Useless Labor Party

[SirRumpole]

I seem to recall the LNP Govt signed a crony contract a couple of weeks before an election they were tipped lose? It was also in the courts with protesting councils?

If the Labor govt signed a deal for a lot of money in the face of the LNP promising to tear up the contract post election, would same rules apply? Of course both sides of the fence to argue the benefits of their own virtues as being justified to sign the contract.

Andrews is taking the proposal to the next election and won't sign any contracts before that, unlike the crony contracts signed by the LNP as you pointed out.

As for being more expensive, is it the same route as the old one or does it connect more places ? Let's compare oranges with oranges.

 

[MrBurns]

I seem to recall the LNP Govt signed a crony contract a couple of weeks before an election they were tipped lose? It was also in the courts with protesting councils?

If the Labor govt signed a deal for a lot of money in the face of the LNP promising to tear up the contract post election, would same rules apply? Of course both sides of the fence to argue the benefits of their own virtues as being justified to sign the contract.

That creep paid $1.1B to get out of a contract while people in this State are homeless....and to boot we needed that link and still do.

East West Link remains a 'high priority', says infrastructure umpire

The East West Link has been singled out as a top priority by Australia's infrastructure umpire, bringing into question a decision by the Andrews government to spend hundreds of millions of dollars axing the contract for the road.

A landmark report by Infrastructure Australia has warned the road link – joining the Eastern Freeway to the Tullamarine Freeway – will be needed in the near future to avoid crippling congestion.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/e...ys-infrastructure-umpire-20160216-gmv9h6.html

 

[noco]

You know how you don't like the Green and the Reds (Socialists?).

You don't like their politician's bs, lies and more lies. Or you don't like the idea of their platform? Like helping the poor and provide clean air and potable water for everyone.

I read your recount of the tough times you, and I'm assuming most other Australians, were doing it really tough noco. Thanks for sharing... was replying some long **** response but then even I got tired of reading it so yea...

Point I'm trying to make is that Australia, and societies in general... are living better quality of life, having more opportunities to advance themselves etc. All the progress are really from the work of what people call tree huggers, dreamers, idiots and Socialists commies.

The people aren't better off because of some big generous capitalist/industrialists; innovation don't come from monopolists and tycoons who have corner some market and bought off enough political influence to keep it that way.

That kind of trickle down benevolence has never work, ever. It wasn't the cause of great social and economic, technological progress since you were young either; and it's not the cause of any progress in recent decades either.

Innovations came about when young people were educated, given opportunities to study and advanced themselves and society. They have never came from telling the kids to go and get a freaking job and leave innovations to the selected gentry.

Anyway, not saying Green and Labor are all good politicians; or that Liberals are all a holes. Just we might be screwed by both.

Luu, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that but in the pretext of that opinion you have overlooked some important points.

You are so wrong in accusing me of not helping the poor.....I am just as concerned about the welfare of the poor as you are but not overlooking the fact as to the reason a large percentage have found themselves in that predicament......I have witnessed so many cases of people wasting their money on booze, cigarettes and poker machines and they wonder why they find themselves in such a situation.

I believe I have done my far share in helping the poor, the likes of which I am sure you could never match.

Yes, people are better off today than many of us were 60+ years ago but that quality of life is diminishing due to several factors of modern day living in the 21st century.....The cost of living is constantly on the rise but wages are not keeping up with those costs.

I fail to agree with you that progress has been attributed to tree huggers, dreamers, idiots and commies....Those people are rarely seen as progressive but rather obstructionist in the course of justice in creating new coal mines, dams and other important infrastructure which in turn create jobs, income and royalties to effect a better way of life.

The Green/Labor left wing socialist coalition are in dream world with their outrageous renewable energy targets and you do not have to go past South Australia and now Victoria to witness the disaster that is happening in those two states......The loss of jobs due to the closure of coal fired base load power, the increase in the price of electricity and how it is affecting the poor pensioners and working families, the black outs that occurring and the deterrent they are imposing on business with higher prices and unreliable supply......No business can tolerate that type of imposition and in the end the SA Government will lose business to other states or even go off sure...I just hate to try and predict how the shortage and unreliable power will affect the building of those submarines.

