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Victorian Fires

We have burn offs in Winter and Spring. We dont get much rain though, as I keep banging on about. Usually all done by December 1st. And I wondered who had been a naughty boy Should have known.

The path of most fires can be predicted according to terrain and wind strength. The time to run is not just before the fire hits; yet that is the time that most seem to make up their minds. We evacuate in advance for floods, why on earth not for fires! And why should CFS people risk their lives just to save someone's house? Does anyone else think that is a poor choice of priority?
 


Exactly, in case of preparation for fire we have to have on top of all other preparations place where we can hide away from radiant heat, with independent breathing air supply.

Several metres thick layer of soil can effectively stop radiant heat and air can provide couple of scuba diving bottles.

Dreaded asbestos is fantastic heat insulator and instead of ripping it up and burying, we could incorporate it sealed in some material to build fire-safe rooms several metres underground.
 


Agree, why should they risk their lives to save property, it's just wrong, bomb them with water but if it's too dangerous just let them burn.

Bush fires can change direction without notice and move faster than you in a car or not, people should have been told to get the hell out of these places and at very least the clearing of bushland around townships has to be on the agenda from now on and the the greenies can go elsewhere for their power trips.
 
i have family members in kinglake, they stayed and fought the fires off their home, lost sheds and all fencing but kept their house in the end.

it went right over them.

plenty of homes on their road did not make it.. she describes one side of the road to kinglake "gone" the other side has some structures standing..

her husband is a senior fire officer and together the family fought the fire alone..

i am pleased the outcome was how it turned out for them, but i couldnt say how lucky they are... no power, no water, and no communication in the region with mobiles on home phones.. pretty scary stuff.. tougher than me im afraid.. amazing..
 

Thanks for sharing that, I'd say your relatives are very lucky indeed it could easily have been different, like for so many others.

Knowing bushfires and how they act I would have left, it's just too unpredictable.
 
I don't want to turn this into another one of Smurf's power threads, but:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/08/2485586.htm?section=australia

The incident controller for the Glendonald Road fires near Traralgon, Steven Walls, says there is still a risk the fire could reach the Loy Yang Power Station
Now, Loy Yang (including the gas turbines on the same site) accounts for about a third of Victoria's generating capacity and nearly half its actual production of electricity.

If the plant were destroyed, then we'll have a major power shortage for the next several years. $ billions to re-build it plus the rather obvious risk if the associated coal mine catches fire.

WHY wasn't a decent fire break been put in place around such a critical piece of national infrastructure before there was an actual fire? It's not as though there's no precedent for Latrobe Valley power plants being hit by bush fires so it should have been foreseen.
 
the fact they stayed and lived is a miracle really.

its catastrophic, and the locals are in deep shock.. no one knows how many died, 550 homes lost and a majority were in the kinglake region

i cant get hold of my sister but i am told she is ok.. and they survived the fire storm.. her an her daughter fought one side of the property, her husband alone on the other.. their plastic water tanks melted.. so no water and no electricity.. just devastation all round.. imho the experience of my brother in law, his cfa training, helped them stay alive, but bravery.. i am humbled by them to stay in that environment,, totally humbled beyond words.. thank christ we are not facing a funeral.. its truly a miracle to survive that firestorm and have it pass over you..
 
My heart goes out to all those affected by the bush fires in Australia. Truly a very devastating few days of summer.

CanOz
 
My heart goes out to all those affected by the bush fires in Australia. Truly a very devastating few days of summer.

CanOz

Yes Can me too a sad day for many.................
 
best way to describe it, 2 families stayed to fight, they each only have one neighbour now.. all properties there were raized.. total devistation all throughout..

amazing.. miraculous!
 

This has been a terrible disaster, with CFA and local brigades stretched way beyond breaking point. All the talk by Vic Fire Authorities about "sufficient resources" and "adequate fire plans" being in place THIS time around, has once again proven sadly to be mistaken.

In fact, many local CFA and weather bureau people themselves were warning this was shaping up to be a potential disaster - and they were right. Why was not more proactive use of our fine Defence Personnel made in this so-called "1 in 100" year event?

I'm sure the Defence Forces could and would have been able to help out in a significant way both before and during this catastrophe, if only they had been asked by the State & Fed governments - if they had the foresight.

