Vegetable garden

[Whiskers]

Hi austek.

These two phamphlets show the main chemical fertilisers I use and are commonly used in Qld. The Grow Force Flowfeed one gives a good guide to what each blend is used for.

The main preplant fert I use and is common in Qld is Crop King 55S. It's a good allround blend. Cucurbit Special or Tomato TE have less nitrogen to ensure that you don't get too much vegative growth and start fruiting lower on the bush.

Grow Force is probably the industry standard in fertigation. Flowfeed BM7 is used for double cropping, where a follow up crop is planted in the same beds, as a soluble preplant fert. CO3 is commonly used to promote vigerous seedling growth and then switch to DM3 to promote good flowering and fruitset.

But as you can see there are numerous combinations one can get and sometimes we get a batch made to match our exact requirements from soil tests.

For the vege garden I use a good handful or two of granular preplant fert per m2 and about a tablespoon of the soluble in a 10l water can a couple times per week on veges. A bit more if needed as they start flowering. These products are probably only available at rural supplies stores.

Alternatives that are usually available at nurseries are Q5, Nitrophoska Blue or Rustica for preplant and Thrive or Aquasol for fertigation.

Nutri-Tech Tripple Ten that I have mentioned earlier is often used as a preplant or at planting and as a phosphate boost when coming up to flowering.

I also often used vermicast, fish emulsion and kelp in the fertigation as well with a bit of molasses ocassionally for a bit of iron but mainly to clean the trickle lines and provide sugars for microbe food.

 

[austek]

Thanks for that Whiskers,

I'll give triple ten a try, and study your fertilizer pamphlet.

Currently I use Phostrogen NPK:12.5:5.0:24.5 which is probably pretty close to the mark. perhaps It's time to grow tomatoes in other fresher soil where they haven't been before, but a bird problem prevents that.

I like to be able to view toms from the rear glass doors

 

[Whiskers]

Thanks for that Whiskers,

I'll give triple ten a try, and study your fertilizer pamphlet.

Currently I use Phostrogen NPK:12.5:5.0:24.5 which is probably pretty close to the mark. perhaps It's time to grow tomatoes in other fresher soil where they haven't been before, but a bird problem prevents that.

I like to be able to view toms from the rear glass doors

Hey austek, if you have been growing tomatoes in the same ground it might pay to have a look for other problems like nematodes.

That Phostrogen has good potassium. It should give you good fruit.

Often when people lime gardens they can become low in balance for Magnesium, unles you use dolomite. Often a dose of magnesium sulphate will flush toxens out of plants when they are not doing very well, in the same way a dose of epsom salts (magnesuim sulphate) works as a laxative for humans. I you haven't been applying any you could water in a handful per m2 it won't do any harm. It's dirt cheap.

Introduction
Root-knot nematodes (Meloidogyne spp.) are minute, worm-like animals which are very common in soil. They have a wide host range, causing problems in many annual and perennial crops. Tomatoes are among the most seriously affected, with the nematodes causing problems in all growing areas.

In this DPI&F Note, the biology and management of root-knot nematode is discussed. Although this information is specific for tomatoes, the principles can be applied to most other annual crops.

Symptoms and damage
Root-knot nematodes do not produce any specific above-ground symptoms. Affected plants have an unthrifty appearance and often show symptoms of stunting, wilting or chlorosis (yellowing). Symptoms are particularly severe when plants are infected soon after planting. More commonly, however, nematode populations do not build up until late in the season and plants grow normally until they reach maturity. They then begin to wilt and die back with flowering, fruit set and fruit development being reduced.

Below ground, the symptoms caused by root-knot nematodes are quite distinctive. Lumps or galls, ranging in size from 1 to 10 mm in diameter, develop all over the roots. In severe infestations, heavily galled roots may rot away, leaving a poor root system with a few large galls.
http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/horticulture/4855.html

 

[Jockstar73]

Hi,
have been reading this thread off and on for a little while and so thought that I would just say hi.....
My wife and I bought a house about a year ago after living in apartments for the last 8 or so years.... so now with an actual front yard and back yard, we put in our first Vegetable patch... we grew some Tomatoes last year and they went great guns, so we are excited about how this venture will go.. they have only been in for 3 weeks but have boomed... here is a pic.....

