Useless Labor Party

[sptrawler]

The complaints you make about Labor in opposition currently stand for how the LNP behaved when Labor was in Govt, or are you arguing that Abbott was all about constructive opposition?

Tax reform is very hard to achieve when the opposition is a friend to everyone "losing" out to reform.

Have you forgot how Abbott behaved when Gillard wanted to make sensible reforms to car FBT? Surely it's sensible policy to only allow people to claim car expenses used for work purposes, rather than the system Abbott brought back that allows all expenses to be claimed?

I'm not denying that Labor were at times not as focused as they should have been, but they don't hold all the blame for where we are. The budget rot was started by Howard and Costello, the halving of CGT directly lead to the housing boom and near doubling of household debt. Rudd should never have agreed to the last lot of tax cuts during the 07 election. Those $$$ would certainly come in handy for the budget now. But then Howard was madly cutting taxes and increasing spending at a time when the RBA was rising interest rates. If Howard had behaved more responsibly and help the RBA to limit the interest rate rises, how many tens of billions would the private sector have saved? Is it fair to ignore that very real expense to the economy?

If Labor had been lucky enough to have had the same revenue coming in as Howard they'd have run the same kind of surpluses. They kept spending lower than Howards and in their final years were actually keeping real spending growth pretty much in negative terms. Howards spending growth made the Fraser years look controlled.

The Abbott Govt is facing exactly the same crappy set of circumstances as Labor, and I find it so exquisitely funny when Costello gives the current Govt a serve via his newspaper blogs when he's unwilling to acknowledge the different circumstances we find ourselves in.

How could Labor have made changes to super taxes when Abbott had promised no changes while in opposition? Abbott even backtracked on adding a 15% tax on around 16000 super pensioners earning over 100K a year. Seriously, he's sticking up for people who'd be in the top 5% of income earners, while at the same time kicking the poorest millions who get no benefit from super as the LISC is canned. Do you honestly think Labor could have constructively worked with Abbott, the guy who lied in parliament about a pensioner's electricity bill doubling due to the carbon tax, to have come up with meaningful reform?

I agree with your sentiments, the Abbott Government has performed badly, especially when dealing with an unfriendly Senate.
Scott Morrison has been the only Abbott minister, to gain traction with his portfolio, which does indicate a definite lack of ability from the rest.
One could argue Julie Bishop has performed well, but her portfolio doesn't entail selling bad news to voters.
Turnbull has done o.k with the NBN, but he can't be judged, until there is a much larger roll out of the NBN.IMO

The only thing saving the LNP at the moment, is the terrible image Shorten is presenting. IMO he is coming across as a hypocrite and appears to portray conflicting views.

I would say he is doing exactly as Abbott was doing in opposition, however for some reason, he doesn't seem to be pulling it off as well as Abbott did.

 

[noco]

Ms. Palaszczuk must have rocks in her head...She has gone on about creating jobs in Queensland with no infrastructure plan, no plan to pay off the $80 billion racked up by Beattie and Bligh and then refusing money from the Feds....Queensland is going down the gurglar real fast...she will be a one term or half a term government and will leave another mess for the LNP to clean up.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...w-interest-loans/story-fntuy59x-1227354040333

 

[sydboy007]

Ms. Palaszczuk must have rocks in her head...She has gone on about creating jobs in Queensland with no infrastructure plan, no plan to pay off the $80 billion racked up by Beattie and Bligh and then refusing money from the Feds....Queensland is going down the gurglar real fast...she will be a one term or half a term government and will leave another mess for the LNP to clean up.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...w-interest-loans/story-fntuy59x-1227354040333

maybe she should get Abbott to subsidise Adani so they can build the biggest white elephant of a coal mine. Perpetual agreement to meet the $100 a tonne break even point with subsidies.

Oh wait, that was the previous LNP way. Fortunately saner heads prevailed.