For instance, squadrons of Blackhawks might have been deployed to ferry people out of isolated towns, rather than have locals trying to escape by driving out (and subsequently dying) along heavily forested roads. Then there's the loads of Army transport trucks, bulldozers, manpower that MIGHT have been set up, just in case things got out of control??? I'm not saying EVERYONE of the poor souls who died this time would have been saved, but surely with such a potential catastrophe looming, why not have those ADDITIONAL forces made available? I'm absolutely certain the Blackhawks in particular could have made a substantial difference if asked..

Being ex-Army Aviation myself, I'd guess most Defence personnel would have been itching to help out with this disaster right from the get-go as events were unfolding, but beaurocratic red tape is always a problem. Rapidly moving events om the ground always seem to completely outpace belated pen-manship. Our own squadron of Kiowa choppers & Porter STOL fixed wing aircraft were on standby at Oakey when the 74 cyclone & floods hit Brisbane in January of that year, but we were never called in en-masse, which we all found highly frustrating.

Instead, I believe just one R.A.A.F. chopper squadron was belatedly sent (as well as some local military personnel and vehicles from Enoggera). Only a couple of our Army choppers went in much later, after about a week to offer a little assistance. Really, we were very surprised and a bit miffed that we & many of the other R.A.A.F. units for that matter, never got the call to assist in those desperate and following days.

Since that experience, I have the impression the Fed Gummint only considers deploying Defence personnel and equipment as a last resort - like Rudd now approving this - but generally AFTER the main event has occurred.

Maybe a more proactive approach could be considered in the future, when all the planets once more line up to create a "perfect fire-storm" scenario.

RIP victims.



aj
 
Unbelievable.. My thoughts are with those that have left this world.

Hopefully everybody out there can chip in a few dollars to help these communities recover.
 
Remember news reader Brian Naylor ?

His wife died at Kinglake and he's missing.

Also reatives in Beechworth told us they've been given 2 hours to get out.
 

I'm not so sure i agree here. Fire is unpredictable at the best of times. If the g'ment mobilised the Army even time a 40+ degree day( or 6 ) happened then they would be on full standby every other day of summer.

If you are going to live in these communities you must be prepared. You must have a fire plan. If your fire plan is to get out when the fire is x kms from your home then so be it. But have a plan, i did, when i lived 45 kms from Bendigo near Talbot. The north wind scared the hell out of me.

Australia is more extreme in this case than any other place on earth, we must learn to respect fire and get the heck out of its way.

CanOz
 
Here in N.Queensland our thoughts are with you all who are suffering loss in the fires.

gg
 
May I strongly suggest people make donations to the Red Cross website for the Victorian Bushfire Appeal 2009. I just donated $100 myself and would highly encourage everyone on here to do the same.

Cheers everyone, take care.
 
Before we all start complaining that there should have been more hazard reduction burning, shouldn't we find out how much did get done and what factors affected that. There's a very big drought on people, and it's lasted through several winters. I know there have been years in the NSW Blue Mountains when there was hardly any time available for safe hazard reduction burning because the bush, was too dry and at least one wild fire got started when a hazard reduction burn got out of control.

As for keeping vegetation green. There's a very big drought on people. When water gets scarce you have to make choices about what gets some and what doesn't.

I'm not saying people couldn't have prepared better, but let's not leap to conclusions just yet. How about those of us not directly affected allow for the possibility that at least some of the people who died were not stupid and did make preparations. Sometimes you just can't prepare for what actually happens.

Ghoti
 
Hi Guyz

This is really a tragic day. I live in Ferntree Gully just before the dandenongs and all last night i could smell the smoke coming through my windows.

I have a mate the lives in Healsville and last night he told he wasn't allowed to leave because it was too dangerous, and one of his poor neighbours lost his Home and 27 horses, this is going to be so tragic for the Fauna/Flora of Victoria we already have enough endangered species in this state.

Thank god though that nearly all of the people from Marysville have made it out with there lives at least. God, Marysville was such a nice place I used to go camping along the Stevensons River, so sad.

And by the looks of it, the death toll has has now risen to 84, 9 more than Ash Wednesday. And it was just 4 hours ago that they were saying that the death toll could reach 40 I knew that was a bit optimistic.

I will say a prayer for the lives lost and hope that the death toll doesn't go too much higher, but they are already saying that its going to exceed 100.

Spartn

:viking:
 
Partially people are themselves responsible for the ultimate price they paid.

It is obvious to me that some overestimated their chances of survival, others fell victims of poor judgements of those who make calls in the family, community.

Ultimate >we will be all right mate< attitude.

Surely more property would be lost, but not a single human life had to be scarified in flames.
 
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