- Joined
- 14 August 2008
- Posts
- 33
- Reactions
- 0
Hi DoraNBoots,
It is interesting to hear that you believe JH would stay as RE after losing the vote because the RE business will still make its 0.7% fee until the PIF is sold down over the next year as a simple liquidation service. That is not her business. What happens to her staff after the PIF is closed. Personally I would expect her to walk away as quickly as possible as I do not believe that simple liquidation is part of her business model.
It appears to me that her personal goals are to help the PIF investors recover their money and continue to receive distributions. But her business goal is probably to create a long term managed fund that would eventually list on the ASX.
I do not think that JH is really short of money.
How many other REs are interested in PIF. It is not an absolutely fabulous business opportunity. Unit holders are running everywhere and anywhere - Solicitors, ASIC, Courts, Politicians etc. - does not sound like a normal group of happy investors to me.
Consider - Yes, Yes, No.
Regards, RickH:couch
Hi RickH
........For these reasons I still believe a no no no vote is best and then a new meeting called quickly putting up changes required for orderly work out. If WC is not interested in this then so be it I am sure there are others who for this type of fee will take it on.
This will still get us the same money by christmas and get us our 45 cents plus over the next few years which I cannot see happening for many years to come from the NSX.
The reason for the NSX is simply the long term value it puts on WC balance sheet and is a clear conflict over what is best for the unitholders versus what is best for the manager. It has nothing to do with the redemptions as even the funds own constitution gives the manager power to extend the freezing period. Have a read of it carefully and it shows up more lies that WC have told about why they want to list the fund.
I think it would be pretty childish of WC to simply walk away if they lose the battle to list on the NSX.
I think at the moment they are just playing hardball. Hoping the older unit holders will crumble and they can do what they like.
I believe if they do lose res #1. They wont take there ball and wonder off. They'll hang around. Because its not like they are being asked to manage the fund for free.
It is not a vote for or against the RE. The RE is JH and co and a No vote won't remove them as RE. All the No vote (for resolution 1) will do is say we don't agree with the changes you are asking us to sign off on.
We would not be saying we don't want the constitution to be changed we would just be saying No to the changes WC have proposed.
Page 6 of the EM:
"Unitholders have a right under the constitution to call a general meeting and consider other alternatives."
Hi Flatback,
.........A NO vote for Res (1) does not lead down the path of total destruction, It merely calls us all back to the table, to consider mutually agreeeable alternative ideas.
I am currently considering changing my vote to: (1)NO (2)YES (3)NO.
Best wishes to all.
Hi All,
Please everyone, look at the facts as pointed out above in summaries of previous posts. Look at what our rights are and the ability we have to exercise them.
A NO VOTE DOES NOT MEAN LIQUIDATION OF THE FUND.
A NO VOTE DOES NOT MEAN REMOVAL OFTHE RE.
A NO VOTE DOES NOT MEAN THE FUND WILL BE UNABLE TO PAY THE PROMISED DISTRIBUTIONS THIS YEAR.
A NO VOTE MEANS THAT WE DON'T ACCEPT THE PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE FUNDS CONSTITUTION I.E. NSX LISTING AND A DEPLETION OF OUR RIGHTS.
Please keep your minds open and do not give up and resign yourselves to something you are not completely happy with. Give the facts careful consideration.
Remember too, even if you have already voted - you have the right to change your vote !!!!
Cheers.
I believe even with a loss to res #1 WC will still stay on.
In relation to her staff, offices etc when (taking the hypothetical here) the PIF is concluded - well I would believe that very few of the staff would be new recruits that were brought on specifically to deal with the PIF. They would be current WC staff being utilised in a variety of different roles.
Your statement that her personal goal is to help PIF investors recover their money. Well if this truly is the case, then even with a loss to res #1, you would assume that she would stay on as the RE. As she would be achieving her personal goal of helping out, whilst still retaining a "healthy" income herself by being the RE.
Hi Burnt,
Could you also (and as succinctly) list the proposed recommended alternatives to the "No" vote?
Thanks NewTrader. That is constructive.........but see Rick's note re: Jenny remaining if a "No" vote.I know this is not directed at myself, but, hey i'll throw my two cents in.
What I believe should happen is this.
Vote No for res #1
WC remain as the RE (provided they dont take there ball and go home)
Run the fund as they proposed if listing on the exchange were to occur (paying distribution as proposed)
Adopt new constitution - freezing redemptions for another 180 or 360 days (the length of time would depend on the position of the fund)
Allow redemptions or partial redemptions at a later time.
I'm sure if WC can run the fund as well as they claim they will be able too and can achieve the targets that they believe they can achieve then there would be a lesser amount of people seeking to exit. Further it may encourage others to invest. However, that all depends on the performance of WC.
