Website design and forum functionality feedback

sptrawler said:

As Zaxon says, it would be great if certain threads could take prominence, as there is a wealth of information in some of them. But I assume this would be difficult to implement, also the threads I find informative and interesting and, may not be the same as the next person.

Click to expand...

I think highlighting especially useful or valuable threads and making them easy to find is a good idea. I am looking into solutions for this.

sptrawler said:

Since your server move the site does hang up a lot, but I assume that is out of your control.

Click to expand...

ASF has been under attack for several weeks. I have been doing my best to mitigate these attacks and they should have slowed down in the last day or so.

sptrawler said:

One thought that just hit me, could you put a 5 minute delay on posts going live, so that when you have time to fix them before they show on the forum.

Click to expand...

Not sure this is feasible but I'll check. In any case, I recommend proofreading and making corrections immediately after posting.

I don't agree with post editing either.

In some cases it's a matter of people getting "attacked" for something they said, then altering a post to pretend they didn't really say it, which makes all the replies to the original post seem meaningless and confused.

Hi Joe, reading through all the discussion those sayings "trying to be all things to all people" and "trying to herd cats" comes to mind and how to stay sane make money at the same time?

I think you can actually achieve all..........not sure about the sane bit, if you were sane would you be doing this?

General chat seems to upset a large enough number of people, strangely I have always found many that have been offended were themselves very blunt and hardly diplomats but lets try and stay clear of the psychology.

But clearly most do not want to have to contend with these issues in their own lives never mind on a trading forum if everyone did we would have a better political system / discourse etc....but lets not go there either

I would suggest you retain the religious, political, social any other topics that get contentious (there is clearly a population for them) and park them in an area called the vault or lunatic asylum or basement, what ever, some title that gives a clear warning as to what lies within and keep it off the main page.
Maybe have a tab for members for easy access if hard not a biggie.
Have a header saying don't enter if you are offended by bla bla bla
Header also clearly says normal rules still apply....be nice or else your out.

Keep general chat on the front page for every thing else nice and gentle if a thread starts to spiral.....cast it into the vault.

Of course you are going to get the odd lunatic for which is where I would suggest you get your dictators hat on and deal with but for moderation I would suggest not getting too involved in bun fights save your energy and cast the problem out of sight into the vault.

To be honest the behaviour on this site is by far of a higher standard than any other that I am aware of of course largely driven by the quality of the posters.

A lot of times I go into a bookstore looking for a book on Applied Stock Market Technical Analysis, have a browse, find something else I like and come out with that as well (or instead of) the book I was looking for.

So, if you want to appeal to a particular customer then only stock books that would appeal to that type of customer, and take the chance that those sort of customers will stay interested in that topic, (which from your own research Joe you say isn't happening).

But if you want to keep customers flowing then have something of interest for a wide range of people (not suggesting pr0n, you don't want people in grubby raincoats in your shop), and sort the books by subject so that people not interested in particular books don't have to go into that particular section. (It still beats me why people complain about having travel sections in bookstores just because they never go anywhere).

Then find a way to financially benefit by everyone who comes into your store, not just the ones who want to buy books that your sponsors pay you to sell. Or maybe get sponsors for other areas in your store, like travel, sport, motor mechanics whatever.

People may well get interested in investing after coming here for something else and become valued members of the site. The quality of the posts here and civility of the posters are a great drawcard for you.

Point is that I think that if you stick to one subject that may be dear to your heart but appeals to a diminishing audience then you may go down the gurgler with a warm feeling inside of having fought a good fight, but you will go down.

There comes a time to decide whether you want a hobby or a business. Sometimes they dovetail together, at other times they self destruct each other.

Hope I'm not out of line saying this.

Joe Blow said:

Others, like having any-time edits and post deletes, I have fundamental objections to.

Click to expand...

Just a quick question on this Joe …..

If someone contacted you (an hour/day/whatever time) after a post had been submitted and wanted to edit/change/ possibly delete if appropriate …..

Assuming you thought the changes were in the best interest of the Forum, you could personally do this yes?? Would you mind if people contacted you to do that?

That way you retain the final say

I recall many years ago I posted a picture which for some reason came up huge in display. By the time I realized how it looked, my edit period had expired ….. I recall it was just a bit of mucking around in response to one of Trembling Hand's posts … but it was way out of context and had a totally wrong vibe to how it was intended … I was glad when the Thread finally completed a couple more pages so it was off screen

So the essence of all that babble is … I think there is a call for some post deletion if you approve

I'm not going to attempt to reply to the specifics of the last two posts (barney's arrived after I started this post) or I'll be here all day, but I do want to make some brief general observations.