I think we got too excited.. we planted..

tomatoes
lettace
carrots
strawberrys
zuccini
cucumber
spring onion
spinach
chilli
capsicum
bassal
parsley

Cheers... Jock

 

[nioka]

It is months since this thread was bumped. Has everyone given up gardening. Maybe it is getting too cold for the southerners but in this place (God's own country) the garden is blossoming with both summer and winter crops. This week I have picked lettuces, spinnach, zucchini, tomatoes, beans, choko, lemons, mandarines, tanjellos, pomellos,strawberries, tamarillos, potatoes, and more. The weather is cool enough to enjoy the outdoors (between checking the shares and ASF of course). Remember when the world wearies and life doesn't satisfy, there is always the garden. The home grown always tastes better and you don't have to eat pesticides etc.

 

[INORE]

nice post nioka...

down here in wet and coolish perth i have just planted about 40 seed potatoes for a september harvest....and some baby potatoes for that winter roast...i planted about 20 capsicum seedilings about 4 months ago and didnt realise how prolific they can produce...(can anyone tell me how easy it is to transplant these?) they are now slowing right down with the cool weather...brocolli in as well...corn crop missed the warm weather boat so i will be pulling them up this weekend...

i am still having trouble with my 60cm tall citrus that is dropping leaves and has leaves yellowing at the tip. i put epsom salt solution on about two weeks ago without any result so far...will try manganese or magnesium spray come spring and see if that has any effect....

cheers

 

[Whiskers]

nice post nioka...

down here in wet and coolish perth i have just planted about 40 seed potatoes for a september harvest....and some baby potatoes for that winter roast...i planted about 20 capsicum seedilings about 4 months ago and didnt realise how prolific they can produce...(can anyone tell me how easy it is to transplant these?) they are now slowing right down with the cool weather...brocolli in as well...corn crop missed the warm weather boat so i will be pulling them up this weekend...

Hi INORE

The capsicums will plant out from trays or pots and recover fine. Soak them in a seaweed water mix before you transplant will give them the best chance.

If they are in the ground and you want to move some, soak with seaweed mix, slash the tops off then transplant the stump with as much soil as you can. I often prune the bush right back and let it ratoon another crop. Some commercial growers just put the slasher over them to prune them back for another crop.

i am still having trouble with my 60cm tall citrus that is dropping leaves and has leaves yellowing at the tip. i put epsom salt solution on about two weeks ago without any result so far...will try manganese or magnesium spray come spring and see if that has any effect....

INORE, since this didn't rectify over the summer it is looking like a soil ph issue. Cool damp conditions can exasipate the problem. There are a couple of other nutrients that can also cause yellowing and stunting that may require adding something other than what the visual signs of deficiency suggest, ie what is causing the imbalance.

Can you give some detail of the soil, eg sand, sandy loam, clay loam, clay... and soil colour, white, grey, brown, red, black.

Any chance you have one of those home ph kits, and get a ph reading of the natural soil that hasn't been affected by lime or fert and another in the transplant hole?

Also do you know if it was a grafted citrus and what the rootstock was?

If you can remember how much lime and magnesium you have applied to it, that would be helpful also.

 

[nioka]

.

i am still having trouble with my 60cm tall citrus that is dropping leaves and has leaves yellowing at the tip. i put epsom salt solution on about two weeks ago without any result so far...will try manganese or magnesium spray come spring and see if that has any effect....

cheers

Citrus have a very touchy trace element requirement. When I plant a citrus tree I put a piece of copper wire, a crushed jam tin and a few galvanised nails in the hole. A trick used in the days before trace element fertilisers. I give each tree a spoonfull of epsom salts yearly and plenty of poultry manure. Mulch well and sit back and wait for the fruit. Wtih mature trees you can put a copper nail and a galv roofing nail in the trunk.

