Weekly income from trading - is it possible?

[nizar]

As for the compounding argument.

Day trading is a profession and you need to take out wages from your winnings. This will limit the compounding ability to a greater or lesser extent. You will also eventually run out of adequate liquidity.

Obviously you can compound it up to a certain extent, but most day traders will day trade a set amount of capital and any excess will buy scrip for the bottom drawer, rather than ramping up their day trading excessively.
The reasons for this are probably psychological as well. Trading 1 contract is different to trading 5 contracts, is different to 20 contracts, 100 contract and so on.

Just my

Great post Wayne.

 

[wayneL]

I believe it can be done.
A few months ago I would have said impossible.

I won't say the only way but i think probably the easiest way to make that sort of money (1% per week unleveraged) is through a high frequency trading system.

So its possible but it would take a lot more than 10-15 trades.

Actually I would say this is impossible with 10-15 trades.

Because of the high frequency sort of system that is required for these sorts of returns, I would be looking at forex. Trading (ASX) stocks the brokerage would kill you.

Nonsense!

My trading frequency is less than that (per instrument). I won't say my returns so I don't have to prove them etc. While frequency is important, it doesn't have to be 50 trades a day. (though it could be if that is the trader's style)

Why do you make definitive statements in an area where you have no experience?

 

[nizar]

Nonsense!

My trading frequency is less than that (per instrument). I won't say my returns so I don't have to prove them etc. While frequency is important, it doesn't have to be 50 trades a day. (though it could be if that is the trader's style)

Why do you make definitive statements in an area where you have no experience?

Does "I think probably" mean definitive to you?

 

[wayneL]

Does "I think probably" mean definitive to you?

How about this statement of yours:

Actually I would say this is impossible with 10-15 trades.

... which I was clearly referring to.

Looks pretty definitive to me.

At your stage in your trading career, I would be more inclined to ask questions, and seek answers, rather than making statements implying experience.

I'm not trying to be mean or rude, but such rigidness in opinion based on nothing, is damaging to both yourself and those who read; it doesn't help anyone.

Cheers

 

[julius]

Is it easy? Technically it is much much easier than many things. You do of course need a method that works. The difficult part is mostly Psychological.

Not sure I agree.

It's by far the hardest thing I've ever tried to learn. Maybe I haven't tried to learn much ? :

I would say technically it's very simple, but still very very difficult. Extremely steep learning curve.

What your actually improving at can be so ambiguous at times...

 

[wayneL]

Not sure I agree.

It's by far the hardest thing I've ever tried to learn. Maybe I haven't tried to learn much ? :

I would say technically it's very simple, but still very very difficult. Extremely steep learning curve.

What your actually improving at can be so ambiguous at times...

Well, I would say it's technically easier than building a bridge, being a lawyer, training racehorses, being a computer programmer, or even a qualified farrier.

This ain't rocket science.

Maybe we're saying the same thing: "technically it's very simple, but still very very difficult" seems to be an oxymoronic statement, yet so true.

So why is it difficult? It's gotta be psychological. Our reptilian brain wants to do the wrong thing, the exact opposite to what we know to do when real dollars are not involved. The ambiguity of improvement you mention is in both managing the inner reptile, and in the recognition of patterns... experience in other words, therefore psychological.

I'm not trying to belittle the actual technical knowledge required, but c'mon, I spend most of my time BSing on forums and playing computer games. When a trade comes up, a quick mental evaluation, a couple of clicks and I'm in... play computer games until an exit condition is hit.

Keep that reptile on a leash and technicals can be written up in probably 100 pages.

 

[wayneL]

PS - I'm speaking specifically on day trading. Trading options for instance, or fundamental analysis, involves substantially more technical knowledge.

 

[Sean K]

Keep that reptile on a leash and technicals can be written up in probably 100 pages.

LOL. I'll tell the turtles that this afternoon Wayne, and ask for some tips.

 

[wayneL]

LOL. I'll tell the turtles that this afternoon Wayne, and ask for some tips.