She [JH] jumped at the chance to take on PIF, no one else tendered.
I know this is not directed at myself, but, hey i'll throw my two cents in.
What I believe should happen is this.
Vote No for res #1
WC remain as the RE (provided they dont take there ball and go home)
Run the fund as they proposed if listing on the exchange were to occur (paying distribution as proposed)
Adopt new constitution - freezing redemptions for another 180 or 360 days (the length of time would depend on the position of the fund)
Allow redemptions or partial redemptions at a later time.
I'm sure if WC can run the fund as well as they claim they will be able too and can achieve the targets that they believe they can achieve then there would be a lesser amount of people seeking to exit. Further it may encourage others to invest. However, that all depends on the performance of WC.
For some of those who are recommending the No for Res 1
It appears you don't want the constitution, but you do want Jenny to remain as RE. This tends to suggest that you don't have another RE to replace Jenny/WC.
I don't know about you but JH does not strike me as a person who would stick around to be told what to do.
If you do want JH to hang around and you have not got another RE that is you beaut! I would not be calling her bluff as there is too much at stake now!
For some of those who are recommending the No for Res 1
It appears you don't want the constitution, but you do want Jenny to remain as RE. This tends to suggest that you don't have another RE to replace Jenny/WC.
I don't know about you but JH does not strike me as a person who would stick around to be told what to do.
If you do want JH to hang around and you have not got another RE that is you beaut! I would not be calling her bluff as there is too much at stake now!
Why do some people not trust WC .
Iceman Thank you agai /n for the above work you have done But i cant see Wellington getting 25% growth year in year out for 7 years Also you may have forgot to allow for Wellingtons fees each year which would bring the numbers down a bit further Again thanks for your time / Dane //Hi All
Just following on from the projected returns I have tried to make an annual table below of projected position of the fund based on the WC bench mark allocations of our funds and numbers they have provided.
Year 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Opening .45 .41 .44 .47 .51 .55 .60 .67
Distribution -.06 -.06 -.06 -.06 -.06 -.06 - .06 -.06
Income (10% pa on 55%) .02 .02 .02 .03 .03 .03 .03 .04
Growth (25% on 45%) 0 .05 .05 .05 .05 .05 .05 .06
Closing .41 .42 .44 .45 .46 .48 .50 .53
My assumptions are that NTA is 45 cents
We get 6 cents a year paid out to us.
On 55% of our money we get no growth just 10% income
On 45% we get a annual return of 25% income and growth
Growth portion is calculated on closing previous year balance so it does compound.
So based on WC own numbers and benchmarks set out in information booklet and a very generous 25% growth factor on the money they want to invest in growth assets our NTA will remain by year seven 53 cents.
For an ASX listed fund with a clean history currently many are trading below NTA.
Why for the next 7 years is this thing price going to rise above 45 cents through having as a listed fund. WC are not magicians and these are their own numbers although I dont even think they would say they could get 25% so the above numbers would get worse.
Where does the $1.00 come from ?
Their own document if you read it carefully says that an alternative moritorium and work out could be put to unit holders. It just remains very well hidden in how the phrase it.
This would get us 45 cents back in 3 years with some upside if existing asset values improved and OCV claim maximised.
This has to be in investors best interests but it is not in WC best interests as a permanent listed fund adds permanent income for them which adds to WC wealth by 10s of millions.
The only reason you would not vote no no no is if you believe WC that it is their proposal or liquidation which is simply not true.
In fact if you vote no yes no you would get the buy back which given there will be 3 cents available according to WC would allow us to get some money by christmas while either WC agreed or another RE was put in place to conduct orderly realisation and quarterly return of our money.
Its weird but no yes no option does not seem to be considered in WC booklet but I will look again.
Anyway looking forward to comments from others on the above numbers.
Ask her?
This is what I am saying seamisty, there is NO alternative.
...
Oh Dear! Somebody at the end of this debacle is going to be able to say "I told you so." - For or aginst JH - who knows? - But by then it will be too late!
For some of those who are recommending the No for Res 1
It appears you don't want the constitution, but you do want Jenny to remain as RE. This tends to suggest that you don't have another RE to replace Jenny/WC.
I don't know about you but JH does not strike me as a person who would stick around to be told what to do.
If you do want JH to hang around and you have not got another RE that is you beaut! I would not be calling her bluff as there is too much at stake now!
JH’s campaign is based on threats and plays on the fear of the unitholders. The resolutions she has proposed are not to our benefit but she is counting on us signing off on them by scaring us into believing we must pass these resolutions or the fund will be liquidated. The only way to deal with this type of threat is to prove you have the numbers - 26% of the vote who know you are full of BS.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?