question for the fire fighters....I am near the yarra river, about 500 yards away.... about 5 klms from Melb central...what do you think of my plan to walk/ run to the river...there is a bike track which follows the river...and bunker down there???? ps cannot swim well enough to jump into the river....and with small dog with me...
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You are right of course. The outcomes are a given. I can only hope that the spotlight may be put on the aftermath of the fire and the relatively new phenomenon where politicians and others deliberately manipulate the highly charged emotions of people when they are most vulnerable.
These things have to be seen to be believed. I am a regular watcher of the "The Insiders". Anyone watching this show yesterday would have noticed, in the segment where Mr Rudd was trying to lay the blame on the Opposition for preventing assistance to the fire victims by opposing the stimulus package, that the head-nodders who are seated behind the front bench were nodding furiously in agreement.
Prospector
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It was in The Australian. I read it too. It seems head office (war room) knew of no significant fires or deaths until quite late Saturday.
I referred to the same article in posts #405 and 412
Oh, the bloody head nodders. Couldn't you just slap their grave (or smiling if appropriate) faces!
And since when was the stimulus package about the fire victims. That is playing evil politics.
sam,it was on the front page of the australian...'life or lifestyle, warns fire chief', but the net copy available has nothing about it...or not much....the hard paper copy covers about 3 full pages...with snippets of what I said
here is the net copy...useless...maybe get yourself the paper itself
it stated, the smoke etc stopped them from knowing what was going on..they could not get planes up in the air etc
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25051341-601,00.html
here is the net copy...useless...maybe get yourself the paper itself
it stated, the smoke etc stopped them from knowing what was going on..they could not get planes up in the air etc
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25051341-601,00.html
Prospector
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I will see if I can scan the paper. They published a time line of events; when Kingslake had burnt down (I think it was that place) the 'war room' didnt even know there was a fire there.
OK, too big to scan but this is a snapshot of relevant bits:
4.30pm The fire was bearing down on its most vulnerable victim, the mountain town of Kinglake......
By 5.30pm in the War room, no-one knew that Kinglake or Steels Creek had been lost and that at least 37 people lay dead in those townships....
Incredibly by 6pm no-one in the war room had yet received confirmation that lives had been lost......Rees (CFA CHIEF RUSSELL REES) says "I can remember thinking about 6o'clock that if we can get out of here without any lives lost then we will be very lucky indeed".....
OK, too big to scan but this is a snapshot of relevant bits:
4.30pm The fire was bearing down on its most vulnerable victim, the mountain town of Kinglake......
By 5.30pm in the War room, no-one knew that Kinglake or Steels Creek had been lost and that at least 37 people lay dead in those townships....
Incredibly by 6pm no-one in the war room had yet received confirmation that lives had been lost......Rees (CFA CHIEF RUSSELL REES) says "I can remember thinking about 6o'clock that if we can get out of here without any lives lost then we will be very lucky indeed".....
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Everytime A fire is reported it is logged into the system and sent up through the chain to controllers who make the big decisions.
I find it difficult to believe that at 7pm that night no one in the "war room" knew of any "significant fires"
The news were reporting "significant fires" at 5pm
The radio was reporting "significant fires" from lunch time onwards
Ballarat had a strike team on the way to the "significant fires" at Kinglake around 3pm.
All this information had to come from somewhere.....
I'm not doubting you read the article, but i am doubting those facts.
I find it difficult to believe that at 7pm that night no one in the "war room" knew of any "significant fires"
The news were reporting "significant fires" at 5pm
The radio was reporting "significant fires" from lunch time onwards
Ballarat had a strike team on the way to the "significant fires" at Kinglake around 3pm.
All this information had to come from somewhere.....
I'm not doubting you read the article, but i am doubting those facts.
Prospector
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Then Sam, something went very wrong, didnt it, if the Australian article is factual. As they have directed quoted CFA Chief Rees at 6pm not knowing anyone had died, I think it is the former.