Here ya go:

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/files/turtlerules.pdf

The complete original Turtle trading rules; 37 pages including about 12 pages of title, table of contents, intros and forewords.

 

[Wysiwyg]

At your stage in your trading career, I would be more inclined to ask questions, and seek answers, rather than making statements implying experience.

Still finding your posts mostly informative waynel and the above sentence taught me a great deal too.

 

[julius]

Wayne,

On a side note : I personally think bridges are bloody fascinating, but a couple of my mates who are engineering students tell me they are simple in terms of engineering complexity. Time consuming work though.

I think you probably know more than you know... I've always found this when Ive asked traders questions. You might only be in a trade for 5 minutes of the day, but your also choosing not to trade the rest of it, while noobs like me jump in and out getting burnt.

Psychology is definitely a big part of what makes day trading hard, but I also think the tiny margin for error in trading plays a pretty big part too. What I mean is you can be doing 90% of things right and still be losing money, then finally you find a tipping point where it all starts coming together. And then you lose some more money.

Trading is fundamentally different from other jobs because you can do everything 'right' and still end up being 'wrong'. This is where the psychology comes in because the first thing your head wants to do is adjust the way you think by associating the loss with something that just happened ealier.

But you also have to account for the market constantly changing. That's the single biggest difference I've noticed with good traders, they spot the changes and adapt straight away.

 

[trillionaire#1]

I tried something along these lines briefly before coming to my senses.
yes an experienced person can make a living from day trading,
but its quite likely anyone else will be eating crayfish one week, two minute noodles the next, as someone else said try paper trading first, and protect your capital

 

[nizar]

At your stage in your trading career, I would be more inclined to ask questions, and seek answers, rather than making statements implying experience.

Hi Wayne.

Yeh no worries.

I didn't mean to come across as being experienced or whatever, just expressing my opinion.

High frequency was the only way I knew it could be done.

Turns out I was wrong -- Well thanks for correcting me.

As for asking questions, well I have started dozens of threads trying to seek answers. You know that.

As for your rigidness in opinion comment, well in my time here I have gone from hardcore fundies, to blue chart breakouts, and now to mechanical systems trading. Clearly shows I have an open mind and always open to improvement and alternative trading methods.

But now I have a question from you.

Can you please elaborate on your strategy and how you are pulling 1% per week unleveraged from a low number of trades?

I don't want proof of trades of anything like that, just the overall strategy and statistics of the system.

Thanks.

 

[AMR]

Go back to work part time, so you at least remove the strain of "this next tick has to pay for dinner".

Start a CFD account and start trading $1 contracts for a few months. You still feel the pain of losing and the joy of winning without doing some real damage.

Spend a few hundred on a reading list.

(You mention daytrading so I assume you mean futures and forex...stocks might be a bit big)

 

[CFD]

but c'mon, I spend most of my time BSing on forums and playing computer games. pages.

That's what I'm doing wrong!

 

[wayneL]

Can you please elaborate on your strategy and how you are pulling 1% per week unleveraged from a low number of trades?

I don't want proof of trades of anything like that, just the overall strategy and statistics of the system.

Thanks.

* I didn't say how much I was pulling... it varies.
* It's not unleveraged, it's futures, but I leverage conservatively.
* I choose markets I *suspect* will yield reasonable intraday swings.

So I go for a decent intraday swing... nothing fancy, nothing nobody has ever heard of (in fact I've posted some techniques in the past). That means in the current market (in nice round achievable figures) I'm shooting for 100 Dow points, 10 SP500 points, $1 on crude futures, $10 on Gold, 50 ticks on Currency futs etc. If futures are quiet I'll find something on Nasdaq that might put in a bold move.

Sometimes I get less sometimes more, but that's what I'm shooting for. It's trend trading on a 5minute time frame (with entries off supp/res/retracements rather than breakout type trading).. finessing low risk entries on a 1 minute chart.

Indices probably average 4-5 entries a week, oil/gold/currencies maybe 8 -15 between the lot -entries between them.

That's it, no rocket science there.

 

[ROE]

Ok I will chime in.

