U.S. Presidential Election 2012

[Aussiejeff]

Ya gotta love the Yanks......

http://go.bloomberg.com/political-capital/2012-11-07/obama-wins-gun-stocks-surge/

I particularly noted the fact that gun sales have surged by +10% p.a. during the Obamacare admin compared to GW's meagerly +7% p.a. The populace is arming itself for what?

Welcome to dystopia?

 

[Calliope]

The changing demography indicates that this was the Republicans last chance.

But the most significant critique will be the one that says the party simply failed to catch up with the changing face of America.. Exit polls showed that Mr Romney won handily among white Americans - almost six in 10 of them - but lost by breathtaking margins among the nation's increasingly important ethnic groups: By almost 40 percentage points among Hispanics, by almost 50 points among Asians, and by more than 80 points among African-Americans.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...nge-with-america/story-fnay3ubk-1226512461420

 

[MrBurns]

The changing demography indicates that this was the Republicans last chance.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...nge-with-america/story-fnay3ubk-1226512461420

Well hasn't the landscape changed, a white Presidential candidate beaten by a black man assisted by a huge ethnic populaton. Thats not a racist remark by the way just an observation that the make up of the US population has had a fundamental shift away from the traditional white dominance.

 

[Knobby22]

Also he didn't do well with the female vote.
So its Wasps vs the rest. I think they need to broaden their base if they want to get in.

 

[Calliope]

The market has passed judgement on Obama's re-election - back to earth with a thud.:bad:

U.S. stocks Wednesday tumbled to their lowest levels in three months as investors worried about the implications of President Obama's re-election and fretted over the looming fiscal fight in Congress. The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped 267 points, or 2%, to 12979 in early afternoon trading Wednesday. The Standard & Poor's 500-stock index gave up 28 points, or 1.9%, to 1401.

 

[moXJO]

Yeah, this could be interesting. The GOP risks losing voters if they continue to stand in the way don't they?

CanOz

US seems divided at the worst possible time. They really need to put politics aside and start to tackle the problem.

 

[McLovin]

Romney was a pretty moderate Republican, you don't become governor of Massachusetts if you're a die hard conservative. But then he got dragged further and further right. The Reps can blame Hispanics and blacks and women but the reality is that they cornered themselves into an ever smaller circle of tea partiers and Christian fundies. Hispanics generally a) are conservative b) don't like blacks. They should have voted for Romney but he changed his views on immigration to suit the far right of the Reps.

 

[young-gun]

Young-gun, you want enthusiasm? Do you also want the hysterical acolytes of the American leaders where they have a rally and the leader utters six words and then is drowned out by maniacal cheering from the audience before he has said anything of substance, if indeed he was ever going to? Can you ever imagine hundreds of thousands of Australians worshipping any politician as the Americans do?
I can't and thank heaven for that.

Not at all. I do however want an ACTUAL leader. By leader I mean someone who inspires people, instills confidence and faith in people (not religious faith). A leader who influences people in a positive manner.

Julia Gillard is 'leading' us by default. How can you expect anyone to cheer for her when stands up in front of cameras with that nasally Kath and Kim like pitch.

My point is, regardless of what he is saying when he speaks, he speaks convincingly, he speaks with power, with passion and confidence, imo as a great leader should. Regardless of whether he is any good for the country or not, when I look at him or see pictures I see a leader.

Can you imagine Gillards speech if she were to win an election? You would need to end it with an air horn to ensure everyone wakes up to know to go home. Australia government, both parties, need a massive over-haul. I despise Australian politics.

 

[wayneL]

Not at all. I do however want an ACTUAL leader. By leader I mean someone who inspires people, instills confidence and faith in people (not religious faith). A leader who influences people in a positive manner.

At one point in time, Adolf Hitler fitted the bill.

 

[young-gun]

At one point in time, Adolf Hitler fitted the bill.

I don't know that he was inspiring in a positive manner? But he was a fantastic leader. He carried out horrific and terrible acts which I am in no way supporting, but he was a great leader. From memory(i saw some film or documentary or something a long time ago) it was his ability to speak influentially and convincingly that started it all. Whether or not the film was accurate I'm not sure.

Sorry for drifting off topic.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Can you imagine Gillards speech if she were to win an election? You would need to end it with an air horn to ensure everyone wakes up to know to go home.

: lol

Let's go back a few centuries. Some of those old Chinamen had a few clues (unlike the present day control freaks).

“The best leaders are those the people hardly know exist.
The next best is a leader who is loved and praised.
Next comes the one who is feared.
The worst one is the leader that is despised.

If you don't trust the people,
they will become untrustworthy (hello China?? Have you forgotten about Lao Tzu?).

The best leaders value their words, and use them sparingly.
When she has accomplished her task,
the people say, "Amazing:
we did it, all by ourselves!"

