WAM - WAM Capital

[divs4ever]

Central banks will not provide 'easy money ' forever , you simply cannot keep your credibility by saying your economy is strong and growing while maintaining easy credit for years ,

EVENTUALLY business will have to go back to the money markets to fund expansion , would any sensible business want the government to be their chief financier , now one question i haven't seen answered is have the newer commercial banks lost their ability to assess risk properly given the recent history of Federal Governments throwing them a life-line when they hit trouble

 

[Iggy_Pop]

I have WAM in my portfolio to gain exposure to small and mid cap shares. Have to admit the performance has dropped recently but these things happen and generally they swing around over time. I hold many Aussie large cap shares through ETFs and LICs, but wanted some diversication. I also have a few International ETFs and a bunch of Australian REITs to balance out my portfolio.

For me, owning WAM saves me the time and effort to reseach, buy and sell the mid/small cap shares. From my own experience, they have done a better job than me, and yes the fees are 0.8% but comparitively, the small/mid cap shares have not been a great hunting ground but WAM has been good. As I am in retirement, the dividends and franking credits are nice too. WAM to hold some dividends back to smooth out the dividend flow, and some of the LIC take overs seem to be about getting some franking credits

And I also agree with the comments, VAS, AFI, ARG etc are all good shares to hold for the long term, but they are mainly large cap.

Iggy

 

[finicky]

Wow, my small WAM holding has just gone under water after holding for more than 3 years (bought April 2019). I see Geoff Wilson has been littering the announcements with App 3Y's of substantial on market purchases, all to no avail so far.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

• WAM used to run at about a 20% premium to NTA, as announced at the start of each month. This has been trimmed.
• Also, there's a bit of a sectoral rotation. The S&P/ASX Small Ordinaries is down nearly 16% year to date, while its big brother the ASX200 has dropped a more modest -3.6%. Some former small-cap darlings have led the descent, and if these are stocks in the 3Ys, then the active money can calculate a roaming NTA ahead of the monthly.

EDIT: I note MIR is also on the slide, the May NTA is $2.85 whereas it had been in the low to mid 3's for quite a while before. It is still holding, but for how long?

 

[divs4ever]

Wow, my small WAM holding has just gone under water after holding for more than 3 years (bought April 2019). I see Geoff Wilson has been littering the announcements with App 3Y's of substantial on market purchases, all to no avail so far.

yes , that is the risk of an aggressive player like Geoff , the question is do you stick ( and maybe average down if it slides say 10% , below your entry ) or start looking for a graceful ( profitable ) exit

i hold WAX ( bought @ 70c back in September 2011 ) now SO FAR i look fine , but given the style i half-expect to face the same quandary in the future

and of course many simply faint at the GW fee structure

good luck

i am still puzzled over the recent GW strategy with the WAM acquisitions now had he acquired MLT , yes i could see the synergy , but surely PNI was the logical vehicle for some of the take-overs

 

[Dona Ferentes]

and of course many simply faint at the GW fee structure

correct. Avoid

i am still puzzled over the recent GW strategy with the WAM acquisitions now had he acquired MLT , yes i could see the synergy , but surely PNI was the logical vehicle for some of the take-overs

SOL took MLT,

 

[divs4ever]

correct. Avoid

SOL took MLT,

yes but WAM taking over MLT made more sense to me

both WAM and SOL would have offered scrip deals , it would be interesting to hear from members that were MLT holders if they would have preferred WAM over the choice they made

( i hold SOL )

PS i hold WAX ( with an equally high fee structure ) but WAX so far , has performed to counter-balance those fees and the higher risks WAX takes BUT that can't go on forever , one day i am likely to face the same choices as finicky is facing today

 

[finicky]

@divs4ever I'm not considering selling, although I will be disinclined to buy any Wilson products in future. I only hold 2,000 WAM so not a big deal. I didn't even look at MERs before the revelations on this thread. As said previously I was uncritically sucked in by the allure of the Wilson brand + the dividend yield. I also have a sml WAX holding.