I have noticed an improvement in the mood here since General Chat has been swept under the carpet. The problem with General Chat is the tone of the discussion that it generates. It is acrimonious, it is bitter, and it is filled with bile. Of course, I am speaking specifically of the political and religious threads. The bottom line is that it was affecting the tone and the mood of the entire forum. It is clear to me that political and religious discussions are unable to be conducted in a dispassionate and reasonable way. Too many people get too angry and emotional about these topics.

ASF must stay focused on financial markets. I realise that now. Allowing General Chat to dominate was a mistake. The focus must remain clear and unambiguous. There is no future for ASF as a General Chat forum. General Chat can continue, but it must remain out of sight by default. There is no other way to move forward. When I upgrade the forum software, I will find a way to make it visible in the New Posts searches to those who want it there, but it will be filtered out by default for all users.

If there are people here who have absolutely no interest in financial markets or investing, you are at the wrong website.

As for pleasing everyone, yes it is impossible. Everyone here wants something different. And yes, I mean everyone. And every single one of those people believes that what they think ASF should be is the ideal incarnation of ASF. Trying to please everyone is a recipe for endless frustration and mental anguish. I have to accept that it is a fruitless endeavour. All I can do is listen and try and make decisions based on feedback and suggestions that I think will benefit the community overall. That's the bottom line. ASF cannot be all things to all people.

barney said:

Just a quick question on this Joe …..

If someone contacted you (an hour/day/whatever time) after a post had been submitted and wanted to edit/change/ possibly delete if appropriate …..

Assuming you thought the changes were in the best interest of the Forum, you could personally do this yes?? Would you mind if people contacted you to do that?

That way you retain the final say

Click to expand...

I don't mind doing this. I do it on request and have no problem with it if I believe it is being requested for genuine reasons.

However, post alterations are not requested often, maybe once a month at most. Mostly people want formatting errors corrected or attachments removed when they have been posted more than once by mistake. That sort of stuff. I am more than happy to assist with issues like that.

Joe,

As far as I'm concerned you can delete any threads in General Chat that are full of bile as you say, and moderate any posts that are acrimonious or disrespectful. Religion and SSM have had their run anyway, and I can't see many other threads that fall into the bile bucket anyway.

If people are continually disrespectful to others it should be publicly pointed out to them.

But politics like it or not is important. Politicians run the world, their decisions affect the financial markets more than any other factor. Would we have had the financial wobbles recently without Trump's trade war with China ? Should we omit politics from discussions even it affects financial markets ? What about interesting and respectful threads like Electric Cars, and the Energy Generation and Storage threads. Is there a more appropriate area to discuss these that may or may not affect people's decisions to invest in Elco's or EV makers ?

There are a lot of other GC threads that have investment impacts, even the veganism thread. What about the potential loss of income for meat producers and potential gains for non meat producers ?

If you would care to ban religion or other social topics entirely that's great, but bagging GC for the sake of a couple of over heated topics seems a bit of an overkill.

respectfully yours,
SR.

With general chat, I wonder if a filter like it can only be accessed after x amount of posts, so the person is already committed to ASF before knowing general chat exists?
Just a thought I have seen this on another forum.

lindsayf said:

Just re this. If there is clear infringement of the behavioural 'code of ethics' or the general values that you want to support/promote on your forum then coming down on someone to 'enforce' that is perfectly fine as far as I am concerned - nor should it create doubt or angst in yourself for doing it. But I get that that is easier said than done for many of us. However - not doing that allows too many unenforced breaches and boundary excursions that muddies the flavour of the place...and that in itself will see the wrong people being more involved. I am a (relatively inactive) member at futures.io...it is a very well moderated site and there are clear behavioural and community focussed expectations. If they are repeatedly breached ( and people are given warnings) - that person is gone..with explanation but without apology. Mike is clear and firm and the site is better for that. He also has a good team of moderators that also do a good job.

Click to expand...

@lindsayf thank you for your post & it's a perfect time to restate the rules when posting in the 'Dump it here' thread. @Joe Blow, my basic rule template can be improved as sometimes it's hard to comply when you are emotive about the subject being discussed. It's a fine line reminding others of what is expected to maintain a friendly atmosphere as some take it as personal criticism rather than a reminder of the rules. (posted as feedback)

Timely reminder
Abuse, insults and personal attacks directed at other people are unacceptable in the "Dump it here' thread, I'm not policing the thread but it pays to remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Please think before you reply to a post.

THINK
T - is it true?
H - is it helpful?
I - is it inspiring?
N - is it necessary?
K - is it kind?

