire sale.
Question 1. On what do you base this “chance”?
Question 2. Ms. Hudson has a proven track record and a personal affinity with the PIF. Who do you have ready to step in, prepare a new constitution and call a meeting before the March deadline?
Question 3. I would like elaboration on the statement “Please understand that hidden in the Constitution is an amendment that is cunningly contrived to make it almost imposible(sic) to remove WC if you vote for option 1”
Item 2 “effect a buy-back of units”. Vote “No” because the buy-back proposal does not (a.) operate equally with regard to unit holders investment ratios, and (b.) appears designed to remove a considerable number of unit holders with small investments.
Question. Is this such a bad idea? The smaller investors are probably the ones who need their cash most urgently. If the buyback does result in a significantly less number of unit holders, there are then economies of scale from Wellington’s point of view, and fewer members to lobby from any Action Groups perspective.
Item 3 “replace the current responsible entity with Wellington Capital Limited.” I agree with a “no” vote. I can understand that Wellington would like to see some guarantee that their efforts are protected, but in effect this is similar to giving them 3 years redundancy pay.
I also note from my invitation to join the PIFI that I would have to agree that I would “comply fully with the requirements of the Association’s Rules”. However there is no mention of what those rules are!
Finally I would re-iterate, If it is a “No” vote, and the fund is liquidated, what do you intend to do with any dividends received? Spend it? Invest it at what? - 6 cents on 45 cents! Better that!!!!!
John H.
:horse::horse::horse:If ASIC were doing their job PIFI would not be necessary. We need to take a lead in the recovery of our "hard-earned".
A steady flow of distributions would be acceptable, if they were offered, providing there was some sort of redemption program other that the NSX.
JH is adamant that NO cash will leave the Fund. You are on your own - sell your units to some one else!
Without a reliable income and a sure means of redemption who would want them?
There is a better alternative and I don't mean liquidation.
The PIFI are a small group of investors who have spent a lot of time and money including excellent legal advice to better the outcome for all of us - big and small.
It is not too late!
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