 

[Belli]

The concept of WAM possibly taking over MLT instead of SOL doing it is nothing more than a bubble from an overworked and fevered imagination. Who were the substantial holders of MLT but SOL, ARG, and AFI. Combined blocking vote and WAM's investing style does not match with a more staid approach.

MLT was offering a substantial dividend with the merger plus it's price really went uphill on the merger announcement. That would be a trader's delight.

Then MLT did get Hunter Hall on the cheap when GW was also punting for it.

 

[divs4ever]

@divs4ever I'm not considering selling, although I will be disinclined to buy any Wilson products in future. I only hold 2,000 WAM so not a big deal. I didn't even look at MERs before the revelations on this thread. As said previously I was uncritically sucked in by the allure of the Wilson brand + the dividend yield. I also have a sml WAX holding.

i absolutely noticed the WAX fee structure before buying BUT for WAX they were ( and still are at MY buying price ) producing the returns

like you a have a relatively small holding in them , but i understood the high activity higher risk strategy , which offset my original desire to hold ( most ) stocks long term ( 10 years plus )

luckily for me i didn't fall for the GW salesmanship and managed to avoid several other opportunities to by other GW offerings ,

BTW the Wilson brand isn't the only LIC like that still available on the ASX ( high portfolio turnover-higher risk )

BTW i hold several other LICs with different styles/strategies that i am NOT good at ( a bit like hiring a specialist for a specific task ) and the passive ETFs don't tackle

 

[divs4ever]

The concept of WAM possibly taking over MLT instead of SOL doing it is nothing more than a bubble from an overworked and fevered imagination. Who were the substantial holders of MLT but SOL, ARG, and AFI. Combined blocking vote and WAM's investing style does not match with a more staid approach.

MLT was offering a substantial dividend with the merger plus it's price really went uphill on the merger announcement. That would be a trader's delight.

Then MLT did get Hunter Hall on the cheap when GW was also punting for it.

i thought GW might have offered either WAM or WLE scrip but yes i can see how some would not have been attracted by GW's performance fees and high MER ( especially if you were patient and 'cherry-picked' ARG or AFI at good entry prices )

 

[JohnDe]

Another on my price watch list has popped up. This is looks underpriced.

Time for some research.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Another on my price watch list has popped up. This is looks underpriced.

Time for some research.

Well, the NTA at end of April was $1.76 and shares were trading around $2.00; since then the general market has ground down so I would expect the new NTA to be even lower. If WAM is trading above $1.85, then it's not underpriced, imo

 

[Iggy_Pop]

I have decided to move on from WAM, it was one share I thought would look after it self, but with the NTA declining along with the share price, decided to move on with PL8 as the replacement. WAM seem to be focussed on bonuses from raising the funds under management, where apparently they made a good profit with some LIC takeovers, but the NTA seems to be in decline. Decembers NTA report will be a good indicator, but in the mean time I have moved on. Good luck to WAM shareholders, maybe it is a good time to buy in, but the dividend reserve doesn't have much left, so if dividends cannot be sustained, we will see a share price drop. I have liked the dividend from WAM for a number of years, but will be interesting to see how it goes down the track.

Iggy

 

[monkton]

I have decided to move on from WAM, it was one share I thought would look after it self, but with the NTA declining along with the share price, decided to move on with PL8 as the replacement. WAM seem to be focussed on bonuses from raising the funds under management, where apparently they made a good profit with some LIC takeovers, but the NTA seems to be in decline. Decembers NTA report will be a good indicator, but in the mean time I have moved on. Good luck to WAM shareholders, maybe it is a good time to buy in, but the dividend reserve doesn't have much left, so if dividends cannot be sustained, we will see a share price drop. I have liked the dividend from WAM for a number of years, but will be interesting to see how it goes down the track.

Iggy

I sold the last of my WAM a few months ago, been steadily selling down for a while, felt a sigh of relief that I'd moved on from it for all the reasons you've mentioned here. Was one of the first Lic's I'd bought many years ago.
Think I did a comparison & realised my returns, on a total return basis, would have been much better if I'd invested in VAS or one of the 'boring' old school Lic's instead. Still hold WLE & small holding in WMI.

