Wage Rises

[krisbarry]

I was making the comparison between say a family/close-knit company and greedy bastard corporations like McDonalds, you dill. Had no reference to you or your company. In fact I beileve you would be a nice boss to work for as you have explained in previous posts

But anyway you rant and rave and go on your little tangent...You keep beating your chest again, I own 50 house, I build this and that and I know all these people, so what? Good luck to you!

Has no meaning to me, and doesn't affect/concern me in the slightest, doesn't make you a better person, than anyone else mate.

 

[krisbarry]

Look, since we (tech/a and myself) cannot get along on ASF, I think the best way to solve this would be to ignore each others posts. I am happy not to reply to any of tech/a posts in future.

Sorry mate, you will no longer get a response from me.

Hmmm who is the next victim on tech/a hit list...glad its not me! LOL

Hold onto your hats boys he's ready to pounce on your post and rip it to shreds!

 

[mime]

Maybe you should listen and try understand his point of view. He sounds very experienced in practical life running business and stuff, something that you don't have. You might learn something.

 

[Smurf1976]

I think BOTH of you are right.

Smaller, decent employers would benefit hugely from a more flexible system as would employees BUT there will be plenty who abuse it.

The big winners will likely be those in higher skilled areas who can negotiate better pay and conditions. It is obviously desirable to be one of these but by definition we can't all be above average.

The big losers will likely be those who can't outperform in their jobs. For example, a train driver either drives the train properly or they don't. There's not really much middle ground in that job so if you are doing satisfactorily now then it's hard to become more valuable to the employer unless you change careers altogether.

The acid test in my opinion will be whether someone doing the EXACT same job is better off or worse off in 5 years time. Only time will tell.

I'm not really into conspiracy theories but it has occurred to me that this could just be a plan to prevent a wages breakout at a time when inflation is clearly gaining momentum. In my opinion wages are the missing link in the inflation chain so far but pressure seems to be building. Mustn't draw attention to all that currency being created out of thin air. Must make them think wages cause inflation and blame the unions...

 

[Smurf1976]

Maybe you should listen and try understand his point of view. He sounds very experienced in practical life running business and stuff, something that you don't have. You might learn something.

Agreed. I've learnt quite a lot from tech's posts despite a disagreement or two. But likewise I agree with quite a bit of what Krisbarry has to say too.

No point only reading things you agree with. Best to look at BOTH sides of the argument I think. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

 

[mime]

I recently negotiated consistent and convenient hours that revolve around my studyies with my employer(Woolworths). I managed this because I work hard and proved I was an asset to the company. I get what I want and the employer (manager) gets what he wants. It's win/win.

Negotiation is not so bad is it?

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

I recently negotiated consistent and convenient hours that revolve around my studyies with my employer(Woolworths). I managed this because I work hard and proved I was an asset to the company. I get what I want and the employer (manager) gets what he wants. It's win/win.

Negotiation is not so bad is it?

Good work Mime!

I agree if you can show your value to your boss you will have more to negotiate with.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

John
I own the company.
Retaining Wall Industries (Civil) Pty Ltd.

Strangely we specialise in the construction of Retaining Walls.
We handle all of Concribs work (They are a Brissy based manufacturer and contractor) in SA.

John/Tech,

I had a look at your website. Good work producing a booklet about retaining walls.

Snake

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Kris,

I agree with a lot you are saying, but, get a grip man and get out there and make it happen. Nothing comes for free.

When will the generations of "everything must be given to us" disappear. Handout nation is upsetting those who don't have and those who won't make it happen.

Read some motivational books and get motivated.

Snake

 

[krisbarry]

Ummmm...did you miss something man...I do make it happen. I am happy in my current job and working my current hours. Between 20% to 250% of my wages come from penatly rates, hence the reason I am worried about my future. I can only do what I can do mate, the rest of it is up to the bosses.

 

[krisbarry]

I recently negotiated consistent and convenient hours that revolve around my studyies with my employer(Woolworths). I managed this because I work hard and proved I was an asset to the company. I get what I want and the employer (manager) gets what he wants. It's win/win.