Maybe throw in some Barnet style royalty forgiveness to small miners to keep the excess supply in play for longer, reducing the income all of Australia receives in the process. Twiggy has some pur dead brilliant ideas on these kind of schemes.

Riddle me this Noco. Why would Abbot want to "invest" in infrastructure that loses 55c in the $, but refuses to invest in infrastructure that generates a 20% return?

 

[noco]

maybe she should get Abbott to subsidise Adani so they can build the biggest white elephant of a coal mine. Perpetual agreement to meet the $100 a tonne break even point with subsidies.

Oh wait, that was the previous LNP way. Fortunately saner heads prevailed.

Maybe throw in some Barnet style royalty forgiveness to small miners to keep the excess supply in play for longer, reducing the income all of Australia receives in the process. Twiggy has some pur dead brilliant ideas on these kind of schemes.

Riddle me this Noco. Why would Abbot want to "invest" in infrastructure that loses 55c in the $, but refuses to invest in infrastructure that generates a 20% return?

So answer mew this one....where are the jobs coming from in Queensland?

 

[sydboy007]

So answer mew this one....where are the jobs coming from in Queensland?

Possibly tourism, now that the falling AUD has turned tourism from a a net loss to the economy to a mild surplus over the last 2 years.

The falling AUD may also increase the number of students at Uni and TAFEs getting doggy certifications.

Apart from that, without the willingness to borrow to invest in infrastructure that is self liquidating ie generates a real economic return, i don't see many jobs coming. That is not a QLD only issue. Where are the jobs going to come from in WA. Where does SA and VIC get skilled jobs to replace the closing care industry? How does NT replaces the jobs lost from the LNG construction boom? I bet you some in the LNP would be starting to regret their forcing the car industry to close now that the AUD would make them competitive again.

So now that I've answered you question, will you offer me the courtesy to answer mine?

Why is Abbott willing to fund a road tunnel that loses 55c in the $, but refuses to invest in a rail project that generates a 20% return?

 

[sptrawler]

"Wild Bill, Shoot from the hip Shorten".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-14/bill-shorten-proposes-5pc-tax-cut-for-small-business/6471006

Nothing changes, both sides are as bad as each other.

Ask Shorten ,why he didn't cut the tax rate when in office, if it's so important.
Then tell him we were elected, we will adopt your suggested cut, if you support budget savings proposed.
All we have is politicians trying to wrestle the agenda, absolute dicks.

Australia's future, is at the mercy of the media and self centred politicians, the rest of us are collateral damage.IMO

Bloody sad situation.

 

[noco]

Possibly tourism, now that the falling AUD has turned tourism from a a net loss to the economy to a mild surplus over the last 2 years.

The falling AUD may also increase the number of students at Uni and TAFEs getting doggy certifications.

Apart from that, without the willingness to borrow to invest in infrastructure that is self liquidating ie generates a real economic return, i don't see many jobs coming. That is not a QLD only issue. Where are the jobs going to come from in WA. Where does SA and VIC get skilled jobs to replace the closing care industry? How does NT replaces the jobs lost from the LNG construction boom? I bet you some in the LNP would be starting to regret their forcing the car industry to close now that the AUD would make them competitive again.

So now that I've answered you question, will you offer me the courtesy to answer mine?

Why is Abbott willing to fund a road tunnel that loses 55c in the $, but refuses to invest in a rail project that generates a 20% return?

POSSIBLY tourism..?????....The Aussie dollar is going up against a weak USA dollar...See today's news.
My topic of conversation was about Queensland who have a debt problem of $80 billion and you are saying Palazczuk should borrow more money......She has not told us yet how she intends to pay back the Beattie/ Bligh debt...I am a Queenslander and do not have a lot of interest in what other states do..

Palaszczuk has no infrastructure plan and will not have one for 12 months, so how can you create jobs if you don't have a plan.....Labor sat on their hands for 3 years and now they been caught out with their pants down around their ankles.