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Antisocial misfits who commit mindless thrill seeking crimes like vandalism. unprovoked assault, cruelty to animals, throwing rocks at cars from overpasses, shining laser beams at aircraft and lighting bushfires
feel no sense of guilt.
These psychopaths are however fully aware that when they come before the courts there are many, apparently well meaning people, prepared to come forward to plead mitigating circumstances and blaming the causes for their aberrations on circumstance outside their control.
"Enlightened" magistrates and judges give more weight to the arguments of the do-gooders than to those of the police or the victims. Hence soft sentences.
Julia
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It's correct. ABC Radio interviewed a Flowerdale resident several days after the fire and that person said they had been left to completely fend for themselves.
Yes. I've put it together now. And I realise that one of the reasons I had underestimated the arsonist side of this issue was that there have been a few radio programmes recently suggesting that arsonists should be charged with murder. Which is why I figured it was kids who didn't understand what they were doing. Even then though I thought they should be charged with murder. Now that I've been enlightened I don't see why there should be even any question about this.
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That's not my argument.
but still, at 6pm they are still trying to contain fires not count bodies.
Just imagine how much information is still trying to be processed at a ground level during those hours.
Thousands of firefighters being rallied from all over the state, trucks being pulled from all over the state (without leaving other areas exposed), control points being set up communications, food, water, supplies and accomodation for all these people plus all the other equipment being organised.
All within a couple of hours from the outbreak.
Victoria's worst disaster ever and people are whinging that the Chief Officer doesn't know of any confirmed deaths by 6pm?
Serioulsy, i'm getting a bit fed up with all the armchair critics.
Nothing on a scale as large as this is ever going to work 100%
I think the emergency services have done a great job in getting things as organised as quickly as they did.
As I have always said, The CFA has it's own investigation after every campaign fire to better themselves for the next.
Remember we are batttling mother nature here.
A lot of these deaths will come out as people fleeing in the face of the fire in their cars or defending undefendable houses.
Both of which have been the cfa's messgae for many, many years of what not to do!
Rant over.
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Julia, (not having a go at you) each community has one truck to defend them, if they are lucky, two.
There are only approx 1200 tankers in the state
these trucks can't sit around waiting to defend in a big fire.
All resources need to be sent to the front line to extinguish the fire before it spreads.
That is why people need to learn to defend themselves.
We cull certain animals, we destroy undesirable plants and yet we seem to be bent on hanging on to every unhuman human life.
Just prey, majority will wake up one day and vote for change.
sam...I feel sorry for the fire fighters...risking their lives,
now did you see my post about everyone into a common cleared area, with firefighters and people and a giant sprinkler just there to save lives....forget about the houses.....think I posted it Sat ???
and answer to my fire plan...posted this morning ???
now did you see my post about everyone into a common cleared area, with firefighters and people and a giant sprinkler just there to save lives....forget about the houses.....think I posted it Sat ???
and answer to my fire plan...posted this morning ???
We've never been asked to vote for this kind of change. I think the pollies are too afraid to ask us. Sentencing laws are ridiculous and I think that if you asked the ordinary person they would want at the most moderate a sentence that meant that some unhuman humans were locked up and the key thrown away.
(but think how many more prisons would need to be built)
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just like i can't give you financial advice nor can i give you individual fire advice.
As you live within the urban boundries, I suggest you consult with the mfb website for more info.
http://www.mfb.vic.gov.au/
watch this video...his sunglasses were melting....about 5 minutes...he then retreated to his bunker and lived...titled terrifying sound of fire
http://media.theage.com.au/?category=Breaking News&rid=46144
http://media.theage.com.au/?category=Breaking News&rid=46144
Why not: keep the key, vote to get rid of scum and instead of jails build fire shelters.
< More bang for bucks, and reduced CO2 emission >
Oh my dear, he is at risk.
