Victorian Fires

Agentm · 12 February 2009

James Austin said:
thirsty koala on video

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25038828-5006785,00.html

i know in kinglake where my sister lives, even though she and her family stayed and fought the blaze and miraculously survived uninjured and kept their house, the wildlife uses her property as an oasis.

there is a horse abandoned by a neighbor in the panic as the blaze struck, with burns to its body and badly singed on her small patch of grass that somehow was not burnt, then there is the water tank which is refilled with dirty water by the cfa, they allow it to drain a little and the local wallabies use that water to survive, she has also put out a lot of seed which feeds the parrots and birds..

its in the face of devastation that all survivors get looked after. you have to respect anything that made it alive there.. it would be impossible to ignore the suffering of animals that have somehow survived the inferno

Calliope · 12 February 2009

daisy said:
There's been talk for years of piping water from NQ to brisbane because up until recently it was in severe water shortage. Last time this idea came up it was laughed out of state parliament. I think that's why the qld gov't made itself so unpopular by reclaiming farmland to build another dam closer to Brisbane.
Also up here in Townsville we have water shortages also. With strict no sprinkler days backed by fines etc. The dams aren't big enough and in weather situations like we are having at moment water which could be collected is lost.
So apart from the cost of the pipeline itself we still don't have enough catchments up here for much of the year.

As for sending a percentage of southerners up here. No Thanks. We don't want them.
Our infrastructure (hospitals etc) are already stretched to groaning point from all the southerners who have immigrated up here over the last few years.
The traffic on the roads is getting to the point where there is no guarantee you will get to go on the next green light.
I moved up here from Sydney 30 years ago because I loved the environment and the lifestyle. But over the last ten years all the southerners who have moved up here (supposedly because they liked the environment and the lifestyle) have done their damndest to replicate what they left behind and they're messing it up.
Go figure!

As usual Daisy talks commonsense. Every year when we see footage of vast amounts of water spilling out of the Burdekin catchment (usually measured in Sydney harbours) the "pipedream" is resurrected. Each year people who know about these things point out the huge level of infrastructure and the vast amounts of power that would be necessary to pump water in this, apparently massive pipeline, thousands of miles.

And that's without considering that for most of the year, when it is not raining up there, this pipeline would be idle And don't tell me the water could be pumped from their existing dams. The NQ people would not take kindly to this, especially when, as Daisy says, the North has it's own periodic water shortages.

The answer to the water shortages lies with the States (and their cooperation with each other) to build more dams to harvest the water during the floods that alternate with our droughts.

Unfortunately State decisions, like Federal decisions are poll driven, and the NIMBYs supported by the greenies win every time. And it won't happen. So we fall back on pipedreams.

MrBurns · 12 February 2009

daisy said:
O.K. I'll get out with my shovel tomorrow.
Seriously I don't know why this idea has been treated like a joke but it is one that has been around for decades apparently. I think it was Beattie who raised it last.

No doubt the politicians would workshop and committee it to death, but I think Vic will have an ongoing problem and we just cant use less water every time the levels drop, at some stage the water will lose purity then it will really hit the fan, have the politicians thought of that ? I doubt it.

Bushman · 12 February 2009

Agentm said:
i know in kinglake where my sister lives, even though she and her family stayed and fought the blaze and miraculously survived uninjured and kept their house, the wildlife uses her property as an oasis.

there is a horse abandoned by a neighbor in the panic as the blaze struck, with burns to its body and badly singed on her small patch of grass that somehow was not burnt, then there is the water tank which is refilled with dirty water by the cfa, they allow it to drain a little and the local wallabies use that water to survive, she has also put out a lot of seed which feeds the parrots and birds..

its in the face of devastation that all survivors get looked after. you have to respect anything that made it alive there.. it would be impossible to ignore the suffering of animals that have somehow survived the inferno

Thanks for that mate. Very pleased for your sister and good on her for making a difference.

Friend of mine has lost his house/tools up there. Nothing left. He was in Melbourne on the Saturday so he was not injured. His aunt died though in her paddock after she saved her beloved goats (they all survived due to her actions). She was a hero too. RIP

Julia · 12 February 2009

Agentm said:
i know in kinglake where my sister lives, even though she and her family stayed and fought the blaze and miraculously survived uninjured and kept their house, the wildlife uses her property as an oasis.

there is a horse abandoned by a neighbor in the panic as the blaze struck, with burns to its body and badly singed on her small patch of grass that somehow was not burnt, then there is the water tank which is refilled with dirty water by the cfa, they allow it to drain a little and the local wallabies use that water to survive, she has also put out a lot of seed which feeds the parrots and birds..

its in the face of devastation that all survivors get looked after. you have to respect anything that made it alive there.. it would be impossible to ignore the suffering of animals that have somehow survived the inferno

So well expressed, Agentm. Bless your sister and anyone else who doesn't dismiss the suffering of animals.