 

[sptrawler]

POSSIBLY tourism..?????....The Aussie dollar is going up against a weak USA dollar...See today's news.
My topic of conversation was about Queensland who have a debt problem of $80 billion and you are saying Palazczuk should borrow more money......She has not told us yet how she intends to pay back the Beattie/ Bligh debt...I am a Queenslander and do not have a lot of interest in what other states do..

Palaszczuk has no infrastructure plan and will not have one for 12 months, so how can you create jobs if you don't have a plan.....Labor sat on their hands for 3 years and now they been caught out with their pants down around their ankles.

I agree with noco, tourism is never going to be a viable National income of any relevance, for Australia.
We are too distant for affluent Countries, and unfortunately our points of interest are spread far afield.

We attract 8million/annum, tourists, to the whole continent.

Venice attracts 20million/annum, to a place the size of Melbourne CBD.
They can talk about the relevance of tourism to their GDP, we really can't.IMO

 

[sydboy007]

POSSIBLY tourism..?????....The Aussie dollar is going up against a weak USA dollar...See today's news.
My topic of conversation was about Queensland who have a debt problem of $80 billion and you are saying Palazczuk should borrow more money......She has not told us yet how she intends to pay back the Beattie/ Bligh debt...I am a Queenslander and do not have a lot of interest in what other states do..

Palaszczuk has no infrastructure plan and will not have one for 12 months, so how can you create jobs if you don't have a plan.....Labor sat on their hands for 3 years and now they been caught out with their pants down around their ankles.

SO basically you support Abbott in his malinvestment of public funds into infrastructure that doesn't generate an economic return, further supporting him in his withholding of funds for investments that do generate an economic return. If you could explain how that's better than Palazczuk I'm all ears.

You then complain that the QLD Govt is not rushing to invest scarce public funds until it can determine what projects stack up economically.

It wouldn't surprise me if you are all for the new Abbott proposal for public funding in the galilei basin to help the uneconomic development of coal reserves.

So what investments do you propose the QLD should engage in? What criteria would you use to judge that they are worthy of public funds?

Maybe the QLD Govt should follow the LNP in WA and come up with fanciful budget forecasts of massive levels of investment and rocketing employment growth? Somehow, by 2018 business investment is expected to remain at an astounding $45.7 billion. Gorgon, Wheatstone, Roy Hill, Sino Iron and all of the iron ore mines will be finished. RIO and BHP will still be costing out and the juniors all dead. But somehow and some way business investment is going to remain at outright boom levels in a permanently high plateau.

There's also the interesting fact that the WA Govt is forecasting I/O prices over 10% lower than Hockey, along with over 130M tonnes less exported by 2018/19 as well. What do they know that the Feds don't, or is it that Hockey needs the overly optimistic BREE forecasts to sticky tape his budget together? Could Barnett be accepting the death of FMG?

Why is it you only ever criticise Labor Govts.

 

[sydboy007]

I agree with noco, tourism is never going to be a viable National income of any relevance, for Australia.
We are too distant for affluent Countries, and unfortunately our points of interest are spread far afield.

We attract 8million/annum, tourists, to the whole continent.

Venice attracts 20million/annum, to a place the size of Melbourne CBD.
They can talk about the relevance of tourism to their GDP, we really can't.IMO

Last september we hit 77000 Chinese tourists alone. Moreover, in the year to September 2014, tourism arrivals from China hit a record 801,500, with their share of total tourists also a record 11.8%. In fact, the total number of tourist arrivals from China has more than doubled since the beginning of 2010. Chinese tourists are also some of the biggest spenders.

Since the end of 2013 when the AUD started falling the number of tourists arriving into Australia has really taken off. Can it replace the mining CAPEX boom. Definitely not, but for QLD and SYD / MEL it will be a reasonable cushioning for the fall that's coming. The good thing with tourism is it is at least fairly labour intensive. Low paying, but at least keeps people employed.

