VRE - View Resources

[Goldmann]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and of all of the experts, I'm not too sure anyone saw this coming...

At the end of the day, alot of people have been watching this for a long time, especially with FP pumping it up at most opportunities... I for one saw that once they managed to show that they could actually produce 10,000 a month - then perhaps they had turned the corner (and at not a bad time with Gold at record highs)... a high number of people would of bought around the 18-19c mark after the market downturn when these 'positive' figures were released around aussie day... in hindsight (again a wonderful thing) I guess waiting for a quarterly return of 30,000 achieved first might of been the way to go...

Anyway - the risk with these speccies has been mentioned... alot of people jump on these type of companies for the possible higher returns when they actually 'kick'. if you want your standard 8 - 10% per annum pick BHP, a bank or another 'blue chip' - but if you want the opportunity to pick a winner (or let Fat Prophets do it for you) - then surely you have to take it on the chin when one of them has a embolism and dies... you knew what you were getting into.

I live in the eternal optimism that they have frozen the securities because they have struck oil, and are just trying to get their permits in order!!!

*abit of humour cant hurt at a time like this! GL to all holders! May the force be with us...

 

[jman2007]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and of all of the experts, I'm not too sure anyone saw this coming...

At the end of the day, alot of people have been watching this for a long time, especially with FP pumping it up at most opportunities... I for one saw that once they managed to show that they could actually produce 10,000 a month - then perhaps they had turned the corner (and at not a bad time with Gold at record highs)... a high number of people would of bought around the 18-19c mark after the market downturn when these 'positive' figures were released around aussie day... in hindsight (again a wonderful thing) I guess waiting for a quarterly return of 30,000 achieved first might of been the way to go...

Anyway - the risk with these speccies has been mentioned... alot of people jump on these type of companies for the possible higher returns when they actually 'kick'. if you want your standard 8 - 10% per annum pick BHP, a bank or another 'blue chip' - but if you want the opportunity to pick a winner (or let Fat Prophets do it for you) - then surely you have to take it on the chin when one of them has a embolism and dies... you knew what you were getting into.

I live in the eternal optimism that they have frozen the securities because they have struck oil, and are just trying to get their permits in order!!!

Fair point Goldmann

Hindsight is a great thing, and FP do appear to have been promoting this stock heavily. Investors have a right to feel aggrieved if they are paying a brokerage firm money to make the right choice for them, because these firms are supposed to know more than the average Joe.

It really makes me wonder about some of the individuals who are running mining companies these days, and I'm talking about former night club owners, self-made millionaires or whatever. These are the kind of turkeys who revel in the deal-making, the speculative aspects of the market (and do very well out of it) and know how to raise funds, but know next to nothing about the day-to-day running of an operation (if it even interests them) which requires a cool, calm head and a thorough knowledge of the industry.

I say the next time the VRE turkeys poke their heads over the parapet they deserve to get em' shot off.

jman

 

[cuttlefish]

I haven't followed VRE and can understand the dissappointment of holders. Looking through the reports I don't think its obvious that they were in serious trouble and the quarterly was quite upbeat. The jan production announcement would definitely have been a warning bell given it implied a 3 million operating shortfall and they're only on 4 million cash at end of quarter, but with only a day of trading to digest the jan production announcement before the VA - which most smaller investors wouldn't get a chance to do because they're not glued to screens waiting for asx releases, they're earning a living elsewhere - it would be understandable that there'd be a lot of people getting caught short.

The only possible lesson would be to include wide auto stops on any investment but when you see the stop farming that goes on with quality stocks even that has its risks.

That being said - I have no doubt that the company directors will be as upset about this as everyone else. People don't spend time putting these projects together and bringing them on stream unless they're very committed and enthusiastic about achieving a positive outcome. They will have been as dissappointed about the grade let down as everybody, and putting a company into administration is a difficult but sometimes necessary decision.

As Goldmann has said above, this is why its known as the speculative end of the market, and is why the returns are so high when you get it right.

 

[YOUNG_TRADER]

Being that this is the first stock I am actively watching / monitoring that went into Halt then Suspension (voluntarily or not) - can the shareholders expect to see a cent back if things go pear shape?