Negotiation is not so bad is it?

Worked for Woolworths for over 5 years when I was much younger too. I did exactly the same negaotiated working hours. They are a very flexible company. But the real test will come later when, IR rules are implemented, you will not only have to negotiate hours, but wages, penatly rates, leave loading etc. What if you say no to an extra shift later, then find out the boss has taken away some other benefits, very possible this kinda tic-for tac nature will prevail.

 

[krisbarry]

Many members on this board seem to have the "Old Sckool" approach to work. Stay with a company, build up your experience then negotiate.

Those days are gone.

Companies nowday change so rapidly, contracts are won or loss, business change hands, workers are sacked, then re-hired etc

I come from a generation of job hoppers, we move on from company to company. My brother and sister are the same and many of their friends do exactly that too.

I don't think I have ever given a toss about any of the companies I have worked for, I go to work earn my wage end of story.

Here is an example. About 3 years ago, 24 employees, myself included were hired with this company to do contract work for a certain private hospital. Went along to the induction day, got the uniform and were hired. The next day got a phone call saying that all 24 workers were sacked. Another company had under-cut the contract and been awarded it. What about us? Sounds like the company couldn't give a stuff.

This is the kinda scenario that face generations of workers nowdays. There was no way of negotiating anything, no matter how much experience you had, wouldn't make any difference. The negotiations had been completed by management and all the workers suffered.

 

[tech/a]

Many members on this board seem to have the "Old Sckool" approach to work. Stay with a company, build up your experience then negotiate.

Those days are gone.

Companies nowday change so rapidly, contracts are won or loss, business change hands, workers are sacked, then re-hired etc

I come from a generation of job hoppers, we move on from company to company. My brother and sister are the same and many of their friends do exactly that too.

I don't think I have ever given a toss about any of the companies I have worked for, I go to work earn my wage end of story.

Here is an example. About 3 years ago, 24 employees, myself included were hired with this company to do contract work for a certain private hospital. Went along to the induction day, got the uniform and were hired. The next day got a phone call saying that all 24 workers were sacked. Another company had under-cut the contract and been awarded it. What about us? Sounds like the company couldn't give a stuff.

This is the kinda scenario that face generations of workers nowdays. There was no way of negotiating anything, no matter how much experience you had, wouldn't make any difference. The negotiations had been completed by management and all the workers suffered.

And in 10 yrs time you and people like you will be in exactly the same position as you are today. Complaining about exactly the same things you are today.
Yet those who take the "Old School" road you'll hear less from.

Companies cannot survive on transient labour only---they like their employees need stability they seek it and reward it as do valued employees.

Kris clearly you have stated your position (above in Blue).

You and those like you CHOOSE to be in this group.

If you want things to turn around for you.
GET OUT OF THIS GROUP and its MENTALITY.

If you dont wish to----then stop expecting to be treated any differently than your being treated now.Stop asking or expecting something that simply wont be given to this group of people.

Why would ANY employer give you the same benifits,wages and or stability over and above an employee that actually gives a "Rats" about their company--big or small your attitude would shine out like a beacon in any job interview.

Your life.

 

[Milk Man]

Was at work today and in the tea room was the following flyer:

...What is not guaranteed by law under John Howard's WorkChoices for new workers and workers changing jobs

* Penatly rates
* Overtime rate
* Meal breaks
* Rest breaks
* Public Holidays
* Annual leave loading
* Shift Loading
* Allowances

All of these conditions, which Australian's have enjoyed for decades, will now have to be negotiated with employers.

Wheres my gravy train of rewards? If I dont make a profit why should I have to pay this crap out? I still have to pay extra to get/keep good staff. The crap ones dont get sacked either- they get their hours cut back and pay goes to minimum wage. No one has had to be sacked, no cases of unfair dismissal.

 

[mime]

First of all Woolworths is a company bigger then 100 employees so I will keep the current rights after the new IR laws are passed. You should probably should understand the issue before you argue against it.

