WAM - WAM Capital

[JohnDe]

Cripes, look at WAM's chart! It's now below the nadir of the Wuhan lab leak ASX crash.

Held

WEEKLY All Data
View attachment 158355

I dodged a bullet. Looked very close at investing in WAM/WAX 2019-2020, delayed and missed the drop to about 1.15 and then got distracted during the rise and fall. Looks like it is rising again.

 

[divs4ever]

i bought WAX back in September 2011 and it has been a nice return on investment

but WAM did not scratch the correct itch i had , i preferred two WA-focused LICs ( both now taken-over )

 

[Gretsch]

well Geoff and crew certainly aren't out the back smoking when it comes to collecting fees and out-performances

and to boot Geoff and crew have bold predators on several LICs i have held ( that doesn't always create new friends )

i hold WAX ( 'free-carried' )

Still don’t understand why he gets bashed so much. Is it because he’s making money? Nothing wrong with that,
At the end of the day, business is just that. Friends? In business?? Nah.

I hold WAM and WLE because I choose to. I don’t see the problem with fees, at the end of the day, I get a decent dividend from them.

I don‘t hold any other LIC. (Yes I do, OPH.) In my limited knowledge of them, I haven’t come across one that’s performed any better, even fees aside.

 

[divs4ever]

Still don’t understand why he gets bashed so much. Is it because he’s making money? Nothing wrong with that,
At the end of the day, business is just that. Friends? In business?? Nah.

I hold WAM and WLE because I choose to. I don’t see the problem with fees, at the end of the day, I get a decent dividend from them.

I don‘t hold any other LIC. (Yes I do, OPH.) In my limited knowledge of them, I haven’t come across one that’s performed any better, even fees aside.

while he is making the $$$ and deserving the bonuses , all fine and good ( and even allowing for a few years when active managers are at a disadvantage )

and WAX have been very nice for me over the last 12 years

but his fixation on discounts to NTA and then weaponizing that to take-over rivals ( that i hold ) ( sometimes offering a LIC i have no interest in as a substitute ) .. THAT is where i have the issue

( i LOVE buying a nice LIC at a discount to NTA )

 

[Chipp]

WAM on my list of soldown specials to buy , Its time

 

[finicky]

WAM LIC is a hunk of junk. As is WAX. Bought WAM 5 years ago and including dividends it still probably owes me something. Down -29% from my buy price.

Maybe you're attracted by the dividend yield but if you're wrong about a bottom being near the div net of capital loss won't be impressive.

Better to buy quality at a fair price than junk at a cheap price. Others here have shown that there are better LICS than any in the Wilson stable and ETFs are probably better than all of them. Too much goes in fees.

Decade monthly chart below compares WAM against better performing AFI, ARG and MIR. All are LICS.

Holding WAM and WAX

MONTHLY Decade

 

[Chipp]

WAM LIC is a hunk of junk. As is WAX. Bought WAM 5 years ago and including dividends it still probably owes me something. Down -29% from my buy price.

Maybe you're attracted by the dividend yield but if you're wrong about a bottom being near the div net of capital loss won't be impressive.

Better to buy quality at a fair price than junk at a cheap price. Others here have shown that there are better LICS than any in the Wilson stable and ETFs are probably better than all of them. Too much goes in fees.

Decade monthly chart below compares WAM against better performing AFI, ARG and MIR. All are LICS.

Holding WAM and WAX

MONTHLY Decade
View attachment 179598

Its a trade not an investment and i will more than likely beat the average annual Super return inside 8 weeks , ive traded it at least 10 times previously . Its that reliable i wrote an algo to trade it and its has a win rate north of 90% in a 20 trade period . Buy and Hold only is for those without an ounce of Alpha in their blood . Dont take it personally , i realise the markets are a hobby for most . I am fully invested in the markets not a handful of stocks .

 

[divs4ever]

WAM LIC is a hunk of junk. As is WAX. Bought WAM 5 years ago and including dividends it still probably owes me something. Down -29% from my buy price.

Maybe you're attracted by the dividend yield but if you're wrong about a bottom being near the div net of capital loss won't be impressive.

Better to buy quality at a fair price than junk at a cheap price. Others here have shown that there are better LICS than any in the Wilson stable and ETFs are probably better than all of them. Too much goes in fees.

Decade monthly chart below compares WAM against better performing AFI, ARG and MIR. All are LICS.

Holding WAM and WAX

MONTHLY Decade
View attachment 179598

i hold WAX ( since September 2011 )

now like many boring shares , the trick is to buy them when they are cheap ( not only at a discount to NTA , but when yielding a good div. return ) i got mine under 70 cents a share

now WAX scratched an itch , i wasn't good at , scanning through the small caps including areas i wouldn't normally go

WAM with it's focus on larger cap. stocks wasn't able to do something i could do myself ( if i chose to ) so i never found it attractive ( and even sold two other LIC holdings rather than be given WAM in a take-over deal

 

[finicky]

@divs4ever I don't know how you pull off all these well timed buys but whatever it is keep doing it.
I bought WAM and WAX at premiums to book value because I was sucked in by their brand and hype.
I'm not clever and alpha like Chipp who is probably a war hero as well.