For example: Lets assume the company goes into liquidation, it is my understanding that the priority is: employees & creditors - after which come shareholders? - If so what can shareholders expect? (If anything at all?)

Anyway good luck to those holding.

Well if BMO re-cap is anything to go by I think we can expect sweet f#%* all back

I still am in disbelief that this company can go from bragging in its qtrly to this, heads must roll for this and ASIC better investigate

And to think VRE was un-hedged and going to be debt free, the only explanation is that there was no gold

 

[dj_420]

Well if BMO re-cap is anything to go by I think we can expect sweet f#%* all back

I still am in disbelief that this company can go from bragging in its qtrly to this, heads must roll for this and ASIC better investigate

And to think VRE was un-hedged and going to be debt free, the only explanation is that there was no gold

I think the geology of the area was grossly mis-understood. The production rates were maintained at roughly the same levels but the grade of gold dropped throughout the processing cycle.

This to me indicates that the gold within the pit was of a far lower grade than indicated. They were supposed to be hitting a higher grade section apparantly when grades dropped right off.

I got in and out of this one within a couple of days around two weeks ago. The sentiment from the qtrly turned sour very very quickly from mgt point of view.

 

[Bushman]

MCR announcement out stating that the 'conditions' of sale of Carnilya Hill have not been met and hence the sale has been postponed for the moment.

So it sounds like short term voluntary admin until the sale can proceed. So it can be inferred that MCR's actions, or lack of action in this case, has sent VRE into administration. A case of not putting all one's egg in the same basket. Also not sure then if all this speculation about the grades at the mine are correct. Guess we will have to wait for VRE's mgt to confirm or deny whether Bronzewing remains a going concern.

Wish they would state what the bl**dy conditions are and which condition has been breached.

 

[dj_420]

Also not sure then if all this speculation about the grades at the mine are correct.

I don't think so , looking back through the quarterly it states they had produced 25, 406 ounces without even breaking even. They had 9.5 million in operating costs and 9 million in revenues.

So it seems even if they had reached the 30, 000 ounce target it may have just broken even. The month of January saw a shortfall in gold produced due to a decline in the grade mined (not due to the amount of tonnes processed).

This to me indicates that the geology of the resource has not been identified correctly as they were supposed to be reducing costs and mining higher grade sections rather than increasing costs and mining lower grades than designed for.

IMO they had a high cash burn even before the shortfall, with the shortfall this would surely start to question the whole economics of the project.

 

[oldblue]

Could it be that some technicality hasn't been met and that MCR will now re-negotiate with the administrator?

 

[gfresh]

oldblue: of course that price wouldn't be a little less than $25m in liquidation sale ... It would be nasty for VRE, but it would be smart business for MCR..

Who knows what the exact reason why the deal was delayed (and the breached conditions), but either way VRE shouldn't have been that close to the bone as to have to rely on this one deal for survival. Gold production can be a tough business even at the best of times..

 

[captluthra]

Hi Guys, I am new to this forum.

Made substantial investments in VRE.

I have recently migrated from NY and do not know whats gonna happen in this VRE fiasco. Could any one give an idea on what to expect. I did call the Lenny guy at the FP however he was not very helpful.

Regards.

 

[Pat]

Hi Guys, I am new to this forum.

Made substantial investments in VRE.

I have recently migrated from NY and do not know whats gonna happen in this VRE fiasco. Could any one give an idea on what to expect. I did call the Lenny guy at the FP however he was not very helpful.

Regards.

I've been wondering this too. I've written off my $1900 lol! investment in VRE. I took a punt and slam, sock, pow!!!... bashed by batman.

 

[jman2007]

I think the geology of the area was grossly mis-understood. The production rates were maintained at roughly the same levels but the grade of gold dropped throughout the processing cycle.

This to me indicates that the gold within the pit was of a far lower grade than indicated. They were supposed to be hitting a higher grade section apparantly when grades dropped right off.

I got in and out of this one within a couple of days around two weeks ago. The sentiment from the qtrly turned sour very very quickly from mgt point of view.