With the RBA choice to believe the forever resource boom, allowing the AUD to reach extreme overvaluation and decimate the tradeables sector, it's going to be a long slog forward for the country. It will take a decent period of a low AUD to encourage import competing industries to invest, even longer to get any form of manufacturing exporters back here.

It's quite likely we will be importing cars at higher cost with a low AUD than if we'd provided further support to the car industry.

I'm taking the brief reprieve of the higher AUD to get more funds off shore. The oncoming recession is one we didn't need to have, at least not as bad as it's going to be, but that's the price we pay for a lost decade of poor policies from both sides of the fence.

It's easy to blame Labor, but the fiscal rot started with the profligate spending of the Howard years and the lack of political leadership means any reforms will not be willingly undertaken. When we're facing capital flight will be when we start to make very costly and community destroying changes. It needn't be this way, but then we have a media more concerned about the Depp Dogs than it is about the oncoming economic crash, and I have little sympathy for us. We get the Govt we deserve.

 

[wayneL]

So Syd, does Shorten's budget reply address any of these issues? Or make them a whole lot worse?

 

[sydboy007]

So Syd, does Shorten's budget reply address any of these issues? Or make them a whole lot worse?

haven't diggested everything that Shorten said. Not sure how we fund a further drop in corporate taxation. I do like the idea of increased funding for STEMS degrees as it's something we're falling very far behind on.

The concept of making it easier for businesses to get loans could be good, though not sure if workable with a slowing economy? Once you get Govt involved with these kind sof things people tend to blame their own failings on the Govt.

Prob the best idea is to give Infrastructure Australia the same kind of independence as the RBA. Anything that can get the politics out of infrastructure investment, and ensure we commit scare puiblic funds to only projects that are self liquidating, the better. Abbott has backtracked too much on his pre-election commitment for a CBA on all investments over $100M

What do you believe Abbott has done in the last year and half that's helped to move the budget towards balance? Fuel excise indexation is about all I can think of that's decent policy, though I'd prefer it to run for a 3 year period as I believe Govt should make the case for the revenue it wants to extract. having automatic increase in revenue creates lazy wasteful Govts.

Is Abbott being sensible to have pre-empted the tax white paper by ruling out so much already, something the LNP were rightly critical over Labor with the Henry tax review. IS Abbott sensible to rule out funding for rail, even when it provides a better economic return than the road projects he's so fond of? IS Abbott sensible to suggest investing in unecomic coal projects that the private sector has deemed not worth investing in?

Both sides are to blame, but the LNP are currently in Govt and should be doing the heavy lifting on getting the public to accept meaningful reform is required. Then if Labor tried to block sensible policy, hopefully the voters wont reward them like they did with Abbott.

I find it funny that people who are now questioning Abbott didn't see this is where he was going to end up. How could anyone believe he was going to:

* Cut taxes (revenue)

* Increase spending

* Get the budget back to surplus

All while the biggest mining boom in Aussie history was coming to an end and the ToT was destined to continue falling for years to come till it gets back around the long term average? Labor were promising a unicoron for everyone, but Abbott one upped them with his flying unicorn, though we're now realising it was really a knackered old horse.

 

[Tink]

Syd, don't even go there with this useless Labor/Green Government we have in Victoria.

He takes the $1.5 billion and wastes $1 billion to not build a road,

Then decides to take on the West side of the link.
Now he wants the CityLink establishment to build it - Transurban Group
https://www.citylink.com.au/

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/l...-abbott-moves-to-back-it-20150507-ggwnbq.html

Decides he shouldn't give back the money and if he does, we are in deficit.
We have some people clogged up for two hours trying to get home on the east.

They still can't say where $10B of Melb Metro funding will come from.

A public holiday that no one wants for the day BEFORE the Grand Final.

The Public Service and the Unions will be the only winners out of this Andrews Labor government.

Property owners face dramatic Fire Services Property Levy rise
http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/ne...operty-levy-rise/story-fnkfnspy-1227351716535

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28524&page=12

 

[noco]

So Syd, does Shorten's budget reply address any of these issues? Or make them a whole lot worse?