The 'Dump it here' thread rules
Members who post in the thread knows the rules - but it's worth repeating.

Opinions are welcomed
We shouldn't ridicule or challenge posters as it serves no purpose, it's like masturbating in public, it may feel good to you, but it looks disgusting to everyone else and it just makes the other person work harder to find ways to disagree with you.

Being right or wrong
Whether your view is right or wrong isn't important, what's more important, the 'Dump it here' thread gives you the ability to express your views without being ridiculed or challenged.

Experience
Every member enjoys a different level of experience & expertise, there is never a reason to display your level of knowledge by making others feel inferior.

Alternative view
If you disagree with someone rather than argue the merits of their points, post an alternative view, you don't have to belittle members to get your point across. Play the "the point" not the "person"

Never react to a post but respond (Responding will give you time to think)
(1) Consider the context of what you are saying, put yourself in their shoes, try to understand their point of view.
(2) Consider if your post adds value to the discussion.
(3) When expressing an alternative view, start off by saying “In my opinion …” and try to focus on the issues rather than person.
(4) We are all wordsmiths to some degree & it's easy to incite an emotional, knee-jerk response, creating an emotional outburst.

Friendly atmosphere
Such posts that incite emotional responses tend to undermine the friendly atmosphere often resulting in long running feuds creating factional loyalty to one side or the other.

Hard to detect
"Offending a member is hard to detect" However, some members tend to follow patterns of behaviour, posting to invoke an emotional response, never answering questions directly to justify their position but they "always demand documentary evidence" from others to support their assertions, while offering none in return.

# We all deserve a measured response not the alternative.

How to ask a good question
(a) Ask a detailed question & you will get a detailed response.
(b) Ask a one liner, it deserves a one liner response.

Don't ask one liners
Most member ask questions as one liner, (not all but some) & sometimes their responses are the same, it's unhelpful.

It takes time
It takes a lot of time & effort to give a measured response so all I'm asking if you have a question detail it precisely, let me understand why you don't understand as playing tennis with others is tiresome, boring & more importantly it waste our time.

Repeating
Some members tend to follow patterns of behaviour, posting to invoke an emotional response, never answering questions directly to justify their position but they "always demand documentary evidence" from others to support their assertions, while offering none in return.

Please don't let that be you.

Skate.

SirRumpole said:

As far as I'm concerned you can delete any threads in General Chat that are full of bile as you say, and moderate any posts that are acrimonious or disrespectful. Religion and SSM have had their run anyway, and I can't see many other threads that fall into the bile bucket anyway.

Click to expand...

You can add global warming/climate change to the bile bucket, along with any topic on immigration.

SirRumpole said:

If people are continually disrespectful to others it should be publicly pointed out to them.

Click to expand...

Agreed. But I don't think the disrespect will ever disappear and I don't want to be separating angry partisans all day. Political and religious threads attract angry people looking to vent. They're angry and they're going to let everyone else know. Not everyone is like this, but enough are to make it unpleasant enough to affect the entire mood of ASF.

SirRumpole said:

But politics like it or not is important. Politicians run the world, their decisions affect the financial markets more than any other factor. Would we have had the financial wobbles recently without Trump's trade war with China ? Should we omit politics from discussions even it affects financial markets ? What about interesting and respectful threads like Electric Cars, and the Energy Generation and Storage threads. Is there a more appropriate area to discuss these that may or may not affect people's decisions to invest in Elco's or EV makers ?

There are a lot of other GC threads that have investment impacts, even the veganism thread. What about the potential loss of income for meat producers and potential gains for non meat producers ?

If you would care to ban religion or other social topics entirely that's great, but bagging GC for the sake of a couple of over heated topics seems a bit of an overkill.

Click to expand...

I agree, but all of these topics can be framed in such a way as to be included in the Business, Investment and Economics forum. You have just done it. There are threads on Trump and the Trade War that exist now but people would rather talk about left vs. right than the actual economic implications. Most people don't want to talk about the trade war between the U.S. and China, they want to talk about Trump as a politician and how it's great that he's sticking it to the lefties or other such partisan stuff.

Politics is primarily tribal. So is religion. People choose their tribe and then fight for their tribe. They go to war with the other tribe. That is exactly what happens to politics thread in General Chat. It is mostly partisan talking points repeated ad nauseum with increasingly strident and ugly clashes between members of the partisan tribes. Left vs. right for the umpteenth time with the same arguments repeated over and over again. I'm not against it, I believe in free speech. The only thing that has changed is its visibility. I just don't want it to dominate ASF anymore. When 80% of the threads in New Posts are General Chat threads it damages the viability of ASF which is supposed to be a community focused on financial markets.

