War threat in Ukraine

[Telamelo]

Moscow may respond to Western sanctions by opting out of the last nuclear arms deal with the United States, cutting diplomatic ties with Western nations, and freezing their assets, a senior Russian official warned.

The threat on Saturday by former President Dmitry Medvedev came as Russia’s ties with the West sank to new lows over its invasion of Ukraine.

Senior Russian security official issues stark threats to the West

Former President Dmitry Medvedev says Moscow may respond to sanctions by freezing personal assets.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[JohnDe]

What a mess we've got ourselves into. Both Russia and China have no democratic system that allows the people to change governments, both nations have been empowered by our hunger for cheap raw material, goods and labour. Now we're at the point where both countries have weaponised to the point that their confidence of overpowering the west is stronger than our confidence in being able to stop them. Our strongest weapon is sanctions and to stop trade. However, this is also a weapon that could explode in our face.
Create more pain than both Russia and China are willing to accept and we could be forcing some sort of retaliation that resembles 1941:

Responding to Japanese occupation of key airfields in Indochina (July 24) following an agreement between Japan and Vichy France, the U.S. froze Japanese assets on July 26, 1941, and on August 1 established an embargo on oil and gasoline exports to Japan. Background to conflict​

​

Hopefully all world leaders can sit down together and create a united front for the citizens of the world, and bring some rationality to this situation, and the Russian and Chinese people voice that world peace is the only outcome.

Mr Xi may feel comfortable about showing solidarity with Mr Putin because any Western sanctions imposed on Russia will probably have only limited effects on its economic relationship with China. Mr Gabuev says he would expect China to adhere to the legal requirements of any Western sanctions, such as not banking with blacklisted oligarchs. Nonetheless China will find plenty of ways to keep business flowing. Huawei, a Chinese telecoms giant, should be able to sell 5gtechnology to Russia, whereas Ericsson and Nokia, two Western competitors, may be locked out. China’s development banks can lend to Russian enterprises with less fear of running afoul of financial sanctions targeting commercial lending. And the two countries have steadily reduced their reliance on the dollar to settle trade, part of Russia’s efforts to insulate itself from American sanctions.

But there are risks to Mr Xi’s cosying up to Mr Putin. Writing in Foreign Affairs, Jude Blanchette and Bonny Lin of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, a think-tank, argue that a “tighter Beijing-Moscow axis would further encourage China’s rivals to balance against it”. That includes Europe, where attitudes appear to have hardened since February 4th. Jens Stoltenberg, secretary-general of nato, on February 15th described the “two authoritarian powers” as “operating together”.

This perception troubles Chinese analysts. Yang Cheng of Shanghai International Studies University says China worries it could be “treated as Russia’s accomplice”. But he says that perception is the product of the imagination of America and its allies. China’s opposition to nato expansion, he adds, stems from empathy for Russia, in the pressure they both feel from the West.

Mr Yang says this “in no way” means that China supports the current developments in Ukraine. But the West’s tendency to view China and Russia as tied together is “dangerous”, he says. “It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy that will turn the world into a dangerous situation that could be colder and longer than the cold war.” ■

Xi Jinping drew closer to Russia on the eve of war in Ukraine

 

[divs4ever]

ACTUALLY some in the US might think the same after the 2020 elections

Both Russia and China have no democratic system that allows the people to change government

i know a few are searching far and deep looking at the alternatives to OUR two-party preferred system

interesting times , to be sure

those 'world leaders' recently( mostly ) failed to beat a virus ... good luck trying to handle a grumpy gent with a nuclear arsenal ( and a few other war toys to boot )

of course there is a school pf thought that thinks these are all just distractions from the current economic collapse

 

[DannyB0000]

Not that I'm barracking for the Russians, I hope their incursion into Ukraine is another Vietnam war moment for them. I think the current sanctions levelled at the Russians are a double standard. Why didn't the same sanctions apply to Western governments when they illegally invaded Iraq in 2003, shock and awe bombings and again in Afghanistan 2 years earlier. The Americans wanted regime change in Iraq similar to what the Russians want in Ukraine.

Americans lied to the international community about Iraq possessing WMDs to justify invading that country similar to the Russians saying their incursion into Ukraine was a peace keeping mission.

 

[JohnDe]

Not that I'm barracking for the Russians, I hope their incursion into Ukraine is another Vietnam war moment for them. I think the current sanctions levelled at the Russians are a double standard. Why didn't the same sanctions apply to Western governments when they illegally invaded Iraq in 2003, shock and awe bombings and again in Afghanistan 2 years earlier. The Americans wanted regime change in Iraq similar to what the Russians want in Ukraine.

Americans lied to the international community about Iraq possessing WMDs to justify invading that country similar to the Russians saying their incursion into Ukraine was a peace keeping mission.

Some truth in your comments, Iraq war should not have happened. However it did and a murderous dictatorship was removed, and the Iraq citizens given the right to choose their own destiny by cooperation and voting.

 

[Macquack]

ACTUALLY some in the US might think the same after the 2020 elections

Both Russia and China have no democratic system that allows the people to change governments,

There are a few here on ASF that reckon the US is a undemocratic dictatorship. In particular DB008 is hell bent on overturning the 2020 US election result. Good luck with than one.

 

[divs4ever]

Some truth in your comments, Iraq war should not have happened. However it did and a murderous dictatorship was removed, and the Iraq citizens given the right to choose their own destiny by cooperation and voting.

