TSLA - Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ)

[Value Collector]

I wont be surprised if the eventual solution is an ICE using a environmentally sustainable fuel or even a entirely new propulsion unit that has yet to be invented.

Even if we find an new liquid fuel, Traditional ICE cars are still to inefficient, compared to EV.

A car that used the liquid fuel in a fuel cell to generate electricity to run the EV would be much better than a ICE car.

think about it, even hybrids that simply have a combustion engine to charge batteries Out perform traditional ice cars but simply replacing the drive chain with an electrical drive chain.

 

[Value Collector]

Can I ask you this.
If a combustion engine produces zero emissions and can supported using existing industry’s, why would you want car?

I am guessing you meant "Why wouldn't you want that car"

here are my reason I would prefer the EV

1, I can charge at home avoiding wasting time going to service stations.

2, Charging at home using my solar panels (like I am doing right know), is going to be more energy efficient than liquid fuel source.

3, charging EV's also uses existing infrastructure, and we will have less tanker trucks on our roads and highways.

4, As I said explain EV's are a more efficient use of the energy.

there are others, but my wife just called and lunch is ready

 

[Muckman]

I’m not talking about personal preference here. I’m talking about engineering and what’s logical.
Not everyone has the opportunity to plug their car in at night more then 10 hours at a time and only use it ones a day.
I highly suggest you learn how cars a built and what actually goes into making a car. The car industry is a terrible industry to be in, being that you only make a 4% profit on every car you sell make a . I wouldn’t be surprised if Telsta actually makes a loss on his cars. His company how ever might be doing ok but his cars probably don’t make money . They just don’t make enough of them to sell. I just don’t see Tesla going any further and I belt their car industry is at a end.
The only reason why they have gotten this far is because the majority of auto manufacturers haven’t taken it seriously until till now.
VAG have ramped up there efforts greatly and I do believe this will be the end of Tesla as we know it.
VW and Audi are gearing up to release there EV line soon and it’s unbelievable what they are doing and they have the strength to back it up and ya e the manufacturing facilities around the world already. Tesla don’t. There production line is too slow.
Why would you buy a Tesla for $90,000 when you can get a VW FOR $40,000?

or just keep your existing car and use synthetic fuel lol save ya money

 

[Value Collector]

]

I’m not talking about personal preference here. I’m talking about engineering and what’s logical.
Not everyone has the opportunity to plug their car in at night more then 10 hours at a time and only use it ones a day.
I highly suggest you learn how cars a built and what actually goes into making a car. The car industry is a terrible industry to be in, being that you only make a 4% profit on every car you sell make a . I wouldn’t be surprised if Telsta actually makes a loss on his cars. His company how ever might be doing ok but his cars probably don’t make money . They just don’t make enough of them to sell. I just don’t see Tesla going any further and I belt their car industry is at a end.
The only reason why they have gotten this far is because the majority of auto manufacturers haven’t taken it seriously until till now.
VAG have ramped up there efforts greatly and I do believe this will be the end of Tesla as we know it.
VW and Audi are gearing up to release there EV line soon and it’s unbelievable what they are doing and they have the strength to back it up and ya e the manufacturing facilities around the world already. Tesla don’t. There production line is too slow.
Why would you buy a Tesla for $90,000 when you can get a VW FOR $40,000?

or just keep your existing car and use synthetic fuel lol save ya money

You are right, only about 90% of people could charge their cars at home, Others will have to use fast charging locations, so EVs only suit 95% of the population at the moment.

As for your opinion on Tesla as a company, we will just wait and see, for now they are going from strength to strength, before you suggest I learn more about manufacturing of cars, maybe you should learn more about the profit margins Tesla is already achieving on the cars they sell.

 

[galumay]

I don’t think car racing has any relevance to how any or us use our cars in our daily life.

Nearly every single thing we take for granted i our cars in daily life is the result of advances made in car racing.I would caution against dismissing it as the source of future advances.

but, I can kinda of tell you have you mind made up, and probably don’t want to delve into the side of things.

There is a bit of pot, kettle, black in that statement! Neither of you seem very open to considering the other's viewpoint.

Charging at home using my solar panels (like I am doing right know), is going to be more energy efficient than liquid fuel source.

Maybe, but solar panels are horribly inefficient in terms of the materials to make them, the associated mining and processing, the waste and the all the environmental issues with batteries.