 

[divs4ever]

@divs4ever I don't know how you pull off all these well timed buys but whatever it is keep doing it.
I bought WAM and WAX at premiums to book value because I was sucked in by their brand and hype.
I'm not clever and alpha like Chipp who is probably a war hero as well.

well in 2011 i was just a beginner ( but it turned out to be a great time to start )

the next trick is to work out what you want

in 2011 i needed growth ( but not at the risk of blowing the nest egg ) after all i had only ten years to learn and build a retirement fund ( and that learning bit is a tough curve even now 12 years later )

now one under-appreciated skill is was gifted was my mother ( a widow then ) was exposed to various MLM ( multi-level marketing aka pyramid schemes ) so i got to be able to cut through the hard-sell and those dreams of eternal riches

WAX took acceptable risks in the small caps the rest of the Wilsons offerings didn't offer anything i wanted



BTW i always look at historic div. yields AS WELL predicted div. yields , and ( Wilson's ) div. smoothing makes that easier than some

BTW instead of WAM i eventually bought BKI which while it doesn't shoot out any lights has plodded along by slashing fees ( and not rotating out of stocks so much )
am up 3.6% on BKI despite buying in July 2016 so the capital gain lovers would be really disappointed

and recently bought into AUI when a holder ( or two ) dumped them when CSL went for a tumble

sometimes knowing when a LIC has a large holding in a stock ( say BHP ) when BHP tumbles the LIC ( or ETF ) tumbles worse

just another cheap trick for your tool-bag

 

[Bellcose]

Maybe you're attracted by the dividend yield

An attractive dividend yield higher than the norm can draw the punters in who are looking for income. When I saw the franking on the last dividend was reduced to 60% (effectively a pay cut) I do wonder if it may cause those who hold some concern.

Over 20 years, WAM has a TSR of 5.9% pa but that incudes minimal in the way of capital gain (actually a slight reduction.) A relatively obscure LIC (DUI) which has a similar enterprise value returned a TSR of 7.9% pa over the same period. A high yield does not necessarily equate to good performance when it comes to a long-term view.

As for ETFs, well I'm happy with VGS paying $2.17 for its last distribution this FY making a total of $4.41 for the year.

 

[finicky]

Your fees at work

• Geoff Wilson – the voice of retirees, the peoples champion, has now spent nearly $50m on property in recent times – as reported in the AFR, with a focus on Sunshine Coast trophy properties.

 

[Bellcose]

Your fees at work

• Geoff Wilson – the voice of retirees, the peoples champion, has now spent nearly $50m on property in recent times – as reported in the AFR, with a focus on Sunshine Coast trophy properties.

Considering that, for the half-year December 2023, the total of the management and performance fee was $17.5m, I guess he can scrape up enough for the property buys.

I suspect most of the retail holders are only looking at the high yield and so are not sufficiently motivated to look at the accounts to discover how much they are paying for that dividend.

 

[Chipp]

Got a lunch date with Geoff Wilson in a months time , if anyone needs a question answered i am happy to try and get an answer , if i can ....

 

[divs4ever]

i bought some WAX back in 2011 @ 70 cents , that scratched an itch i had ( and it still does ) i don't know how he doesn't it but it produces the results

about my only gripe is listing the top holdings alphabetically instead of by percentage ( so i can monitor concentration risk ) but several rivals now do the same thing ( list alphabetically ) so it will probably brushed aside

cheers

i hope you enjoy the meeting ( and lunch )

 

[divs4ever]

Considering that, for the half-year December 2023, the total of the management and performance fee was $17.5m, I guess he can scrape up enough for the property buys.

I suspect most of the retail holders are only looking at the high yield and so are not sufficiently motivated to look at the accounts to discover how much they are paying for that dividend.

am well aware the Wilson's staff won't starve to death , but they do produce the goods in an area i can't do similar cheaper

but i also hold several LICs with other managers that scratch different itches for me ( and make a return for me )

one danger Wilson's faces is that they grow so big that they can't move nimbly ( without moving the market while they are still re-positioning )

but they want to be BIG and that is a risk they take

 

[finicky]

if anyone needs a question answered ..

How does he live with himself?

Held

 

[Gretsch]

am well aware the Wilson's staff won't starve to death , but they do produce the goods in an area i can't do similar cheaper

but i also hold several LICs with other managers that scratch different itches for me ( and make a return for me )

Agree, I don't have a problem with fees so long as they produce the goods, that's what you pay for.
They're doing better than some managed funds I hold and I can buy and sell at opportune times. Just gimme the money.

 

[Gretsch]

How does he live with himself?

Held

Probably in great comfort!

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Got a lunch date with Geoff Wilson in a months time , if anyone needs a question answered i am happy to try and get an answer , if i can ....

you'll get an answer, whether it's a good answer or an obfuscation remains to be seen.

I've several questions.
1. Does he feel embarrassed being called the "king of closed end funds" as in this article?

From Ackman to AFIC, fund manager discounts persist

Bill Ackman’s failed attempt to float the largest ever closed-end fund shows that a high profile and even a solid track record isn’t always enough to win.

www.afr.com

(whereas it's patently obvious there are bigger more established LICs. Maybe not as adept at self-promotion, though)
2. Does he feel that his workload is too great? I ask this because at the GVF 2023 AGM, as a Director, he looked distracted, bored, unengaged, and left as soon as possible. This is not saying that his earlier efforts with Miles Staude are unappreciated but maybe it's time to pass the baton?
3. As someone frequently quoted to look to "buy a dollar of assets for 90c, if not 80c", how does he feel about the persistent discounts of a few underscale LICs such as WAR and WMA?
4. Does he remember saying in response to a question, that he'd wind up WMA if it was still under NTA after 5 years? This was at a presentation pre-Covid and hence close to 5 years ago. I realise the old BLA shell was only under Wilson control from Oct 2020..