I had a chat today about VRE with a work colleague of mine, who is himself a Director in several resource companies. We were both of the opinion that there is a very strong case for Market Deception here. With a robust grade control program in place, the chief Mine Geologist would have known that grades were a problem throughout January, possibly even in late December. I would also find it hard to believe that this information would not have been known by the Board by mid Jan at the latest. Yet they chose not to release it until the last minute for reasons only they themselves will know. Ultimately, the consequences, but not necessarily the root cause of the problem itself, must lie with them.

jman

 

[Miner]

I agree 100%.
But who will catch the thief ?
ASIC is just an utopian body who only react when there is hullah mullah in market and lot of publicity. Do you think they do not know? Consider now ASX is itself a commodity so ASIC is not an impartial spectator any more.

Regards

 

[kransky]

I don't think so , looking back through the quarterly it states they had produced 25, 406 ounces without even breaking even. They had 9.5 million in operating costs and 9 million in revenues.

So it seems even if they had reached the 30, 000 ounce target it may have just broken even. The month of January saw a shortfall in gold produced due to a decline in the grade mined (not due to the amount of tonnes processed).

I disagree (but please correct me if you know i am wrong) but plants have a capacity based on the amount of ore they can take as input. So they have planned all along to produce 30k oz per month. This would have been based on the plant capacity and the average grade of the ore available.

So, if they were producing close to 30k oz per month then they must have had ore available that was around the correct grade. BUT they were not able to make the mine cash flow positive because they could not keep operating costs down.

If my take on this is correct (and i am not sure, its just how i look at it) then they should be able to continue trading once/if the sale goes through and they can get rid of their debt and then concentrate on the better high grade ore sources and forget about the low grade sources that have been hurting them.

What is critical now is the condition that is not being met in the nickel mine sale...

 

[dj_420]

I disagree (but please correct me if you know i am wrong) but plants have a capacity based on the amount of ore they can take as input. So they have planned all along to produce 30k oz per month. This would have been based on the plant capacity and the average grade of the ore available.

So, if they were producing close to 30k oz per month then they must have had ore available that was around the correct grade. BUT they were not able to make the mine cash flow positive because they could not keep operating costs down.

If my take on this is correct (and i am not sure, its just how i look at it) then they should be able to continue trading once/if the sale goes through and they can get rid of their debt and then concentrate on the better high grade ore sources and forget about the low grade sources that have been hurting them.

What is critical now is the condition that is not being met in the nickel mine sale...

I agree with all this, perhaps we mis-communicated. However I was under the belief they were already mining the higher grade material to lower costs. Which means that there has been a very bad interpretation on the actual contained resources in the deposit.

I understand that the plant design will only allow to process a maximum amount of ore regardless of contained gold grade. So if plant is operating at capacity and gold grade drops in the ore been processed final gold product at the other end of circuit is reduced.

What I thought had happened is that due to a reduction in the grade been mined we have seen a drop in ounces produced. This is more concerning to me than if we had processing issues in the plant. It seems that the higher grade reefs have already been mined and there is lower grade material left which places the project in doubt.

 

[happytown]

not privvy to the vre board and its decision-making, indeed speaking only to VA generally,

its usefulness has been alluded to above, there is at least one other (use): sub-ss 588H(5) and (6)

cheers

 

[kamranb]

not privvy to the vre board and its decision-making, indeed speaking only to VA generally,

its usefulness has been alluded to above, there is at least one other (use): sub-ss 588H(5) and (6)

cheers

Looks like it that VRE is going to trade as normal soon!! Is that true? If yes, when and how much they r going to open for?

 

[prawn_86]

Looks like it that VRE is going to trade as normal soon!! Is that true? If yes, when and how much they r going to open for?

Where did you get this information?

No one could possibly know what they would open for, as no information has been released to the public since yesterday...

 

[kamranb]

Where did you get this information?

No one could possibly know what they would open for, as no information has been released to the public since yesterday...

One of my friends who is also a shareholder (or i should say victim) in overseas emailed me and said that he read this article that VRE is going to re-open soon as soon as they come up with an agreement with their re-investor !! I don't know whats the go there anyway?

 

[cookiedude]

Was thinking it could be interesting to post how much $ people have invested and how much they are going to loose if VRE go pear shape. I personally bought 10,000 shares @ 0.13 cents (Yes - Everyone selling, I got to tempted to get in cheap - next day trading halt ). So potentially total lost = $1300.