Second. I've noticed the a spilt between work ethics for a between the younger workers. The workers that work hard are getting the roles of responsiblility with in the store while the others arn't. They are setting themselves up for better employment oppertunities in the future. The others that arn't. They may end up working there for the rest of their working lives and becoming heavly relient on their employer and become Labor voters because it's all they have. It's about attitude towards work.

And Lastly I have little loyalty to my employer. If I was offered better conditions/wages somewhere else I would go there in a blink but right now my boss is offering me what I want and I have no need to change.

 

[tech/a]

First of all Woolworths is a company bigger then 100 employees so I will keep the current rights after the new IR laws are passed. You should probably should understand the issue before you argue against it.

Second. I've noticed the a spilt between work ethics for a between the younger workers. The workers that work hard are getting the roles of responsiblility with in the store while the others arn't. They are setting themselves up for better employment oppertunities in the future. The others that arn't. They may end up working there for the rest of their working lives and becoming heavly relient on their employer and become Labor voters because it's all they have. It's about attitude towards work.

And Lastly I have little loyalty to my employer. If I was offered better conditions/wages somewhere else I would go there in a blink but right now my boss is offering me what I want and I have no need to change.

Mime.

Wouldnt you at least discuss it with your current employer before blinking?
Giving them the opportunity to reward you for value seen by another employer---mind you sometimes the value offered to some cannot be seen by others.

 

[mime]

I would have no need to discuss it with the current employer because they can't negotiate higher wages and they are restricted to certain employment conditions. Plus it's good working at different places. Learn new stuff.

 

[ghotib]

Tech, Do you have a "Human Resources" manager / department, or do you deal face to face with all your employees?

Thanks,

Ghoti

 

[Smurf1976]

The whole debate surrounding the IR reforms seems to be about money.

What about safety? Surely going home safe and healthy at the end of the day is far more important than earning 10% more working for someone who cuts corners with safety? I'm quite happy having to work longer than average hours for roughly average pay because my employer has a very strong safety policy in an industry where the risks are significant.

What about life outside work? I work hours such that 10 days paid work is done over a period of 9 days so every second Friday is a day off. A good idea IMO and no doubt it benefits the employer too since nobody has a need to organise their private business during work time as often happens if you are always at work when banks, lawyers or whoever is open. That ought to lead to higher productivity than 9 to 5 Monday to Friday.

What about job security? Personally, I would much rather have some certainty about ongoing employment than earn a few $ more. In my opinion security does far more to increase overall happiness in life than a bit of extra money would.

As for this idea of constantly changing jobs, no thanks! I accept that many workers have no choice but it must be costing the employers an absolute fortune. Obviously if varies between industries but in my case it takes about 3 years to get someone who is already a qualified tradesman fully trained up in the detail of the work and able to work without supervision. The work is specialised and there simply isn't anyone out there who has experience and the consequences of a mistake are such that risks have to be minimised. Alternatively, an apprentice could be taken on but that takes 4 years. Management simply couldn't afford a high staff turnover, hence their focus on things which encourage those looking for stability such as safety, working hours etc rather than simply offering a bit more money and attracting the itinerant types.

 

[tech/a]

I would have no need to discuss it with the current employer because they can't negotiate higher wages and they are restricted to certain employment conditions. Plus it's good working at different places. Learn new stuff.

Interesting.

I was told once that I couldnt do something due to certain restrictions--this had influenced others in not entertaining that which i was interested in doing---so were others but each time they got to this seemingly impossible stumbling block.
I investigated ways of dissolving the "conditions" in such a way that both parties benifitted.
The result was far in better in the end than I could have anticipated.

Learning new stuff is the spice of life but I've never forgotten this piece of wisdom.

"Become an EXPERT in something--"

People beat a path to the door of experts--people pay well for experts--be an expert in something that most people need--be an expert in an area where there are few experts.


Ghoti

Face to face there are only 16 of us.