 

[finicky]

Cripes, look at WAM's chart! It's now below the nadir of the Wuhan lab leak ASX crash.

Held

WEEKLY All Data

 

[frugal.rock]

Geoff's asleep.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

I don't use Twitter (not my style, life's too short) ... there's a story about GWAO now plunging headlong into it, of late.

Rear Window

Geoff Wilson wants Bill Ackman’s very online notoriety​

Funds management and dividend guru Geoff Wilson has logged on.
Myriam Robin and Mark Di Stefano
Apr 8, 2024



Is that really funds management doyen Geoff Wilson being heckled by randoms on the site formerly known as Twitter? Yes, yes it is.
After several years lurking as an anonymous user, a trip to New York meeting the likes of Twitter power user Bill Ackman (who manages a leading hedge fund in his spare time) convinced the Wilson Asset Management founder that he was really, really missing out. And so, three weeks ago, @GeoffWilsonWAM was born. And hasn’t it been rather distracting.

Wilson has done as you’d expect of a finance guy and philanthropist, mixing Financial Times and Bloomberg pieces, engagement bait, along with the requisite inspirational quotes. “I prefer #Buddha’s quote: If you knew the power of giving, you would not let a single meal pass without sharing some of it”, he recently tweeted. #wowgeoff #sograteful.
What makes Wilson’s arrival quite peculiar though is that he has also dived feet-first into the crazed corners of #FinTwit, that gathering of bored banker types hiding behind pseudonyms who keep the social media platform permanently open on their second or third screens. At Wilson’s arrival, they’ve gone hog wild.
An avalanche of franking credits content has been directed at him. The airing of the Boomer slurs. And the posting of countless memes (often featuring images of Wilson’s juxtaposed head), including one whose smutty origin would defile a financial newspaper.

Wilson’s taking it all in stride. “If you’d asked me who Gigachad was yesterday I’d have had no idea,” he said. He looked it up before forming his response, naturally.
“It’s all about nuances,” he noted. “In markets, you have to learn to communicate the right way.”
“In the meme market, you either crack or play the game. I’m trying to understand the rules of engagement. And I’m a novice – a total novice. But I do know a lot more than I did three weeks ago.”

Wilson hopes to amass some 80,000 followers, and views it as a way to ensure the fund has “a strong voice”. As Bill Shorten (who fell victim to WAM’s franking credits campaign) would attest, WAM already had one. Still, this is certainly a new audience, a world away from packing exhibition centres with dividend-hungry retirees drawn for the insight and the Scotch Fingers.

Wilson Asset Management, it must be said, manages billions of dollars. Wilson stands atop an empire that now employs both ex-RBA Governor Phil Lowe (that’s #BubbleOPhil online) and former NSW premier Mike Baird, and finds plenty of time to bait the likes of Nick Bolton for fun already. Does he have time for this too?
It doesn’t take much, he insisted. And anyway, “learning about anything is fantastic”. “To me it’s invigorating, it’s exciting.” And the quality of financial information on the platform, Wilson reckons, is really quite high.

But is it worth the risk? Blame it on the dopamine or the adrenaline, but Ackman (1.2 million followers) recently spent all night bashing out a 5000-word tweet. Which neatly illustrates that mainlining Twitter content remains the surest way to give a normal person brain worms (also see: Elon Musk).
Mind you, Ackman is also leveraging his following to raise a $US10 billion ($15.2 billion) fund aimed at retail investors. If he pulls that off, it’ll have been worth every all-nighter. Who’d blame Wilson for pondering the possibilities.

 

[Gretsch]

Why are people so unkind.

 

[divs4ever]

Why are people so unkind.

well Geoff and crew certainly aren't out the back smoking when it comes to collecting fees and out-performances

and to boot Geoff and crew have bold predators on several LICs i have held ( that doesn't always create new friends )

i hold WAX ( 'free-carried' )