University killing in USA

[2020hindsight]

Brujo
yep, you qualified that comment at the time (get over 9/11) - still you said it was food for thought, so .. I was just "chewing it over"

Giuliani sure isn't about to forget. Arguably too far the other way (never was prepared to talk to them even before 9/11).

Interesting article in Time about President Fuhgeddaboutit (Rudiy Giuliani is apparently frontrunner for Republican ticket) - current NY Mayor. Not even prepared to talk to Arabs - "in 1995 he unceremoniously kicked Arafat out of the UN related concert for world leaders at the Lincoln Centre - just after Israel agreed to Palestinian self rule" - Clinton administration were courting Arafat at the time, but Giuliani said "I would not invite Arafat to anything anywhere any place." etc. As Time concludes "when it comes to diplomacy, Fuhgeddaboutit"

"The second incident occurred just after 9/11. Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Tala handed Giuliani a cheque for USD $10 million to help relief efforts, but the cheque was accompanied by a press release in which the Prince said it was time to get to the roots of the problem in the Middle East, which included Palestinians "slaughtered" by Israel "while the world turns thye other cheek". Giuliani refused to accept the money. "There is no moral equivalent [for the 9/11 attacks]" he said. "And to suggest that there's a justification for it only invites this happening in thefuture. It is highly irresponsible and very very dangerous."

They (TIME) go on to say that they probably would do the same (paraphrasing), BUT "there is a difference between what is appropriate for a mayor and what is appropriate for a President" "'I don't forget' is not a sufficiently flexible foreign policy doctrine"

The following is NOT the same TIME article, just someone (US) writing to the editor at TIME.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1615166,00.html

In "President Fuhgeddaboutit" [April 23], Joe Klein concluded that since Americans are tired of distinguishing between Sunnis and Shi'ites and tired of our disastrous involvement overseas, we would opt for a "fuhgeddaboutit" foreign policy. Americans want an end to the Iraq war, while Rudolph Giuliani supports the troop surge. Americans are also concerned about our international standing in the world. I think we would embrace a person who would talk to Arabs and, yes, even distinguish between Sunnis and Shi'ites. After suffering through eight years of the most corrupt, arrogant Administration, the last thing Americans want is a rude, corrupt, belligerent bully like Giuliani in the White House. I, for one, will take pragmatism and diplomacy any day. Carol .., BLUE LAKE, CALIF.

meanwhile he is apparently frontrunner... Both McCain or Giuliani seem locked into prolonging the Iraq war it seems (as I read it). despite " growing public calls for US troops to return home rapidly". You would have to expect that there's a good chance that Democrats will get in in 2008 yes?

http://abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200704/s1906620.htm
McCain formally launches White House bid
Republican Senator John McCain has formally confirmed he is running for the White House, seeking to revive a campaign bogged down by missteps, controversy over his support for the Iraq war, and lacklustre fundraising.

"Today I announce my candidacy for president of the United States," Mr McCain said in Portsmouth, in the key state of New Hampshire, considered a major testing ground for candidates because it hosts the first party primary elections.

It was in New Hampshire that Mr McCain, scored an upset primary victory in the 2000 race, before being defeated for the Republican nomination by George W Bush, now in his second term as US president.

"I'm running for president to protect our country from harm and defeat its enemies. I'm running for president to make the government do its job," he told a crowd in a televised speech.

A former Navy pilot held captive in Vietnam, Mr McCain highlighted his political and battlefield experiences. "I know how to fight, and I know how to make peace," the 70-year-old senator said.

"I'm not the youngest candidate. But I am the most experienced." Following the high-profile New Hampshire event, Mr McCain was scheduled to head to South Carolina, Iowa and Nevada, also considered key states in the race for the Republican nomination.

This is a critical moment for McCain, with opinion polls showing he trails far behind former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani. An April 10 Gallup survey had Mr Giuliani getting 38 per cent of voter intentions, to 16 per cent for Mr McCain.
Mr McCain, who was still considered the favourite for the Republican nomination at the end of last year, has suffered major setbacks over his position on the Iraq war.

He is the Republican candidate most supportive of the war - though he has harshly criticised the US administration's handling of it. "We've made mistakes, and we've paid for them," said Mr McCain, who strongly supports Mr Bush's "surge" plan to send 25,000 extra troops to Iraq to quell sectarian violence there.

His stance on Iraq contrasts with growing public calls for US troops to return home rapidly. Earlier this month, an opinion poll published by the Los Angeles Times showed 65 per cent of Americans disagreed with the way the war is led. The Arizona senator is also lagging behind in campaign fundraising.

 

[2020hindsight]

Correction to prevoius - Mayor of NY until Dec 2001.
Just to get back on thread - he was tough on crime and was pretty successful apparently..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani Rudolph William Louis Giuliani III (born May 28, 1944) is an American lawyer, prosecutor, businessman, and Republican politician from the state of New York.

Giulani became a popular figure as a United States Attorney prosecuting medium/high-profile cases, including cases against organized crime and the tax evader Marc Rich. He served two terms as Mayor of New York City (1994–2001), during which time he was credited by many with initiating improvements in the city's quality of life and with a massive reduction in crime that would by 2005 make New York City the country's safest major city."

Others, however, criticized him as divisive and authoritarian[2] and disputed his role in reducing crime.[9] He gained notoriety for his use of the "perp walk" as a prosecutorial tool.[10] He then gained national attention for his appearances in the media during and after the September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center[3] that led him to be named Time's 2001 Person of the Year[4] and be knighted by Queen Elizabeth II.[5] His high media profile in the days following the attacks earned him the nickname "America's Mayor."

But again , that TIME article summarises that "The next US President is going to haveto be a nimble diplomat, willing ttalk tocountries people don't like and leaders considered abhorrent".

As that lady implies in her letter to the editor, when you're in a mess like the world is in at the moment, you have to be a bit pragmatic surely.

.... I think we would embrace a person who would talk to Arabs and, yes, even distinguish between Sunnis and Shi'ites. After suffering through eight years of the most corrupt, arrogant Administration, the last thing Americans want is a rude, corrupt, belligerent bully like Giuliani in the White House. I, for one, will take pragmatism and diplomacy any day

This is the legacy of GW Bush - others will have to sort it out.

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200705/s1911471.htm
gee this must have been a tough decision
doh

Virginia tightens gun laws after uni massacre
The US state of Virginia has moved to tighten its gun laws in the wake of last month's massacre on the campus of Virginia Tech University.

Virginia Governor, Timothy Kaine, has banned people who have been ordered to have involuntary mental health treatment from purchasing guns.

South Korean student Cho Seung-hui, who was responsible for the killing of 32 people at Virginia Tech, was able to buy weapons despite having a history of mental illness

 

[2020hindsight]

A couple of nice songs written for the kids who died.
- some talented people out there. - to "help the healing"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G0hdZeK7ss Virginia Tech Memorial-There's No Sunset in Virginia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPy1c3IT1V0&NR=1 Say My Name - Virginia Tech Tragedy Tribute