I think the question needs to be asked, why has discussion died down in General Chat? Even now, people can start new threads and post in whatever political or religious threads they like. Everyone knows where it is. I think that interest declines when the dogmatists don't have a megaphone and visibility is that megaphone. Take the megaphone away and some people lose interest.

You're one of the reasonable ones and it does bother me a little that I have had to make a decision that disappoints those who have done nothing wrong. If you can hang on for a couple of months I will restore the visibility of General Chat for those who want it in New Posts searches. I intend to move ahead with the forum software upgrade soon and will introduce it before the end of October at the latest. One of the first things I will do is find a solution to allow people who want to see the General Chat threads in New Posts searches to be able to do so. This is the best I can do and I think it is a reasonable compromise.

I'm not particularly disappointed that GC is off "Recent Posts".

I can still watch it and get alerts so that's good enough for me.

I agree that it is not reasonable to allow the OP to edit opening post indefinitely as it screws up the whole thread but is it possible to allow the OP to add a note to the OP as a PS: "see post 123 for an edit to my thoughts"

Anyone reading the OP would then be aware that more info is available at post 123

macca said:

I agree that it is not reasonable to allow the OP to edit opening post indefinitely as it screws up the whole thread but is it possible to allow the OP to add a note to the OP as a PS: "see post 123 for an edit to my thoughts"

Anyone reading the OP would then be aware that more info is available at post 123

Click to expand...

I've added these kind of notes before and am happy to continue to do so if required. I will check if there is a way for the OP (or any poster really) to do it themselves.

Joe Blow said:

I don't mind doing this. I do it on request and have no problem with it if I believe it is being requested for genuine reasons.

Click to expand...

I thought that would be the case …… Problem solved … although I don't think there was a problem

Now, if only I could find that picture so you could shrink (slash remove) it lol

SirRumpole said:

I'm not particularly disappointed that GC is off "Recent Posts".

Click to expand...

Ok, so here's one of my random ideas … (I get one every few weeks) …… (My Doc says medication may fix it) … If anyone has already suggested it, I am now plagiarizing your work … and my apologies.

Anyway, regarding General Threads which may be causing (or perceived to have the potential to create) angst between some of those sharing said thread/s ….

@Joe Blow Is it possible to create/isolate a single thread which REQUIRES those who wish to participate (whether watching or posting) …. the need to "register" their username to gain access to that thread,

and then …… (wait for it)

The contents of that thread be only visible to those registered (and Joe/a moderator of course)

The general surfing public and Members not registered/interested in the subject matter … see nothing but a Heading Any angst and bickering can be done in private between "interested" parties with no superfluous negativity visible on the Forum proper ….. ??

Joe Blow said:

I don't like obscenities. I don't like name calling or personal attacks. I don't like trolls, and I have no time for spammers. I want people to treat others with respect.[B] Those are my standards.[/B]

Click to expand...

Standards! Good stuff. This is very different to a previous statement which was along the lines of "nothing really bothers me", which I don't think was true. Knowing what you like and don't like builds identity which can now be used to shape your new look site. It will be what you want, and it will exclude or minimize what you don't want. I often use harsh language in my posts, and if it means I now get moderated, that's my problem.

Also, if you don't want thugs beating down your door, there are options other than leaving such posts up on ASF. If you felt very strongly about preventing financial scams, you could use other anonymous means to achieve that goal and keep it entirely separate from ASF. The scammers can go and chase their tails rather than you. I wouldn't have a bar of that sort of thing.

barney said:

The contents of that thread be only visible to those registered (and Joe/a moderator of course)

The general surfing public and Members not registered/interested in the subject matter … see nothing but a Heading Any angst and bickering can be done in private between "interested" parties with no superfluous negativity visible on the Forum proper ….. ??

Click to expand...

Not a bad idea.

SirRumpole said:

Not a bad idea.

Click to expand...

Thanks Rumpy ….. You have a few yourself

barney said:

Is it possible to create/isolate a single thread which REQUIRES those who wish to participate (whether watching or posting) …. the need to "register" their username to gain access to that thread,
The contents of that thread be only visible to those registered (and Joe/a moderator of course)

Click to expand...

I feel this goes against the objectives Joe has laid out. Joe's "stated problem" is trying to attract more traffic to the board. Locking things away in secret threads (not indexed by Google) doesn't achieve that for him. And ultimately, we want to create a happy environment where people feel welcome and treat each other with respect. If people feel the need to have a secret fight, I'd suggest ASF isn't the place where that should take place.