So now you degrade and ridicule the capitalist industrialists ......your preference I can see is socialism (communism for a better word) where the government your prefer would have central control of industry....Luu, it does not work and history has proven that time and time again.....So you must rethink which is the better alternative.

How can you deny the fact that technology has not come a long way over the years particularly in electronics?....The advancement in that area has been very significant.

You are so correct about politicians but we are being screwed more so from the left and even a Marxist in the UK has just recently stated the left has gone too far.

 

[Tisme]

That creep paid $1.1B to get out of a contract while people in this State are homeless....and to boot we needed that link and still do.


http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/e...ys-infrastructure-umpire-20160216-gmv9h6.html

Given the way budget invariably blow out on capital works, what was final realistic cost?

We were lucky to have a Premier here two terms ago who put a lot of transport infrastructure in Brisbane. On top of that the mayor at the time committed council funds to a tunnel to compliment public floated tunnels.

 

[drsmith]

Andrews is taking the proposal to the next election and won't sign any contracts before that, unlike the crony contracts signed by the LNP as you pointed out.

As for being more expensive, is it the same route as the old one or does it connect more places ? Let's compare oranges with oranges.

From what I can tell in the ABC article, it will connect the M3 to M80 for $10bn. Section one of the EW Link would have connected M3 to the Tullamarine freeway for ~$5bn. This is what Daniel Andrews cancelled after Labor took office at a cost of $1.1bn. The two options are broadly similar in that they connect the M3 to the northern suburbs freeway network.

I'm not defending the former Liberal government in signing the contracts. The business case appears questionable based on what I've seen in the public domain however, that's not something I've looked at in detail. The following however is what the Victorian acting Auditor-General had to say about the incoming Labor government cancelling the contract,

Frost said the decision by the Andrews government to terminate the project had been made without full consideration of the merits of continuing, or by weighing those benefits against the costs of terminating the contract. He said the government had reimbursed costs claimed by the East West Consortium despite being refused access to the consortium’s financial records to verify the amount, ultimately incurring termination costs of $1.1 billion for little tangible benefit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_West_Link_(Melbourne)

Perhaps the contract shouldn't have been signed before the 2014 state election given the business case however, today's proposal at twice the cost from the government that cancelled the earlier contract only serves to highlight what the Victorian acting Auditor-General above had to say.

With regard to taking today's announcement to the next election, the point is moot. Projects of this scale take years to work through the planning and procurement phases. If it were to go ahead, the contract wouldn't be signed until after the next state election in any case.

I seem to recall the LNP Govt signed a crony contract a couple of weeks before an election they were tipped lose? It was also in the courts with protesting councils?

If the Labor govt signed a deal for a lot of money in the face of the LNP promising to tear up the contract post election, would same rules apply? Of course both sides of the fence to argue the benefits of their own virtues as being justified to sign the contract.

Governments have the right to govern until the caretaker provisions apply. With regard to objectors to projects, nothing would get built if we waited for every whinger to shut up.

 

[Tisme]

Governments have the right to govern until the caretaker provisions apply. With regard objectors to projects, nothing would get built if we waited for every whinger to shut up.

Couldn't agree more. I guess Andrews exercised that right.

 

[drsmith]

Couldn't agree more. I guess Andrews exercised that right.

He did and today we see more of the cost.

 

[MrBurns]

Andrews is a first class prick, he had no right to cancel the East West and if we really do need the one he's now proposing he should proceed now rather than wait another 2 years.......his incompetence beggars belief.
All he needs to do is to ask the Libs if they agree to it then just proceed, if they don't agree argue it out now.

 

[noco]

Andrews is taking the proposal to the next election and won't sign any contracts before that, unlike the crony contracts signed by the LNP as you pointed out.

As for being more expensive, is it the same route as the old one or does it connect more places ? Let's compare oranges with oranges.

Or is it apples with apples?

 

[SirRumpole]

Andrews is a first class prick, he had no right to cancel the East West

As I recall, cancelling the East West was one of his major election platforms. I think it's what you call a mandate.

 

[MrBurns]

As I recall, cancelling the East West was one of his major election platforms. I think it's what you call a mandate.