Can it be done. ABSOLUTELY.

Lets say you aim is $1000 per week (data+ brokerage+ Tax+ etc) to get you $500 wage.

That's just 40 points per week on the SPI. That is no hard task for an experienced trader to average trading just 1 contract. and $50,000 would cover that no problem.

Don't give me the compounding thing you don't need to compound your account until your richer than Buffett.

jersey10. Will you be able to do it. No. Sorry, but thinking like you have stated in your first post is about as far away from the right approach as I could imagine.

Prove it show me a trader who consistently double its money every year?
if you can do it with $500 bucks why stop at $500 why not go for a few thousand or 10K because the market is big enough for you to earn a few K a week...

Because 2% is just a small number only 40 points movement.

Actually I will do walk the talk for you and challenge you..
I give you 50K if you can double the money to 100K you can have 35K profit and I take 15K
and if you lose my cash I just ask for 50K plus 9% interest on it, so I want my 54K back

So you cannot lose with this challenge because you can make 35K and even if you go to the bank and borrow
50K @ 10% if still pocket 30K .. after all cost 5K interest but you make 35K..

Damn easy isnt it...good easy money...license to print cash the stock market

 

[>Apocalypto<]

totally possible.

 

[Markcoinoz]

Jersey10,

Something else that i don't think anyone else has picked up on.

You were very specific in saying over the Longterm.

IMO, thats what sorts out the wheat from the chaff.

I agree that anyone can make or lose a substantial amount in this volatile market in the short term. The question is, "Can you stay the distance?"

If you had of been a trader in 2001 after the Dot.com Bubble/Burst in 2000, the market was very dead. Very little volatility. It was very difficult apart from the banks. It wasn't until September 2001 when everything changed. Volatility can be your best friend or your worst nightmare. At the time it became my worst nightmare. I lost my shirt so to speak on warrants and took me years to gain confidence again. I have been in the markets since 83.

I don't day trade anymore. However, i look for opportunities and follow the swings. Much less heartache and stress. This market is a Daytraders paradise if you are any good. The biggest risk that D/T can come unstuck is not managing the risk for each trade and not being strict in setting stop losses. A lack of discipline is a dangerous thing to have and goes against the grain of being a good D/T.

We only need to look at Margin Lending & CFD's to see how easy it is to get burnt. I don't use either.

Anyway, if you can get through the next 2years with some success
you are well onto your way of making your first Million. There are a fair few who have done it. A mate of mine started with $30k in his SMSF a few years ago.

He now has close to a Million in that account and has another trading account to make good wages. Works long hours and a good researcher of the stocks he buys. As well, he has good scanning software, a couple of computers and double screen to give him the edge. Not everyones way of trading.
You need to first find out where your niche is.

All the best with it.

I'll check in 2 years time.

Cheers markcoinoz

 

[Trembling Hand]

Prove it show me a trader who consistently double its money every year?

I never said that you can double your money every year. I said you can make $500 net each week from $50,000 no problem.

if you can do it with $500 bucks why stop at $500 why not go for a few thousand or 10K because the market is big enough for you to earn a few K a week...

Because 2% is just a small number only 40 points movement.

Actually I will do walk the talk for you and challenge you..
I give you 50K if you can double the money to 100K you can have 35K profit and I take 15K
and if you lose my cash I just ask for 50K plus 9% interest on it, so I want my 54K back

So you cannot lose with this challenge because you can make 35K and even if you go to the bank and borrow
50K @ 10% if still pocket 30K .. after all cost 5K interest but you make 35K..

Damn easy isnt it...good easy money...license to print cash the stock market

No problem. set up a futures account With IB and I will make $1000 per week from it. Just Like I said. I didn't say you can double your money every year until you are as rich as Buffett. I said you can consistently take $1000 out from a small account day trading.

But lets make it more interesting. I want ALL the profit AND If I do it you have to match the profit to me $ for $ from your own mouth. If I lose any I will give you five times the loss to you + your 9% interest

Before you take it PM me with your email so I can said you some statements with what you may be up for in loses.