Shorten did not address where the money will come from with his hare brain scheme of free uni degrees for 100,000.
Shorten did not address how he will reduce the debt and deficit left by Rudd ans Gillard....He already has indicated a $52 billion black hole between spending and income....I mean, the man is an economic illiterate.


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...ortens_make_or_break_speech_update_its_break/

 

[sydboy007]

Shorten did not address where the money will come from with his hare brain scheme of free uni degrees for 100,000.
Shorten did not address how he will reduce the debt and deficit left by Rudd ans Gillard....He already has indicated a $52 billion black hole between spending and income....I mean, the man is an economic illiterate.


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...ortens_make_or_break_speech_update_its_break/

What did Abbott and Hockey do with the budget this year to get the deficit under control?

The forecasts they're using are so out of whack that by the end it will be clear to see that the deficit wil close to $50B than the $35B predicted.

Bit no worries, Abbott will have that coal being dug up from the gaililei and on ships to...nowhere....since there's just no demand for the stuff.

Abbott and Barnet, reliant on fantasy predictions to keep the punters believing in their economic management skills

 

[sydboy007]

Syd, don't even go there with this useless Labor/Green Government we have in Victoria.

He takes the $1.5 billion and wastes $1 billion to not build a road,

Then decides to take on the West side of the link.
Now he wants the CityLink establishment to build it - Transurban Group
https://www.citylink.com.au/

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/l...-abbott-moves-to-back-it-20150507-ggwnbq.html

Decides he shouldn't give back the money and if he does, we are in deficit.
We have some people clogged up for two hours trying to get home on the east.

They still can't say where $10B of Melb Metro funding will come from.

A public holiday that no one wants for the day BEFORE the Grand Final.

The Public Service and the Unions will be the only winners out of this Andrews Labor government.

Property owners face dramatic Fire Services Property Levy rise
http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/ne...operty-levy-rise/story-fnkfnspy-1227351716535

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28524&page=12

Tink

can you explain why the previous Liberal Govt rushed to sign the contracts? They knew Labor was against the project, they knew that there was a lot of support for Labors stance against the project.

What was the harm to have allowed the voters to choose? The Liberals did their best to force the issue onto tax payers. I'm sure your reaction would be very different if Labor had been doing side deals with the various companies to try and enforce obscene penalties on the Govt if the contract was revoked.

There was no sound economic reason why the Liberal's couldn't have waited 3 months to sign the contract.

 

[noco]

What did Abbott and Hockey do with the budget this year to get the deficit under control?

The forecasts they're using are so out of whack that by the end it will be clear to see that the deficit wil close to $50B than the $35B predicted.

Bit no worries, Abbott will have that coal being dug up from the gaililei and on ships to...nowhere....since there's just no demand for the stuff.

Abbott and Barnet, reliant on fantasy predictions to keep the punters believing in their economic management skills

Well for a start he has encouraged small business to buy equipment for their business which helps other business to survive with increased demand for labour, which in turn produces more tax income....It is what they call stimulus.

The deficit will still be way below Labor's predicted deficit.

 

[sydboy007]

Well for a start he has encouraged small business to buy equipment for their business which helps other business to survive with increased demand for labour, which in turn produces more tax income....It is what they call stimulus.

The deficit will still be way below Labor's predicted deficit.

So Labor deficit spending = BAD

Liberal deficit spending = GOOD

Wasn't the building the Building the Education Revolution along the same lines ie Govt money into the pockets of various builders and traddies which helped those business survive with increased demand, which in turn produces more tax income? wasn't that part of the reasoning behind the pink batts? Wasn't that behind the cheques in the mail to consumers?

The business equipment will turn into a giant rort by small businesses. I can see lots opf business equipment somehow finding it's way home and being used by the kids and other family members.

Shouldn't really surprise me, what with Abbott happy to have the car FBT rort continue, though for some reason when it's mainly women getting the rort he's dead set against it.