I don't imagine he was voted in on that issue.

I'm not going back over history but we needed it then and we still do that's why I say he had no right.

His lack of popularity now or a major part of it is the result .

 

[moXJO]

They got their union friendly companies on board and jacked up the price in anticipation of cost blowouts.

Victoria is a notorious state for union rorts. Any Sydney construction business that tried to expand into victoria in the 90s were run out of town. Fairly closed shop down there.
Andrews was there to look after mates. Typical labor style they couldn't care less about public money.

 

[noco]

As I recall, cancelling the East West was one of his major election platforms. I think it's what you call a mandate.

Andrews also said to the voters that cancelling that contract would not cost Victoria one cent...I think the last count was well over a billion dollars.

Good thinking Mr Andrews......Typical Labor mentality.

 

[luutzu]

Luu, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that but in the pretext of that opinion you have overlooked some important points.

You are so wrong in accusing me of not helping the poor.....I am just as concerned about the welfare of the poor as you are but not overlooking the fact as to the reason a large percentage have found themselves in that predicament......I have witnessed so many cases of people wasting their money on booze, cigarettes and poker machines and they wonder why they find themselves in such a situation.

I believe I have done my far share in helping the poor, the likes of which I am sure you could never match.

Yes, people are better off today than many of us were 60+ years ago but that quality of life is diminishing due to several factors of modern day living in the 21st century.....The cost of living is constantly on the rise but wages are not keeping up with those costs.

I fail to agree with you that progress has been attributed to tree huggers, dreamers, idiots and commies....Those people are rarely seen as progressive but rather obstructionist in the course of justice in creating new coal mines, dams and other important infrastructure which in turn create jobs, income and royalties to effect a better way of life.

The Green/Labor left wing socialist coalition are in dream world with their outrageous renewable energy targets and you do not have to go past South Australia and now Victoria to witness the disaster that is happening in those two states......The loss of jobs due to the closure of coal fired base load power, the increase in the price of electricity and how it is affecting the poor pensioners and working families, the black outs that occurring and the deterrent they are imposing on business with higher prices and unreliable supply......No business can tolerate that type of imposition and in the end the SA Government will lose business to other states or even go off sure...I just hate to try and predict how the shortage and unreliable power will affect the building of those submarines.

So now you degrade and ridicule the capitalist industrialists ......your preference I can see is socialism (communism for a better word) where the government your prefer would have central control of industry....Luu, it does not work and history has proven that time and time again.....So you must rethink which is the better alternative.

How can you deny the fact that technology has not come a long way over the years particularly in electronics?....The advancement in that area has been very significant.

You are so correct about politicians but we are being screwed more so from the left and even a Marxist in the UK has just recently stated the left has gone too far.

I never assumed you have something against the poor. I don't think you hate the poor since if you do, you'd be in politics already.

There's always been gamblers and people who are less than responsible. But not all gamblers or drug addicts or homeless people are in such situation because of a lack of self-control or whatever the likes of clueless and useless politicians want us to believe.

First, studies have shown that "just say no" to drugs, to sex, to smoking... that does not work.

Same with gambling and depression and poverty. No one set out in life wanting to gamble all their earnings away. So why are so many doing it?

Beside personal control... other factors includes the easy access and promotion of gambling. Since Bob bloody Carr let that free market rip on NSW pubs and RSL clubs, allowing as many pokies as they can handle. How many Australians all over the state got screwed?

When I was growing up, all the RSL clubs are shabby building with hardly a concreted carpark. Even when I was HS they were still shabby with no more than a couple tennis courts, lawn bowling and old folks in white gear.

The past 20 years and all of them have grown like their own mini Las Vegas. They didn't become rich because people suddenly love to "punt" more.

There are many other causes for gambling... least among them would be people's self-control. I mean, no job, low paying job and rising costs of everything; being fired and have no where to turn to for some emotional, career or financial support... Push people into that kind of situation through policies, then have readily available get-rich-quick machines... that's not a free market, that's farking with people's life and taking their money, then blame them for it. Maybe that is the free market, who knows.

---------------

Socialism is not Communism. Heck, it might not even be "Socialism".

