VRE - View Resources

[jaffa]

Perhaps more than the CEO in trouble.

There is a Board in place who are meant to be taking care of shareholders interests.

If it proves to be the case that the information that was released through January was not appropriately disclosive or misleading they have some explaining to do!!!

jaffa

 

[richmoneymagnet]

oh sh*t,

I was supposed to retire on this stock Im freaking
nowwjhat so i do? hope and pray
scared sh**less

 

[jonojpsg]

Hey all, totally agree with all comments made so far...unbelievable really

Can someone explain to me though what voluntary administration is though? In particular with relation to a previous holding I had in Tassal, who went into voluntary admin, I lost my holding, then six months later they come out of voluntary admin, relist on the market and are now worth 4 times what they were then??? How is this possible, that my holdings can disappear then essentially reappear in someone elses pockets???

Would really appreciate someone's informed opinion of this, just so I know if the same thing is likely to happen here.

 

[cookiedude]

Something is telling me that the "Sale of Carnilya Hill" is not as imminent as they want us to believe...

 

[treefrog]

Management is working to understand and resolve the grade short-fall.
this bit where directors effectively say we don't know why and we will have to think about it is major worry - akin so admitting we don't know what we are doing yet but hope to find out

as I said two days ago I felt this wording cast a shadow over management competance - I think with so many new smalls around these days there just isn't enough people who know what they are on about.

and pursuing this aspect it is probable that management realize this and have erred on the side of caution - which incidently they are bound by law to do - and have called in some help

there are huge penalties these days for trading while insolvent and that may be all it is - waiting for the cheque from MCR, it hasn't bobbed yet and then this low production number, what would you do as an inexperienced director - take precautions??

to all ASF members holding I feel really sorry - particularly if you have been silly and are top heavy in these

At this point I tend to lean on the probably just temporary side - don't jump out that window yet!

 

[porkpie324]

According to MCR the Carnilya Hill operation is expected to produce 5000 tons of Nickel per year thats bout $150mil, there MCR figures which are generally conservative, thats without further resource updates. Now to buy the balance of the operation for 25 mil Mcr must have thought it was xmas. I think in hindsight the writing was on the wall then for VRE, it was a fire sale. Now that announcement plus VRE directors upbeat opinion of the gold operation is what drew my attention to them. thank goodness because of present general market conditions I held off buying them.porkpie

 

[eddyeagle]

The whole situation stinks and it seems that FP were as oblivious to the issues as the rest of the shareholders! Unbelievable that things can go downhill so quickly! Hopefully they can turn things around! Reminds you of the importance of DIVERSIFICATION!

 

[Pat]

DIVERSIFICATION!

And risk management!
After all VRE is a speccie.

Wonder what will come of this, and how long this will take to sort out?

 

[TMM]

A definition of Voluntary Administration:
Voluntary Administration is a mechanism for companies in financial distress to obtain some breathing space from its creditors.

The purpose is to allow the company to avoid liquidation and to have the company administered in such a way that maximizes the chances of the company and its business continuing; or if it can't continue, to allow a better return for the company's creditors and shareholders than would result from the liquidation of the company.

 

[TMM]

Came across a useful document that clarifies what options are available when a company goes into Voluntary Administration. Here is the link - hope you find it of value:
http://www.millerharris.com.au/articles/article04.pdf

At this stage it may not be the end of the company, just a means to sort out its financial affairs. Let's hope it all works out to the benefit of shareholders

 

[jama_kj]

Very disappointing and I feel for all holders. Hopefully it is just a short term liquidity problem that can be solved with the sale of C Hill. I was very lucky and sold my shares for a slight profit last Friday, despite the qtrly not showing any sign of such problems, an absolute stroke of luck on my part.

Good luck holders.

 

[chops_a_must]

How the **** is this possible?

The company closed out its hedge books and once it got the $25m from MCR for Carnilya would have had no debts and net $8.5m cash as per all the company presentations

If the directors have lied they should go to jail,

Either way these ****ing scumbags should go to jail

I can't believe how they can go from being so positive, we've turned a corner to this,

Hang em!!!!!!

Yeah, the management have some serious explaining to do.

They have been lying on the phone, at their AGM and in their previous announcements. This is going on that ever increasing scrap heap.

I repeat what I said in October.

If you invested in this, without heeding the warnings, you have no-one to blame but yourself. The optimism I've read on this thread since coming back is insane.

The fundamentals were kaput for a long time, the mine is a complete dud. The main ore body was meant to be reached late November and early December. Due to stoping problems it took a long time to reach it, and in the end, it's obviously what cost them. They can't get to what they think is there, and what they can get isn't what they expected.

I had been invested/ trading in this for a long time, have followed it for well over a year. I would never have touched this since I sold, and tried to get other people to see the problems. On another site, I said the breakdown target was below 0. Looks like I may be right.

Even if they clear their debt right now, they don't have anything to keep them from being insolvent in the very near future.