As whiskers points out, citrus don't like wet feet nor dry feet. The PH is also important. A treatment of sulphate of potash helps if the fruit are not juicy and sweet.

 

[INORE]

Hi INORE

The capsicums will plant out from trays or pots and recover fine. Soak them in a seaweed water mix before you transplant will give them the best chance.

If they are in the ground and you want to move some, soak with seaweed mix, slash the tops off then transplant the stump with as much soil as you can. I often prune the bush right back and let it ratoon another crop. Some commercial growers just put the slasher over them to prune them back for another crop.



INORE, since this didn't rectify over the summer it is looking like a soil ph issue. Cool damp conditions can exasipate the problem. There are a couple of other nutrients that can also cause yellowing and stunting that may require adding something other than what the visual signs of deficiency suggest, ie what is causing the imbalance.

Can you give some detail of the soil, eg sand, sandy loam, clay loam, clay... and soil colour, white, grey, brown, red, black.

Any chance you have one of those home ph kits, and get a ph reading of the natural soil that hasn't been affected by lime or fert and another in the transplant hole?

Also do you know if it was a grafted citrus and what the rootstock was?

If you can remember how much lime and magnesium you have applied to it, that would be helpful also.

Thanks whiskers. The capsicums are about 1 meter tall in ground. when i transplant, how much of the stem should be left? With the plants that i dont transplant, are you saying that they should get a good pruning at this time of year? and should i just harvest remaing capsicums before pruning?



Citrus.
i have test kit so will test. The surrounding soil is grey sand, but when i planted i dug a big hole and filled with landscape sand mix (from a soil place). citrus is grafted and i will get back to you with rootstock...
i do have the citrus in a reasonably 'light competitive location' (in between a hibiscus and a screenmaster bush) but would that effect the leaf drop?

cheers

 

[jonojpsg]

Hey all,
IT's getting a little depressing down here in the far south (Hobart) with the garden not doing much at the mo. I do have a nice raised bed facing north though set against the wall of our sunroom so this is growing some nice winter potatoes and lettuce spinach leeks etc. I actually have some tiny tim tomatoes and basil plants that are doing well inside the sunroom - makes for a little bit of joy seeing homegrown toms during winter down here

I'm jealous nioka - might move up that way when i retire

 

[Julia]

Hey all,
IT's getting a little depressing down here in the far south (Hobart) with the garden not doing much at the mo. I do have a nice raised bed facing north though set against the wall of our sunroom so this is growing some nice winter potatoes and lettuce spinach leeks etc. I actually have some tiny tim tomatoes and basil plants that are doing well inside the sunroom - makes for a little bit of joy seeing homegrown toms during winter down here

I'm jealous nioka - might move up that way when i retire

jono, I do sympathise. Spent most of my life in Christchurch , NZ where the ground was frozen solid through much of the winter. When I moved to Qld I thought, wonderful, I will be able to grow everything all year round.
Ah, wrong! The summer is much too hot for vegetables for the most part.
In autumn/winter, yes things grow quite well, but just when they are looking good along come all the pests and diseases you can imagine. I've had flourishing silverbeet one day and the next morning just a sliver of the stem remains. Ditto with basil. The bean fly will wipe out a crop of beans in a day.
Then your tomatoes will suffer from various fungal diseases.

I'd guess that where you are now at least in the growing season you can grow most vegetables without any trouble.

In summary, there advantages and disadvantages wherever you live.

 

[jonojpsg]

HI Julia,
Too true - I have very little issue with pests down here and I have had a great summer season although my toms got sturck down by some fungal disease this year which was a major bummer

And the cool weather bonuses of raspberries, blueberries, cherries, etc. make it worthwhile

I am looking at selling my current place and building on a beautiful north facing internal block where we can site the house right at the back/top of the block and I can have about 300m2 of the block at the bottom to basically make us self sufficient Boy am I looking forward to that.