It's just a method of social control to divide the plebs into Left and Right. We plebs just have to accept that either Left or Right, we're just fodders whose sole mission in life is to serve the idle Lords and their minions of warmongers and intellectuals.

All the human rights, the rights for workers to be paid fairly and return home safety; to not get poisoned at work; or consumer dying young from whatever that's churned out or flushed into rivers and water ways... The rights to public education, learning how to read and write; to question overpaid idiots; to have some assistant in bad times; be treated when sick etc. etc.

These are not the platform or the sole area of the Left or the Greens or the Socialists. We plebs all want that. And it was won after much struggles. It was never granted or given.

So the idea that if only the Greens or the Left leave business and gov't alone, they'll do right by all and create jobs for all.

For one, business people never create jobs unless there's a demand for it. Those that create jobs without known demand tend to only hire themselves and their spouse - both without pay.

Second, look at countries like China where there's no worker rights, not much safety or pollution regulation. They can hardly breathe over there; kids are sold tainted milk; and god knows what other ingredients are in their food or floating in their waterways.

Why in the world do we want to compete or imitate that kind of free market? It would be great for corporations and capitalists if we were. Who doesn't love to just dump all their waste in whatever ways they feel like; or unload onto the market whatever standard of products they can convince people of.


----

It might sound like I am against capitalist or industrialists... Well that is true. But I'm not against responsible entrepreneur, innovators, business people, scientists or any such thing. And it has always been such small and unknown people who built the world and industrialised it. It's never the titans and head honchos.

I mean, practically every significant advances in science and technology of modern times came from the labs of gov't departments or gov't funded universities or through endless funding of private enterprise through cushy gov't contracts.

The computer, the internet, jet engines, planes, trains, automobile, canned food, energy, water and all infrastructure and its engineering.

So the gov't funded and assist in these advances... spending taxpayers money, sending taxpayers or their kids to war to secure supply lines and establish bases to make friends and win over savages... then once all such costs bear fruits, the joy of it goes to friends and neighbours. The plebs can also enjoy some of it too - for a price.

And that's how politicians screws over the public. By funding pet projects that benefit their friends and masters; by defunding efforts that would harm the same; by designing policies that, like an invisible hand, pushes and bend the people over so they'd sweat and labour and empty their pockets and life savings... then get thrown to the trash once they're no longer of use.

Not all of them are as incompetent as they appear. They "fail" the public because the public thought the gov't supposed to serve them.

 

[Tisme]

I don't imagine he was voted in on that issue.

I'm not going back over history but we needed it then and we still do that's why I say he had no right.

His lack of popularity now or a major part of it is the result .

They are cheap votes and usually someone has to fall on their sword. He must be teflon skinned?

 

[noco]

I never assumed you have something against the poor. I don't think you hate the poor since if you do, you'd be in politics already.

There's always been gamblers and people who are less than responsible. But not all gamblers or drug addicts or homeless people are in such situation because of a lack of self-control or whatever the likes of clueless and useless politicians want us to believe.

First, studies have shown that "just say no" to drugs, to sex, to smoking... that does not work.

Same with gambling and depression and poverty. No one set out in life wanting to gamble all their earnings away. So why are so many doing it?

Beside personal control... other factors includes the easy access and promotion of gambling. Since Bob bloody Carr let that free market rip on NSW pubs and RSL clubs, allowing as many pokies as they can handle. How many Australians all over the state got screwed?

When I was growing up, all the RSL clubs are shabby building with hardly a concreted carpark. Even when I was HS they were still shabby with no more than a couple tennis courts, lawn bowling and old folks in white gear.

The past 20 years and all of them have grown like their own mini Las Vegas. They didn't become rich because people suddenly love to "punt" more.

There are many other causes for gambling... least among them would be people's self-control. I mean, no job, low paying job and rising costs of everything; being fired and have no where to turn to for some emotional, career or financial support... Push people into that kind of situation through policies, then have readily available get-rich-quick machines... that's not a free market, that's farking with people's life and taking their money, then blame them for it. Maybe that is the free market, who knows.

---------------

Socialism is not Communism. Heck, it might not even be "Socialism".

It's just a method of social control to divide the plebs into Left and Right. We plebs just have to accept that either Left or Right, we're just fodders whose sole mission in life is to serve the idle Lords and their minions of warmongers and intellectuals.