~The Great Lao Tzu

 

[wayneL]

I don't know that he was inspiring in a positive manner? But he was a fantastic leader. He carried out horrific and terrible acts which I am in no way supporting, but he was a great leader. From memory(i saw some film or documentary or something a long time ago) it was his ability to speak influentially and convincingly that started it all. Whether or not the film was accurate I'm not sure.

Sorry for drifting off topic.

Talk to any German from the era, initially he was an inspiring leader and rescued Germany economically from the pits of the Weimar Republic and its aftermath. If he left it there he would have been remembered as one of the greats.

Then his megalomania asserted itself .

 

[noco]

Obama is a socialist left and a good mate of Gillard's.

Nuff said.

 

[Miss Hale]

To be a good leader you need to have the respect of the people you lead. To have the respect of those you lead you need to earn it. Unfortunately many leaders these days think that just by attaining the position of leadership they will have respect/be a good leader automatically. Once you get the the position the job has only just begun.

 

[CanOz]

To be a good leader you need to have the respect of the people you lead. To have the respect of those you lead you need to earn it. Unfortunately many leaders these days think that just by attaining the position of leadership they will have respect/be a good leader automatically. Once you get the the position the job has only just begun.

+1 - Well said.

Actually as an aside, in many Asian cultures Trust is earned and Respect is granted, where as in many western cultures, Trust is granted and Respect is earned. Typically the opposite...

CanOz

 

[orr]

Can you ever imagine hundreds of thousands of Australians worshipping any politician as the Americans do?
I can't and thank heaven for that.

"
He was a tough, hard-nosed politician not given to compromise but upon his death, still in office, his adversaries as well as his colleagues wept unashamedly at his passing and 300,000 people lined Sydney’s streets along the course of his funeral procession.

What made Joe Cahill remarkable in a world of political cynicism was that essentially he was an ordinary man who was driven by a sincere conviction that all people, rich or poor, had the right to share the good things of life. That, really, was why he risked his career to achieve what must have seemed an impossible dream – the Sydney Opera House for which he is most remembered."

NSW Labour Premier 52-59, I wouldn't say worship But respect where respect is due.

 

[wayneL]

+1 - Well said.

Actually as an aside, in many Asian cultures Trust is earned and Respect is granted, where as in many western cultures, Trust is granted and Respect is earned. Typically the opposite...

CanOz

I had to think about that a moment... interesting observation.

Is the typical Westerner more naive than the typical Easterner, or are there other factors?

 

[CanOz]

I had to think about that a moment... interesting observation.

Is the typical Westerner more naive than the typical Easterner, or are there other factors?

I think we used to live in a less competitive society. Our values of truth and honesty would hold us in good steed during negotiations. In Asia, its assumed everyone is trying to rip everyone else off, so the trust needs to be built by fostering relationships...Guanxi. Respect on the other hand, is given to people in postions of authority, whether they deserve it or not.

Sorry to take this off topic.

In reference to the election of leaders though, Asians tend to respect their leaders regardless of whether they earned it or not, where as we tend to be skeptical of them until they prove themselves.

I suspect much of this is just the difference between a developed world with freedom of expression going back a few generations versus developing nations just started to express themselves as they wish.


CanOz

 

[wayneL]

I think we used to live in a less competitive society. Our values of truth and honesty would hold us in good steed during negotiations. In Asia, its assumed everyone is trying to rip everyone else off, so the trust needs to be built by fostering relationships...Guanxi. Respect on the other hand, is given to people in postions of authority, whether they deserve it or not.

Sorry to take this off topic.

In reference to the election of leaders though, Asians tend to respect their leaders regardless of whether they earned it or not, where as we tend to be skeptical of them until they prove themselves.

I suspect much of this is just the difference between a developed world with freedom of expression going back a few generations versus developing nations just started to express themselves as they wish.


CanOz

Interesting. Thanks.

I sense a convergence will play out in the next decades, where East and West might not be appreciably different... sadly.

 

[doctorj]

+1 - Well said.

Actually as an aside, in many Asian cultures Trust is earned and Respect is granted, where as in many western cultures, Trust is granted and Respect is earned. Typically the opposite...

CanOz

Extremely interesting observation and very well articulated. Thanks for sharing!

Does this dynamic also apply to the unelected political classes in the east?

I'm trying to apply your trust/respect paradigm to the politicians of Eastern Europe and Central Asia, the developing markets with which I'm familiar and I'm not so sure where they lie on the spectrum. There certainly is little trust and any respect is probably borne out of fear (fear of persecution, fear of incarceration, fear of falling from favour or fear of having your wealth/livelihood taken away).

In business, I would say they are closer to Asians – quite deferential to their more senior peers or colleagues, particularly hierarchical, but not particularly trusting.