Thanks for making me look on the bright side of things

 

[nioka]

jono, I do sympathise. Spent most of my life in Christchurch , NZ where the ground was frozen solid through much of the winter. When I moved to Qld I thought, wonderful, I will be able to grow everything all year round.
Ah, wrong! The summer is much too hot for vegetables for the most part.
In autumn/winter, yes things grow quite well, but just when they are looking good along come all the pests and diseases you can imagine. I've had flourishing silverbeet one day and the next morning just a sliver of the stem remains. Ditto with basil. The bean fly will wipe out a crop of beans in a day.
Then your tomatoes will suffer from various fungal diseases.

I'd guess that where you are now at least in the growing season you can grow most vegetables without any trouble.

In summary, there advantages and disadvantages wherever you live.

I was brought up near Gayndah and also lived for a time near Bundaberg so I realise how hard it is when it gets hot but..

It can be done. We used to grow a row or two of corn in the summer and use it to shade other crops by growing them with the corn.A lot of companion planting will help with the insects. We always had a lot of dwarf marigolds ( must be dwarf and I don't know why) and herbs growing with the vegies.
There is a tomato which is mostly bug free, it's called a potato tomato and is a heritage tomato I grow it summer and winter. Smallish but tasty. Beans must be hilled up by continually hilling soil around the bottom of the plant and Purple king climbing beans do not have a lot of problems. Brown mignonette lettuce if mulched do OK in hot weather. Squash and pumpkin need to be sprayed to keep the fungus down, we used to grow zucchini and get a quick crop off before the mildew and then dig in the plants and plant more. Grow potatoes by mulching with 4 inches of cane mulch.

Just think how much you can grow through the winter when all they can grow down south is a crop of leeks.

Enjoy the garden.

 

[Whiskers]

Thanks whiskers. The capsicums are about 1 meter tall in ground. when i transplant, how much of the stem should be left? With the plants that i dont transplant, are you saying that they should get a good pruning at this time of year? and should i just harvest remaing capsicums before pruning?

You will need to leave a few 'eye's' or 'nodes'. Generally trim off a few inches above where branching starts.

If they are still producing fruit ok I'd keep picking them, or some anyway until later in winter, than prune them off to rejeuvinate and ratoon as the weather warms up. But if you get bad frosts it would be better to leave them stand until the frosts passed.

Generally they are slashed off when the best part of the crop is harvested to get a ratoon crop quicker than replanting before the end of the season, ie before it gets too hot or too cold.

Citrus.
i have test kit so will test. The surrounding soil is grey sand, but when i planted i dug a big hole and filled with landscape sand mix (from a soil place). citrus is grafted and i will get back to you with rootstock...
i do have the citrus in a reasonably 'light competitive location' (in between a hibiscus and a screenmaster bush) but would that effect the leaf drop?

cheers

We have an agronomist on the forum. I'll see if I can get her to have a look too when you post the results back.

 

[Whiskers]

I was brought up near Gayndah and also lived for a time near Bundaberg

Well nioka, we've shared some of the same old stomping ground. I used to get to and through Gayndah quite often. I'm still near Bundaberg.

And Yes it does get pretty hot late Jan and Feb. You need plenty of water if the rain fails to grow much here then. But as you say if you use natural mulch and companion planting it works well.

Green mulch works well. Yes, just let the grass grow in summer to shade the ground from the heat. True green mulch involves planting particular grass, legumes or companion plants.

I used to grow squash and zucchinni commercially, often into the hot summer if the south had late frosts or rain. I found it more economical to grow hot weather varieties that grew extremely fast and not spray pesticides. The seed would shoot in three days, water and fertilise generously, keeping nitrates on lower side and luxury brix to lessen midew and start picking in 5 to 5 1/2 weeks and go like hell for a month or so. The new growth would literally grow faster than the mildew could catch up. They grow so quickly that sometimes I'd even pick twice a day if the money was good for the medium size.

And yes most farms are pretty frost free around here and there is a lot of planting going on from late summer right through winter to late spring.