BUT he was the US's murderous dictator friend ( because the US sold those WMDs so he could misuse them inside and outside of his country .. and not a whisper of a sanction for doing so )

until he invaded Kuwait everything was just peachy , and AFTER Kuwait they realized he was the best leader the West could tolerate , so let him stay longer

well 2020 was so off the rails you must wonder how long have the elections been rigged ( less obviously ) and by BOTH sides , take for example Dr. Ron Paul's run for President

 

[divs4ever]

There are a few here on ASF that reckon the US is a undemocratic dictatorship. In particular DB008 is hell bent on overturning the 2020 US election result. Good luck with than one.

overturned ??

abandoned , and try to make sure NO ONE cheats in the election ( at any level )



but don't worry there had been plenty of dubious result well before 2020 , it was just 2020 was so obvious ( had Sanders won , many Americans would have grumbled , but accepted the results more easily )

 

[JohnDe]

There are a few here on ASF that reckon the US is a undemocratic dictatorship. In particular DB008 is hell bent on overturning the 2020 US election result. Good luck with than one.

I think that some just don't understand how the US political system works, and maybe ours as well. Both two very different systems, but everyone's an expert on both.

 

[divs4ever]

I think that some just don't understand how the US political system works, and maybe ours as well. Both two very different systems, but everyone's an expert on both.

what i understand is neither system is working properly , currently

we have politicians when we need STATESMEN ( and women ) , the wrong people have got the steering wheel ( and many would agree the consultants need a new broom through them as well )

 

[Captain_Chaza]

There is no other way to avoid a Nuclear WAR here
or In the very near future

Putin must Go!
AND
He must be GONE in a great hurry!

Has Anybody got any good ideas?

 

[rederob]

Putin must Go!
AND
He must be GONE in a great hurry!

Has Anybody got any good ideas?

Could this work:

 

[divs4ever]

There is no other way to avoid a Nuclear WAR here
or In the very near future

Putin must Go!
AND
He must be GONE in a great hurry!

Has Anybody got any good ideas?

there is a very big chance removing Putin would increase the risk , you have 80 former intelligence officers in the Russian Parliament , so there is a solid chance a replacement could be more hawkish than Putin

and non-military man Medvedev was the one who ordered the tanks into Georgia , so he probably isn't a soft-touch either

careful what you wish for

a power vacuum with that many nukes in the toy-box is REALLY dangerous

 

[MovingAverage]

there is a very big chance removing Putin would increase the risk , you have 80 former intelligence officers in the Russian Parliament , so there is a solid chance a replacement could be more hawkish than Putin

and non-military man Medvedev was the one who ordered the tanks into Georgia , so he probably isn't a soft-touch either

careful what you wish for

a power vacuum with that many nukes in the toy-box is REALLY dangerous

Same **** happened when the US took out Saddam—things got a lot worst when he was gone. Better the devil you know…

 

[Captain_Chaza]

I Promise You
"This time will be different!"

There is no end in sight if Putin lives

 

[JohnDe]

what i understand is neither system is working properly , currently

we have politicians when we need STATESMEN ( and women ) , the wrong people have got the steering wheel ( and many would agree the consultants need a new broom through them as well )

That depends on how you lean politically.

The Australian system is robust and works quite well, there is no signs of a coup d'état, no rioting on the streets, no revolution. We have the occasional healthy protest and street marches, but that is what democracy is about - the freedom to express our views. The US riots on capital hill was a shock and very scary but it was only a few thousand people from a population of 250 million people not happy with the outcome of an election. The conspiracy theorists on the run shouting that the sky is falling.

The majority of those that complain are the ones that did not get the person they voted for, or believe that they pay too much tax, or don't agree with changes, and so on. It is the same old that has happened for milenia.

There is no other country that I would rather live in than one with a democracy such as ours, the UK, the USA, France, and so on.

 

[JohnDe]

 

[basilio]

Markets open tomorrow. The Russian stock market will be slaughtered. The financial squeezes on Russia will crimp trade and investment. The situation in Ukraine is (literally...) still explosive.

On the upside there seems to be a wave of euphoria around the world with the plucky defiance of Ukraine holding fast against overwhelming odds.

So which way wlll the markets run? Into the red with fears of widespread economic turmoil or holding fast with positive sentiment around the Ukraine resistance ? Thoughts ? Reactions ?

 

[DannyB0000]

Some truth in your comments, Iraq war should not have happened. However it did and a murderous dictatorship was removed, and the Iraq citizens given the right to choose their own destiny by cooperation and voting.

True but what gives one country the right to invade another because they don’t approve who their political leader is and how their citizens vote, we can’t force democracy down their throats.

How would would we feel if China invaded Australia for example and removed our political leaders in favour of Communism ?. China installed a puppet leader instead with pro Beijing views similar to Hong Kong.

Kim Jong Un is an evil, murderous person to but no one is going to try pick a fight with North Korea with nukes involved

 

[MovingAverage]

Markets open tomorrow. The Russian stock market will be slaughtered. The financial squeezes on Russia will crimp trade and investment. The situation in Ukraine is (literally...) still explosive.

On the upside there seems to be a wave of euphoria around the world with the plucky defiance of Ukraine holding fast against overwhelming odds.

So which way wlll the markets run? Into the red with fears of widespread economic turmoil or holding fast with positive sentiment around the Ukraine resistance ? Thoughts ? Reactions ?

Interesting article in the WSJ over the weekend indicating the fed is now unlikely to bring in the previously expected rate rise in March because of the Ukrainian war. That is why the US market popped on Friday. So my guess is that this week may not be too bad on the ASX as I suspect the market is more concerned about a rate rise than the Ukrainian war.