The only hope would be to sell the plant, or lease it. CRE have been mooted to have wanted to use the plant for some time.

And I wont be investing in gold companies in this region ever... unless it is totally compelling, because a lot of the mines in the region are bordering breaching environmental regulations anyway. Which is another big problem.

Cheers,
Chops.

P.S. and yes, the management should go to jail. There has been insider trading right from the top, if you go back through the announcements and charts, you will see. And if they do get convicted in these matters, I may get some more money.

 

[jman2007]

Dear oh dear...

What a sorry mess this company seems to have got themselves into.

Looking at their past announcements the Directors seem to have done a good job at fooling everyone, including the Market, private investors and analysts. If this is indeed a case of market deception, then the repercussions will be severe.

This whole operation now appears to be have been very high risk from the beginning, and the financial model so sensitive and tightly balanced, that any slight fall in productivity would have disastrous effects. From what I can gather, the cutback in the existing open pit was chasing supergene enriched Au in the oxide layer, and various lodes were interpreted to plunge steeply and continue at depth. Who knows why the Jan grades were so disappointing?...perhaps these ore-bodies pinched out at depth, or as Chops said "They can't get to what they think is there, and what they can get isn't what they expected."... might sum it up nicely.

I think if you read the Jan quaterly between the lines it is clear that they were in trouble imo. They knew that operating costs were going through the roof in December, and the stripping through July-Sept wasn't even able to keep up with the mill. Let me tell you, if you have a 2.5Mtpa mill not running at capacity you are going to pay for it in the a$$e sooner or later. They kept feeding the market tit-bits of information talking about their fanatstic monthly gold production to keep the market interested, but they probably already knew costs were way out of control, and that they had bought a lemon of a project.

Yes the enthusiasm on this thread while well-meaning was probably completely without basis. Investing in companies with no previous track record of production, is damn risky. If more poeple had abided by this rather than debate the finer points of the chart then we might not have so many upset investors on our hands.

A good example of a current high-cost production is the Barrick Mill at Granny Smiths, utilising ore from Wallaby underground. Wallaby is a world-class resource with a multi-million ounce resource, and the Granny's Mill is a 3Mtpa job, in good knick too I might add. The only problem is, during the last quater of 2007, operating costs were close to $700/oz, making it one of the most expensive operations in Australasia. But a company the size of Barrrick is able to contain and cushion these operating costs, a company the size of VRE?...no way, a dead duck.

Well good luck to all holders.

jman

 

[Sean K]

If more poeple had abided by this rather than debate the finer points of the chart then we might not have so many upset investors on our hands.

Actually jman, the chart is the only thing that stopped me from buying. If it was such a good investment why had it been going down for yonks. Oh, because it was a turkey, far different from the 'fundamental' view of the management.

 

[Electra]

I repeat what I said in October.

If you invested in this, without heeding the warnings, you have no-one to blame but yourself. The optimism I've read on this thread since coming back is insane.

The fundamentals were kaput for a long time, the mine is a complete dud. The main ore body was meant to be reached late November and early December. Due to stoping problems it took a long time to reach it, and in the end, it's obviously what cost them. They can't get to what they think is there, and what they can get isn't what they expected.

I had been invested/ trading in this for a long time, have followed it for well over a year. I would never have touched this since I sold, and tried to get other people to see the problems. On another site, I said the breakdown target was below 0. Looks like I may be right.

Even if they clear their debt right now, they don't have anything to keep them from being insolvent in the very near future.

The only hope would be to sell the plant, or lease it. CRE have been mooted to have wanted to use the plant for some time.

And I wont be investing in gold companies in this region ever... unless it is totally compelling, because a lot of the mines in the region are bordering breaching environmental regulations anyway. Which is another big problem.

Cheers,
Chops.

P.S. and yes, the management should go to jail. There has been insider trading right from the top, if you go back through the announcements and charts, you will see. And if they do get convicted in these matters, I may get some more money.

Chops,

While I appreciate your contribution to this thread in trying valiantly to provide an objective balance to one-eyed optimism here and the same on another forum - and for that matter, am appalled by the attacks on your character by some of the less mature posters there - I have to correct a few comments in your post here.

Noone in the region has anything that would truck to BW. Leasing the plant in-situ cannot possibly be an option. The sale of the plant may be an option but I am not aware of anyone in Australia requiring a plant this size for gold - maybe CDU could use the front end crushing / grinding but that's it.

CRE are located near Laverton, a few hunderd km away - I don't know where you got your info from that they would be interested as they probably have an operations cashburn problem of their own and there is not the geographic synergy you imply.

Another statement I have to take issue with is that other operators in the region (who?) are close to being out of compliance with their environmental requirements. That would be a list including Thunderbox (Norilsk), Grannys (Barrick), Plutonic (Barrick), Sunrise (Anglo), Lawlers (Barrick) and Agnew (Goldfields) and CRE - I would be very surprised if these international companies and CRE are not fully aware of their environmental compliance requirements and meeting or exceeding them. Please elaborate on this claim.