All the human rights, the rights for workers to be paid fairly and return home safety; to not get poisoned at work; or consumer dying young from whatever that's churned out or flushed into rivers and water ways... The rights to public education, learning how to read and write; to question overpaid idiots; to have some assistant in bad times; be treated when sick etc. etc.

These are not the platform or the sole area of the Left or the Greens or the Socialists. We plebs all want that. And it was won after much struggles. It was never granted or given.

So the idea that if only the Greens or the Left leave business and gov't alone, they'll do right by all and create jobs for all.

For one, business people never create jobs unless there's a demand for it. Those that create jobs without known demand tend to only hire themselves and their spouse - both without pay.

Second, look at countries like China where there's no worker rights, not much safety or pollution regulation. They can hardly breathe over there; kids are sold tainted milk; and god knows what other ingredients are in their food or floating in their waterways.

Why in the world do we want to compete or imitate that kind of free market? It would be great for corporations and capitalists if we were. Who doesn't love to just dump all their waste in whatever ways they feel like; or unload onto the market whatever standard of products they can convince people of.


----

It might sound like I am against capitalist or industrialists... Well that is true. But I'm not against responsible entrepreneur, innovators, business people, scientists or any such thing. And it has always been such small and unknown people who built the world and industrialised it. It's never the titans and head honchos.

I mean, practically every significant advances in science and technology of modern times came from the labs of gov't departments or gov't funded universities or through endless funding of private enterprise through cushy gov't contracts.

The computer, the internet, jet engines, planes, trains, automobile, canned food, energy, water and all infrastructure and its engineering.

So the gov't funded and assist in these advances... spending taxpayers money, sending taxpayers or their kids to war to secure supply lines and establish bases to make friends and win over savages... then once all such costs bear fruits, the joy of it goes to friends and neighbours. The plebs can also enjoy some of it too - for a price.

And that's how politicians screws over the public. By funding pet projects that benefit their friends and masters; by defunding efforts that would harm the same; by designing policies that, like an invisible hand, pushes and bend the people over so they'd sweat and labour and empty their pockets and life savings... then get thrown to the trash once they're no longer of use.

Not all of them are as incompetent as they appear. They "fail" the public because the public thought the gov't supposed to serve them.

Sorry Luu, I went to sleep half through reading all that....Most of it was a quite boring and did not much sense:sleeping:

 

[Tink]

The sooner these vandals are thrown out, the better, imv.

 

[noco]

The sooner these vandals are thrown out, the better, imv.

And the same thing applies to the Queensland state Labor Government under Palaszczuk.....They are traveling on a leaky wooden barge up the Brisbane River.....They must go sooner than later.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...d/news-story/0480b28e216734ce4bc92a6f03a56dfe


THERE is no polite way to say this: in less than two years, the Palaszczuk Government has shown itself to be bungling, profligate, unethical, unscrupulous, screaming, reckless, rotten, careless and dissolute.

Historians and left-wing apologists frequently grumble that Johannes Bjelke-Petersen ran the worst government ever. I don’t buy it.

For sheer blinkered incompetence, it would be hard to top the Palaszczuk gang.

This Government is more reprehensible than any pre*sided over by the Hillbilly *Dictator.

Was Joh’s team more self-indulgent, debauched, dishonourable, wasteful, shameful and detestable? I doubt it.




Many of those who elected this Labor Government as a protest vote against Campbell Newman must be kicking themselves. Picture: Kym Smith
This Government has become unfit for its purpose. It is a relic of an obsolete and dangerous union delusion. Ministers have been sacked and others are under a cloud.

Queensland is in a bad place right now. The stench of ineptitude and union grov*elling pervades just about all they do, from cancelled trains to vital public housing projects that are mysteriously abandoned.

We still have not been told why Taskforce Maxima was gutted just as it was hitting its straps rounding up drug-pushing bikies.

By now, many of those who elected this Labor Government as a protest vote against Campbell Newman must be kicking themselves.

Palaszczuk did deals with unions and minor parties and disreputable independents after saying she would do no deals.