Bushman said:
Thanks for that mate. Very pleased for your sister and good on her for making a difference.

Friend of mine has lost his house/tools up there. Nothing left. He was in Melbourne on the Saturday so he was not injured. His aunt died though in her paddock after she saved her beloved goats (they all survived due to her actions). She was a hero too. RIP

I'm so sorry about your friend's aunt, Bushman. Is there someone to look after the goats?

James Austin · 12 February 2009

Bushman said:
Thanks for that mate. Very pleased for your sister and good on her for making a difference.

Friend of mine has lost his house/tools up there. Nothing left. He was in Melbourne on the Saturday so he was not injured. His aunt died though in her paddock after she saved her beloved goats (they all survived due to her actions). She was a hero too. RIP

my partner is very involved in the horse industry. she was speaking to another horsie person who told of a man and his wife who owned 11 horses and lived in the bushfire zone.

the story goes that the fire was a way off from their property but the horses were starting to get edgy, due to the smoke i assume, so the couple decided to stable all 11 horses so that they didnt injure themselves in the paddock.

after doing this the couple returned inside for a drink of water to then return to the house deck to assess the fire off in the distance. they were surprised and frightened to see the fire rapidly approaching their property and horse stable.

have you ever heard a horse squeal in severe pain??, eleven of them began squealling as the heat, and then the fire, approached and engulfed the stable block.

very painful to lose loved ones, . . . . human and animal.

James

Bushman · 12 February 2009

Julia said:
I'm so sorry about your friend's aunt, Bushman. Is there someone to look after the goats?

Yes her adult children.

Agentm · 12 February 2009

Bushman said:
Thanks for that mate. Very pleased for your sister and good on her for making a difference.

Friend of mine has lost his house/tools up there. Nothing left. He was in Melbourne on the Saturday so he was not injured. His aunt died though in her paddock after she saved her beloved goats (they all survived due to her actions). She was a hero too. RIP

the decisions made by people like this are what makes us human, the difference is that we cannot bear suffering. we will always render aid, to our own and to other species. humans are a very unique species.

what you aunt did for her beloved goats is in itself tragic and her loss to her family will be felt for a long time to come. this is indeed a very very sad story.

i also have seen people feel guilt, one man had the good fortune of "elvis" dumping water on his home, a role that is standard for the men piloting the machines and saving lives and property, yet they feel empty as they survey their neighbors homes burnt to the ground around them..

there are many who feel guilt that they survived or their property survived, when there is so much loss around them

we need to care for those that have loss, to those that feel others loss and the mental and physical health of all..

Prospector · 12 February 2009

white_crane said:
Whilst piping the water down south seems like a good idea, I'm not so sure. We have floods for a reason.

Isn't that somewaht akin to saying that if man was meant to fly he would have wings? And if we have floods for a reason, then what is the reason for drought?

Calliope · 12 February 2009

From an article in today's The Australian.

Victoria's bushfire tragedy has focused attention on the management of its state forests, national parks and other Crown land, which make up a third of the state but contributed four-fifths of the fires started since Australia Day.

Among councils to resist controlled burning was the Yarra Ranges Shire, which was hit heavily by the Black Saturday bushfire disaster.

In a document from 2007, its emergency resource officer said there was too little known about its effect on flora and fauna and called for "rigorous" environmental assessment of prescribed burning, taking account of species' breeding seasons and the Leadbeater's possum zone.

"The Shire of Yarra Ranges has not undertaken prescribed burning on public land under its control for a number of years," the document said, citing a lack of expertise and the risk of lawsuits.

In that case they shouldn't have allowed people to build there. Human habitation and a pristine, native animal friendly, environment are not compatible.

MrBurns · 12 February 2009

Calliope said:
From an article in today's The Australian.

In that case they shouldn't have allowed people to build there. Human habitation and a pristine, native animal friendly, environment are not compatible.

Roll on Royal Commission, hope it's not a whitewash.

brty · 12 February 2009

Calliope,

a pristine, native animal friendly, environment

That right there is where most of the problems are. What people want to believe is such, is nothing more than a point in time of the lifecycle of the Australian bush. Man induced fire over 40-50,000 years is what has made it that way.