Anywho, if you think the small sugar hit of a few billion in extra spending is going to do diddly squat against 2-3% of GDP falls in mining CAPEX you really need to get a deeper understanding of the economy.

Govt revenue down, consumer spending down, export income down, wages growth down.

If you can point me to a politician who's being honest about the next few years I'll give them my vote.

Just remember, Pyne swore blind the Libs could have run surpluses through the GFC, and things ain't as bad now, so why the deficits? Hockey has gone from a first budget surplus to maybe a first term to just stabilising the deficit as a % of GDP as how he'll define his economic accomplishments.

 

[noco]

So Labor deficit spending = BAD

Liberal deficit spending = GOOD

Wasn't the building the Building the Education Revolution along the same lines ie Govt money into the pockets of various builders and traddies which helped those business survive with increased demand, which in turn produces more tax income? wasn't that part of the reasoning behind the pink batts? Wasn't that behind the cheques in the mail to consumers?

The business equipment will turn into a giant rort by small businesses. I can see lots opf business equipment somehow finding it's way home and being used by the kids and other family members.

Shouldn't really surprise me, what with Abbott happy to have the car FBT rort continue, though for some reason when it's mainly women getting the rort he's dead set against it.

Anywho, if you think the small sugar hit of a few billion in extra spending is going to do diddly squat against 2-3% of GDP falls in mining CAPEX you really need to get a deeper understanding of the economy.

Govt revenue down, consumer spending down, export income down, wages growth down.

If you can point me to a politician who's being honest about the next few years I'll give them my vote.

Just remember, Pyne swore blind the Libs could have run surpluses through the GFC, and things ain't as bad now, so why the deficits? Hockey has gone from a first budget surplus to maybe a first term to just stabilising the deficit as a % of GDP as how he'll define his economic accomplishments.

Knowing the Labor/Green socialist left wing part's history on financial management, the $52 billion deficit they forecast will double to $104 billion....Just how much will the 100,000 free uni degrees cost?

Swannie told us the budget would be in surplus as promised and on time in 2013 and confirmed by Juliar.....Before the election we were told by Swannie, "Sorry fellows its blown out to $18 billion", but in actual fact it was $48 billion.
Labor did not even fund the Gonski and DIHS ....Swannie spent the mining tax money that he did not receive.....

What a joke

 

[noco]

Knowing the Labor/Green socialist left wing part's history on financial management, the $52 billion deficit they forecast will double to $104 billion....Just how much will the 100,000 free uni degrees cost?

Swannie told us the budget would be in surplus as promised and on time in 2013 and confirmed by Juliar.....Before the election we were told by Swannie, "Sorry fellows its blown out to $18 billion", but in actual fact it was $48 billion.
Labor did not even fund the Gonski and DIHS ....Swannie spent the mining tax money that he did not receive.....

What a joke

Perhaps our Billy boy should be the first to do a maths course.


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...|heading|homepage|homepage&itmt=1431676830448

What Bill Shorten promised in his Budget reply speech:

...we will write off the HECS debt of 100,000 science technology, engineering and maths students

Wow. Each three-year degree in these fields costs each student $22,500 in HECS fees. So making 100,000 degrees free would cost the Government $2.25 billion.

But here’s what Shorten said today this promise would cost:

We made it very clear with our costings that it was $45 million across forward estimates [four years] for scholarships to kick start kids being encouraged to go into science, maths and engineering..

How does Labor explain the difference between $2.25 billion and its claim of $45 million?

First try:

Labor’s accompanying fact sheet said the policy would begin with 20,000 award degrees in 2017 ...

Oh, so Labor’s figures are for actually a fifth of its promise? But 20,000 times $22,500 equals $450,000,000, not Shorten’s $45,000,000.

I fear Shorten simply lost a zero on his figures, and his promise costs 10 times more than he said - and the full cost is 50 times more.

But Shorten has proved one thing: we sure do need more maths teachers.