I think there are still a lot of moving parts in this story, its certainly not over yet, my guess is odds are Tesla fails, while disrupting legacy players, reasonable possibility that final solution for transportation energy wont be EV's with batteries, new fuels will extend life of ICE's in many applications from much longer than people initially guessed, EV's from mainstream car makers will likely dominate inner city, low volume, short haul transportation in the short to medium term, remembering that many more things can happen than will happen, and we are nearly always wrong when assume we know what the future holds.

Anyway, I am out of this thread, I have no interest in Tesla as an investor nor as a car owner, so my energy is better spent elsewhere. It will be fascinating to see what the next few decades hold for personal mass transportation.

 

[Muckman]

 

[Value Collector]

View attachment 106958

You are confusing the total profit or loss of the company with the profit margin on each vehicle they sell, you originally claimed that they were losing money on each vehicle they sell, which is not true.

Tesla is currently making pretty decent profit margins on each vehicle they sell.

however at a company level they have reported losses in recent years due to other activities such as building out the charging network, research and development of their driverless systems, building new factories etc etc

 

[Value Collector]

Nearly every single thing we take for granted i our cars in daily life is the result of advances made in car racing.I would caution against dismissing it as the source of future advances.

My point is simply The fact that electric vehicle racing is hindered with charging taking longer than liquid fueling is not relevant to how any of us drive our cars in daily life

There is a bit of pot, kettle, black in that statement! Neither of you seem very open to considering the other's viewpoint.

Not at all, I understand where he is coming from, I have done quite a bit of research into synthetic fuels. I have discussed them in the other thread, shared videos about how they are made, and am pretty excited about them for the future of the airline industry etc

But, as I am trying to explain to here, they simply just don't sense for vehicles.

Maybe, but solar panels are horribly inefficient in terms of the materials to make them, the associated mining and processing, the waste and the all the environmental issues with batteries.

not compared to the amount of coal they offset over their life, and the fact that their materials will end up being recycled.

 

[Muckman]

That was my point. The profit of the cars.
They are struggling as it is, soon as the VAG start to take the Ev market seriously, it will lead the way in innovation of ev production and it will be very hard for Tesla to compete with an auto motive giant.
I just don’t think the whole battery vehicle is ever going to take off. Hens why no company has taken it seriously.
Battery cars have been nothing more then a gimmick for manufacturers. The racing industry is the real truth to the superior technology and frankly I don’t see a battery car finishing the 24h Le mans
Remember, diesel cars were not Evan considered an option till Audi proved the TDI technology at Le Mans. Before the diesel gate scandal diesel car’s was the be all end all.

 

[Value Collector]

That was my point. The profit of the cars.
They are struggling as it is, soon as the VAG start to take the Ev market seriously, it will lead the way in innovation of ev production and it will be very hard for Tesla to compete with an auto motive giant.
I just don’t think the whole battery vehicle is ever going to take off. Hens why no company has taken it seriously.
Battery cars have been nothing more then a gimmick for manufacturers. The racing industry is the real truth to the superior technology and frankly I don’t see a battery car finishing the 24h Le mans
Remember, diesel cars were not Evan considered an option till Audi proved the TDI technology at Le Mans. Before the diesel gate scandal diesel car’s was the be all end all.

You are still a bit confused, Tesla is making over 10% profit margin on every car they sell, ford for example makes about 5%.

So they aren’t losing money on every car they sell as you claimed. (have you actually looked at their annual reports?)

So far no other car company has a product on the market that can even compete with the 2012 Model S, so Tesla are way ahead of the competition.

but I don’t whether other car companies end up getting into the game, If some one makes a better car than Tesla is 10 years I will buy that one.

but at the moment it’s a bit like saying “just wait till Nokia bring out a smart phone, then they will smash Apple” you know that never happened, Tesla may be so far ahead of the curve that other manufacturers won’t be able to compete.

ofcourse 1 or 2 of them may become “Samsung” in the smart phone analogy.

 

[ducati916]

jog on
duc

 

[Muckman]

but at the moment it’s a bit like saying “just wait till Nokia bring out a smart phone, then they will smash Apple” you know that never happened, Tesla may be so far ahead of the curve that other manufacturers won’t be able to compete.

ofcourse 1 or 2 of them may become “Samsung” in the smart phone analogy.

I don’t see how that’s relevant? The VAG is a way larger automotive company then telsa.