 

[General Grievous]

Chops,

While I appreciate your contribution to this thread in trying valiantly to provide an objective balance to one-eyed optimism here and the same on another forum - and for that matter, am appalled by the attacks on your character by some of the less mature posters there - I have to correct a few comments in your post here.

Noone in the region has anything that would truck to BW. Leasing the plant in-situ cannot possibly be an option. The sale of the plant may be an option but I am not aware of anyone in Australia requiring a plant this size for gold - maybe CDU could use the front end crushing / grinding but that's it.

CRE are located near Laverton, a few hunderd km away - I don't know where you got your info from that they would be interested as they probably have an operations cashburn problem of their own and there is not the geographic synergy you imply.

Another statement I have to take issue with is that other operators in the region (who?) are close to being out of compliance with their environmental requirements. That would be a list including Thunderbox (Norilsk), Grannys (Barrick), Plutonic (Barrick), Sunrise (Anglo), Lawlers (Barrick) and Agnew (Goldfields) and CRE - I would be very surprised if these international companies and CRE are not fully aware of their environmental compliance requirements and meeting or exceeding them. Please elaborate on this claim.

The Thunderbox environmental compliance is well regarded by the govt actually. If the company wants something (i.e. clearing/disturbing ground permit,) it is generally approved within days due to the good historical track record.

Plus, there is another Au mill sitting there waiting to be sold once the dust settles from the takeover....

 

[chops_a_must]

Chops,

While I appreciate your contribution to this thread in trying valiantly to provide an objective balance to one-eyed optimism here and the same on another forum - and for that matter, am appalled by the attacks on your character by some of the less mature posters there - I have to correct a few comments in your post here.

Noone in the region has anything that would truck to BW. Leasing the plant in-situ cannot possibly be an option. The sale of the plant may be an option but I am not aware of anyone in Australia requiring a plant this size for gold - maybe CDU could use the front end crushing / grinding but that's it.

CRE are located near Laverton, a few hunderd km away - I don't know where you got your info from that they would be interested as they probably have an operations cashburn problem of their own and there is not the geographic synergy you imply.

Another statement I have to take issue with is that other operators in the region (who?) are close to being out of compliance with their environmental requirements. That would be a list including Thunderbox (Norilsk), Grannys (Barrick), Plutonic (Barrick), Sunrise (Anglo), Lawlers (Barrick) and Agnew (Goldfields) and CRE - I would be very surprised if these international companies and CRE are not fully aware of their environmental compliance requirements and meeting or exceeding them. Please elaborate on this claim.

I had heard about CRE perhaps wanting to use the mill from a CRE worker, the same who gave me the info about the problems at bronzewing. I wouldn't have been relying on that as a holder though, because if they wanted it, they would have used it by now.

The environmental compliance problems are in relation to the South African companies you have there. They are fully aware of the environmental complicance requirements, but know they wont have their licenses revoked. It's totally contemptuous, their attitudes. But given the Magellan fiasco, they feel they can get away with almost anything without adverse consequences. (Just like BHP spilling lead from port storage whilst exporting from Cannington) Huge turnover in OH&S and Environmental officers from these mines. I guess they realise people don't like being sand blasted after all.

 

[cookiedude]

Being that this is the first stock I am actively watching / monitoring that went into Halt then Suspension (voluntarily or not) - can the shareholders expect to see a cent back if things go pear shape?

For example: Lets assume the company goes into liquidation, it is my understanding that the priority is: employees & creditors - after which come shareholders? - If so what can shareholders expect? (If anything at all?)

Anyway good luck to those holding.

 

[treefrog]

Actually jman, the chart is the only thing that stopped me from buying. If it was such a good investment why had it been going down for yonks. Oh, because it was a turkey, far different from the 'fundamental' view of the management.

I agree fully - I also was prepared to hop aboard when the chart turned.
What had me interested in this as a penny stock was the hype (including fat prophets) that was generally in the market and the co reporting
for the record, I trade on a combination of fundamentals, co ann. and basic charts. and what the basic charts said was extremely simple and very very obvious - I am in a solid downtrend, and there is no indication that you should buy since the uptrend broke in july.
In fact daily a significant increase in volume since Oct 07 confirmed down was locked in "until further notice"

nice chart here confirming all this but 10% over site posting limit

 

[jman2007]

Actually jman, the chart is the only thing that stopped me from buying. If it was such a good investment why had it been going down for yonks. Oh, because it was a turkey, far different from the 'fundamental' view of the management.

Well my point being that a lot of people seemed to have looked at the chart in isolation and drew a much different conclusion than yourself, that 14-15c was a "really cheap entry" (or words to that effect) and the sp must surely "head north again". A combination of piecing together various statements from the company (sure, not always an easy thing to do) and the chart performance may have provided a much stronger suggestion that all was not well here.

jman