 

[roland]

So, I spent the day digging up one of my mother's small patches of garden that has sat there for 30 years barely supporting the "Money Tree", that I wasn't allowed to rip out due to bad luck being thrust upon me (as if I needed more with the demise of BBP), a "cigarette tree" (so named by mum, because the flowers looked like burning cigarettes), some old bromiliads and other un-named leafy things - all out - except for the "Money Tree"

We extended the "garden" by extracting some badly neglected grass (I would have named it better by calling it green weeds) - anyway, the garden now encompasses the Lemon tree we planted for her (which actually is starting to produce), and a lonely miniature nectarine, which has grown about 2 inches in 2 years. It currently looks like a couple of sticks since it has dropped all it's leaves (all 20 of them)

I built a little retaining wall of half sawn treated pine logs from Bunnings to stop the dirt from washing into the neighbours place, since her property is on a slope, dug up the clay, threw in some gypsum as a clay breaker, added some left over course sand from paver relaying project around the BBQ area that has taken me 6 weeks, chucked in a heap of chicken pellets and a few bags of Bunnings potting mix (on special for 2.46 per 25 litre bag).

Now, in my wife's effort to try and grow something we can eat, we rutted a trench and layed down a pack of carrots (2,000 seeds in 1 pack!).

Back home and on the net researching carrots reveals that they need even, and non-obstructive soil - no rocks, or lumps of other stuff to impede the carrot as it sends down it's fine leading root.

Well, looks like we are going to have alien distorted carrots, if any at all

In any case, I wanted to share the following website that I came across searching for carrots that I found quite entertaining - from a gardening perspective:

http://canieatit.co.uk/


By the way, growing the lemon tree is heaps rewarding. It has some yellowing on the leaves. Tonight on ABC gardening they were talking about citrus and it seems like the yellowing leaves could be some iron deficiancy - need to investigate trace element supplements.

The above website link also has some links to someone growing inverted tomatoes and the potatoe in a bucket challenge looks like fun

Enjoy!

 

[Julia]

Roland, the yellowing on the citrus leaves is sometimes due to magnesium deficiency. Try giving it Epsom Salts, about 2tbs to a bucket of water poured over the whole tree. If it doesn't cure the problem it won't hurt it.

 

[kenny]

Roland,

Having been brainwashed by my organic-lly bent missus; I might ask if you checked that the treated pine retainers are arsenic free ones at least? We are pretty much considered paranoid by our gardening friends but we took out all treated pine logs prior to starting a veggie patch. The treatment solution, whether arsenic based or not seeps out into the surrounding soil 20cm or so for at least 5 - 10 years and isn't really necessary for your diet let's just say.

Google it and try to screen out some of the more extremist views either way.

Cheers,

Kenny

 

[roland]

Roland,

Having been brainwashed by my organic-lly bent missus; I might ask if you checked that the treated pine retainers are arsenic free ones at least? We are pretty much considered paranoid by our gardening friends but we took out all treated pine logs prior to starting a veggie patch. The treatment solution, whether arsenic based or not seeps out into the surrounding soil 20cm or so for at least 5 - 10 years and isn't really necessary for your diet let's just say.

Google it and try to screen out some of the more extremist views either way.

Cheers,

Kenny

I just lined the inside of the pine logs with some of that heavy plastic sheeting where they would contact the soil. Also the carrots are around 3 feet away. The logs may not even be treated, since they don't carry that distinctive green colour.

Good "heads up" though

 

[roland]

Roland, the yellowing on the citrus leaves is sometimes due to magnesium deficiency. Try giving it Epsom Salts, about 2tbs to a bucket of water poured over the whole tree. If it doesn't cure the problem it won't hurt it.

OK, will give that a try. It's been planted in very heavy clay soil about 2 years ago. It's been growing quite well - at least double in size now. First year mum got 3 lemons, this year at least 10 with more coming along.

When I planted it I put in a heap of chook pellets. Yesterday I asked mum to Seasol it every 2 weeks.

There are 2 x lemons on it that look like they are not going to be any good - dwarfed and an odd colour, so it's missing something. I also clipped off a couple of branch shoots that had a couple of deformed/curled leaves.