 

[Muckman]

View attachment 106973 View attachment 106974

jog on
duc

I don’t see any reason why anyone would brag about sale reports at a time like this. Everyone is hurting and it’s go Notting to do with outcome of product or what people want. Australian auto industry is hurting something shocking. The closing of ford and hold plants and now all Holden dealers and soon to be Honda dealers to pull out of of Australia is just not good
Covid restrictions is just the final nail in the coffin.
The only thing I like about Tesla is the fact they sell their own cars.
Biggest thing I hate is talking to a 3rd party dealer. Specially with parts. Unfortunately parts departments in Australia is just out of control. When bmw sell a bearing shell for $100 for something that is worth $10 is the reason why Australian automotive industry is failing.
We need to start building our own cars again.

 

[Lucky777]

Tesla is making new factories during a “economic downturn”, deliveries percentage based is increasing while automakers are decreasing. It’s not all about just being a electric vehicle, look more into it. 2 automakers CEO’s have recently praised that Tesla is ahead of the game.

Their margin has increased per vehicle sold and will continue to increase with improved batteries and manufacturing costs.

 

[Value Collector]

I don’t see how that’s relevant? The VAG is a way larger automotive company then telsa.

I am not sure how VAG can be an argument against EVs, they are releasing their own EVs.

But Nokia was the worlds biggest phone company too, that didn’t save them.

have you seen the speed that Tesla is opening factories? They aren’t a little player anymore.

 

[Value Collector]

I don’t see any reason why anyone would brag about sale reports at a time like this. Everyone is hurting and it’s go Notting to do with outcome of product or what people want. Australian auto industry is hurting something shocking. The closing of ford and hold plants and now all Holden dealers and soon to be Honda dealers to pull out of of Australia is just not good
Covid restrictions is just the final nail in the coffin.
The only thing I like about Tesla is the fact they sell their own cars.
Biggest thing I hate is talking to a 3rd party dealer. Specially with parts. Unfortunately parts departments in Australia is just out of control. When bmw sell a bearing shell for $100 for something that is worth $10 is the reason why Australian automotive industry is failing.
We need to start building our own cars again.

The first two cars I owned were Holden commodores, all my family cars growing up were holdens,

Hell I am still wearing Holden thongs today, that my in-laws bought me at Xmas because they thought I was a Holden guy.

But just like I moved from Nokia to IPhones when I realised they were better, I have dumped Holden for Tesla, no way would I consider a petrol car.

——————
try and forget about all your pre existing bias, and try and look at Tesla cars with fresh eyes, you will see they are very good cars. (And that’s coming from a consumer, not some one that has Tesla stock they are ramping)

 

[Muckman]

I just don’t see telsa cars an engineering achievement

The fact that they have to compromise the design around the battery of the car ses it all.
Your not buying a car it’s that simple. Your buying a battery with wheels. It’s that simple.
It’s nothing more then an over priced appliance. Anyone who is convinced they are buying one as an enthusiast is brainwashed. Honestly you have no idear what cars are all about if you think a telsa is a car.

Ok when you design a car first thing is weight. Everything you do you must keep your weight down. Putting a battery pack in the floor pan is not a option for a designer. It’s too heavy, and it’s not where all your structural integrity is so you try and save as much weight in the floor as much as possible. All the strength in a car is in the pillars and roof. What they call a space frame. It’s very strong and it’s light weight. Or you make your whole frame from carbon fibre which is very expensive.

To sit down and knowing your car is already going to weigh 500kg without even design the car is just ridiculous. It’s not efficient. So all up with all the equipment your always got about 600KG of dead weight on your car at all times not including your engine and drivetrain. It’s just not logical. And it’s why it’s never going to happen. Again, I’m all for the electric engine but battery cars is not the answer. Get rid of the 500kg batter then we can talk.

To be driving a Tesla with a half of a tank and knowing your carrying an excess of 300kg of dead weight is like being in a traitor pull

 

[Lucky777]

You can watch this video from Sandy Munro (ex ford and gm engineer), current fiat-Chrysler contractor talk about Tesla. He has broken down and stripped a Tesla completely and shares his views on it. Maybe it might change your mind.

 

[Lucky777]

What you said is true, but this is the current technology that we have (battery powered EV’s). This is a push towards for cars to be improved and more sustainable with the resources that we have. Sure, maybe in the future with new emerging technologies that battery powered will be not suitable but that has not come to fruition at the moment. Probably in the next 5-20 years, who knows.

 

[Muckman]

You can watch this video from Sandy Munro (ex ford and gm engineer), current fiat-Chrysler contractor talk about Tesla. He has broken down and stripped a Tesla completely and shares his views on it. Maybe it might change your mind.

You said it there EX Engineers lol