Water charges and power prices and rego fees have gone up, and a new property tax imposed.

Youth unemployment in some towns eclipses 30 per cent, and youth crime is out of control. Labor showed contempt for the electorate by capriciously changing the voting system with just 18 minutes’ notice to the Opposition.




Chief Justice Catherine Holmes says the Supreme Court has been overwhelmed with criminal cases and needs more resources to tackle its backlog. Picture: Claudia Baxter
It changed the entry rules to allow union thugs back on worksites. It changed the rules to allow union fat cats to hide their credit card spending from members.

In August, Parliament heard assaults had increased by 10 per cent and robberies by 8 per cent in the year.

And this week, the Supreme Court complained it did not have the resources to clear its backlog of criminal cases.

Some of this Government’s serious failures are less obvious.

Palaszczuk has no plan to spend on transport infrastructure, and the Brisbane CBD is choking.

If you don’t believe me, go to South Bank any weekday at 5pm in the electorate of Deputy Premier Jackie Trad and see how the buses stretch all the way from the cultural centre across the Victoria Bridge to North Quay. The public transport crisis is not “looming”, it is already here.

Meanwhile, sclerotic traffic flow in and out of Brisbane is now hurting the economies of the Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast and Moreton Bay.

Commuters are exasper*ated, yet bungling Transport Minister Stirling Hinchliffe has no plan that I can see.




Buses stretch all the way across Victoria Bridge, in a reflection of the public transport crisis.
Neither does Trad, the Planning and Infrastructure Minister.

Under Labor’s revised Southeast Queensland Regional Plan, the State Government has set Brisbane City Council a target of approving more than 223,000 new homes over 30 years just to keep up with the city’s growing population.

With no new rail or bus corridors planned, just how will these people get from A to B?

The State Government stopped building busways when Anna Bligh was premier. The State Infrastructure Plan has no busway projects listed for the next four years.

Having squandered its own resources, this pathetic State Government is now shifting costs to the Brisbane council, with ratepayers picking up the tab.

 

[noco]

That useless Labor Party in Victoria are causing more strife than you can poke a stick at.

They are shutting down coal fired power stations and creating havoc Alcoa with unreliable power to sustain that industry.

Now the Andrews Government in pouring in $200,000,000 of tax payers money to prop them up together with $30,000,000 of Federal Government tax payers money.

Daniel Andrews must have been born with rocks in his head.



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/a...e/news-story/a9a4c64686f022cd524499ca9ced178f

Alan Moran counts the cost:




Electricity from renewable *energy costs three times as much to produce as electricity from coal and gas. For this year, the AEMC estimates the cost of existing federal and state renewable energy programs for the average household’s electricity bills at $191 in Queensland (7 per cent of the bill), $109 in NSW, $91 in Victoria and $155 in South Australia.

But these are only the direct costs. The indirect costs, in *addition to renewable energy’s *innate unreliability, are greater.

In the first place, this is because electricity market rules mean wind and solar will always run when they are able to do so. This forces other suppliers into stop-start operations, which coal and gas baseload power stations cannot easily accommodate. Those stations are being forced to close and each such closure ramps up the wholesale electricity price.

The AEMC estimates that next year the closure of Hazelwood in Victoria will cause a cost increase of $200 for each household in the state, with lesser cost increases in other jurisdictions.

Second, wind generators *require increased network spending. The electricity market operator has put a $2.2bn cost on new transmission lines to link

 

[Tisme]

That useless Labor Party in Victoria are causing more strife than you can poke a stick at.

They are shutting down coal fired power stations and creating havoc Alcoa with unreliable power to sustain that industry.

Now the Andrews Government in pouring in $200,000,000 of tax payers money to prop them up together with $30,000,000 of Federal Government tax payers money.

Daniel Andrews must have been born with rocks in his head.

You don't want him to bail out Alcoa?

We all knew the days would come when privatization of our essential services would come to bite us on the bum. It didn't stop Liberal Premier Jeff Kennett carving it up into 5 retail companies.

Jeff also made sure Alcoa rec'd generous stipends which were up for renegotiation a few months back.

I guess my question is how inheriting a poisoned chalice of the Liberal Party's making in 1994 equates to the successor govts' fault?