Without fire to regenerate the eucalypt forests, their range will recede, back to the 'natural' state. We, both aboriginal and european settlers have made the bush what it is.

brty

Julia · 12 February 2009

James Austin said:
my partner is very involved in the horse industry. she was speaking to another horsie person who told of a man and his wife who owned 11 horses and lived in the bushfire zone.

the story goes that the fire was a way off from their property but the horses were starting to get edgy, due to the smoke i assume, so the couple decided to stable all 11 horses so that they didnt injure themselves in the paddock.

after doing this the couple returned inside for a drink of water to then return to the house deck to assess the fire off in the distance. they were surprised and frightened to see the fire rapidly approaching their property and horse stable.

have you ever heard a horse squeal in severe pain??, eleven of them began squealling as the heat, and then the fire, approached and engulfed the stable block.

very painful to lose loved ones, . . . . human and animal.

James

Oh God, I wish I hadn't read this.

MrBurns · 12 February 2009

Julia said:
Oh God, I wish I hadn't read this.

I thought the same thing when i read it , we really dont need that.

MrBurns · 12 February 2009

I think this appeal on Ch9 tonight will be a flop, I reckon everyone has given by now, they'll pump it up though somehow.

Some of the media coverage has been appalling, sticking cameras in the faces of heavily grieving people I dont know how they can do it.

glenn_r · 12 February 2009

brty said:
Calliope,

That right there is where most of the problems are. What people want to believe is such, is nothing more than a point in time of the lifecycle of the Australian bush. Man induced fire over 40-50,000 years is what has made it that way.

Without fire to regenerate the eucalypt forests, their range will recede, back to the 'natural' state. We, both aboriginal and european settlers have made the bush what it is.

brty

Lightning strikes have started bush fires millions of years before man ever started stuffing things up...

Prospector · 12 February 2009

I am being such a wuss, but I simply cannot bear reading/hearing anymore about the dreadful things that are happening. So how on earth are all the real victims coping

Bushfires are a natural part of the Australian environment, but we forget that when we want to live in it.

The media - I guess the fact they are getting such graphic accounts means that people are very moved to donate. But yes, I dont think that makes it moral to show someone who has just been told they have lost a loved one, or their home. But we have seen a lot of that.

A child drowned in a pool in Adelaide this week - the photograoher was pushing past the family to show the pool - when challenged by a neighbour he was told to get out of his way. Ethics and Journalism? Ha!

Trevor_S · 12 February 2009

MrBurns said:
I thought the same thing when i read it , we really dont need that.

I think we do, don't sugar coat the horror, doing so sees the process repeated, as it will again in decades hence no doubt.. sigh...

I thought this interesting
http://www.smh.com.au/national/fine...family-now-feel-vindicated-20090212-85bd.html

They were labelled law breakers, fined $50,000 and left emotionally and financially drained.

But seven years after the Sheahans bulldozed trees to make a fire break — an act that got them dragged before a magistrate and penalised — they feel vindicated. Their house is one of the few in Reedy Creek, Victoria, still standing.

Melbourne University bushfire expert Kevin Tolhurst gave evidence to help the Sheahan family in their legal battle with the council.

"Their fight went over nearly two years. The Sheahans were victimised. It wasn't morally right," he said yesterday.

Dr Tolhurst told the Seymour Magistrates court that Mr Sheahan's clearing of the trees had reduced the fire risk to his house from extreme to moderate.

"That their house is still standing is some natural justice for the Sheahans," he said.

MrBurns · 12 February 2009

Prospector said:
The media - I guess the fact they are getting such graphic accounts means that people are very moved to donate. But yes, I dont think that makes it moral to show someone who has just been told they have lost a loved one, or their home. But we have seen a lot of that.
!

People dont need that to make them donate, look at the coverage by the ABC thats how it should be done.
Channel 9 find someone who's relative is on the other side of a mountain and fly them over there , the cameras all out to catch them as they ran toward each other, sickening parasites.

Ch 7 and 9 compete for the who can be the most shocking or tearjerking to get the ratings for $$$

That results in sickening television.

MrBurns · 12 February 2009

Trevor_S said:
I think we do, don't sugar coat the horror, doing so sees the process repeated, as it will again in decades hence no doubt.. sigh...

I thought this interesting
http://www.smh.com.au/national/fine...family-now-feel-vindicated-20090212-85bd.html

We dont need the detail of human and animal suffering, it causes unessessary anguish.

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