Trump 2.0

basilio · Monday at 11:33 AM

mullokintyre said:
Whatever we might think of Trump the person, you have to give him credit for his marketing skills.
After becoming the first president to attend a superbowl last weekend, his latest publicity stunt was hot a lap in the presidential limo, aka 'the Beast", at the Daytona 500.
Its probably no great surprise that in both of these sporting venues, the majority of attendees would be his supporters.
And its no great surprise that Indy Car no 47, which happens to coincide with Trump as president no 47, is the fan favourite to win.
He markets himself even better than Clinton.
Mick

Totally correct Mick. Couldn't agree you more. Trump is a master propagandist.
When you look at previous and current "Great World leaders" the comparisons still stand.

Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, Chairman Mao, The Dear Leader of North Korea. Idi Amin

Every one created the Cult of the Personality. They alone could make Italy/Germany/Soviet Russia/China/Korea great again.

They were the symbol of all that was Good and Great and Fatherly and Strong .

This is the way of the Authoritarian playbook. Get used to it.

mullokintyre · Monday at 11:40 AM

basilio said:
Totally correct Mick. Couldn't agree you more. Trump is a master propagandist.
When you look at previous and current "Great World leaders" the comparisons still stand.

Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, Chairman Mao, The Dear Leader of North Korea. Idi Amin

Every one created the Cult of the Personality. They alone could make Italy/Germany/Soviet Russia/China/Korea great again.

They were the symbol of all that was Good and Great and Fatherly and Strong .

This is the way of the Authoritarian playbook. Get used to it.

The big difference is Trump will be gone in 4 years.
Mick

basilio · Monday at 12:31 PM

mullokintyre said:
The big difference is Trump will be gone in 4 years.
Mick

And you believe that ? Or that there will be functional democratic political system left in the US in 4 years ?
Wake up and smell the roses. Everything that is happening in the Trump administration is directed to destroying political opposition to Donald Trump in particular.

basilio · Monday at 12:48 PM

Mick in relation to your observation that Trump will be gone 4 years and ? whatever... Consider the following thought

Jason M
Jason M
3d

Long-time Bulwark listener/reader here; and I'm not a nut.

So, I'm an Occam's razor kind of dude. I have not - and will not - dabble in baseless conspiracy theories. BUT... what about when there's a theory about a conspiracy that's not baseless? What then?

I fear that we (the non-MAGA / non-anti-antis who are sentient and use their critical thinking skills) have been so dispirited by the perpetual geyser of conspiratorial nonsense on the "right" that we've been primed to automatically reject any conspiracy theory based on the fact that purveyors of such theories are bat-guano-crazy 99% of the time. But try this on for size:

1. Peter Thiel has expressed clearly and openly, ad nauseum, that the American Republic has outlasted its usefulness and will - nay, MUST - fall to bring about a new alternative governing arrangement. He has said this for years.

2. This sentiment (neo-reactionary, Curtis Yarvin-inspired drivel) has been echoed by Musk, Andreessen, Ball-Sacks, et al.

3. Said sentiment has also been echoed on multiple occasions (and in the past few years) by the current Vice President of the United States (who was mentored by Thiel after college, and had his Senate campaign bankrolled by Thiel).

4. As Wired has reported, Palantir (Thiel) was responsible for the recruitment of the DOGE team.

5. The crux of your piece is that Musk has an ulterior motive for DOGE. What would a reasonable, fact-based alternative explanation be for Musk's interest in hollowing out our institutions so they are weak and pliant?

Could it be that Musk would like to hasten that fall of the republic? And if so, is that even a conspiracy? After all, a conspiracy is a secret plan, and nothing about this is all that secret.

I would like to see just one credible journalist ask Musk, "sir, are you not intentionally attempting to hasten the fall of the republic through your actions?" I actually think we might be surprised by how he answers. But then again, who would ask this question. None of the real journalists want to be seen as "conspiracy theorists."

JohnDe · Monday at 1:43 PM

basilio said:
And you believe that ? Or that there will be functional democratic political system left in the US in 4 years ?
Wake up and smell the roses. Everything that is happening in the Trump administration is directed to destroying political opposition to Donald Trump in particular.

You're watching too much internet.

JohnDe · Monday at 1:45 PM

basilio said:
Mick in relation to your observation that Trump will be gone 4 years and ? whatever... Consider the following thought

Jason M
Jason M
3d

Long-time Bulwark listener/reader here; and I'm not a nut.

So, I'm an Occam's razor kind of dude. I have not - and will not - dabble in baseless conspiracy theories. BUT... what about when there's a theory about a conspiracy that's not baseless? What then?

I fear that we (the non-MAGA / non-anti-antis who are sentient and use their critical thinking skills) have been so dispirited by the perpetual geyser of conspiratorial nonsense on the "right" that we've been primed to automatically reject any conspiracy theory based on the fact that purveyors of such theories are bat-guano-crazy 99% of the time. But try this on for size:

1. Peter Thiel has expressed clearly and openly, ad nauseum, that the American Republic has outlasted its usefulness and will - nay, MUST - fall to bring about a new alternative governing arrangement. He has said this for years.

2. This sentiment (neo-reactionary, Curtis Yarvin-inspired drivel) has been echoed by Musk, Andreessen, Ball-Sacks, et al.

3. Said sentiment has also been echoed on multiple occasions (and in the past few years) by the current Vice President of the United States (who was mentored by Thiel after college, and had his Senate campaign bankrolled by Thiel).

4. As Wired has reported, Palantir (Thiel) was responsible for the recruitment of the DOGE team.

5. The crux of your piece is that Musk has an ulterior motive for DOGE. What would a reasonable, fact-based alternative explanation be for Musk's interest in hollowing out our institutions so they are weak and pliant?

Could it be that Musk would like to hasten that fall of the republic? And if so, is that even a conspiracy? After all, a conspiracy is a secret plan, and nothing about this is all that secret.

I would like to see just one credible journalist ask Musk, "sir, are you not intentionally attempting to hasten the fall of the republic through your actions?" I actually think we might be surprised by how he answers. But then again, who would ask this question. None of the real journalists want to be seen as "conspiracy theorists."

mullokintyre · Monday at 1:46 PM

basilio said:
Mick in relation to your observation that Trump will be gone 4 years and ? whatever... Consider the following thought

Jason M
Jason M
3d

Long-time Bulwark listener/reader here; and I'm not a nut.

So, I'm an Occam's razor kind of dude. I have not - and will not - dabble in baseless conspiracy theories. BUT... what about when there's a theory about a conspiracy that's not baseless? What then?

I fear that we (the non-MAGA / non-anti-antis who are sentient and use their critical thinking skills) have been so dispirited by the perpetual geyser of conspiratorial nonsense on the "right" that we've been primed to automatically reject any conspiracy theory based on the fact that purveyors of such theories are bat-guano-crazy 99% of the time. But try this on for size:

1. Peter Thiel has expressed clearly and openly, ad nauseum, that the American Republic has outlasted its usefulness and will - nay, MUST - fall to bring about a new alternative governing arrangement. He has said this for years.

2. This sentiment (neo-reactionary, Curtis Yarvin-inspired drivel) has been echoed by Musk, Andreessen, Ball-Sacks, et al.

3. Said sentiment has also been echoed on multiple occasions (and in the past few years) by the current Vice President of the United States (who was mentored by Thiel after college, and had his Senate campaign bankrolled by Thiel).

4. As Wired has reported, Palantir (Thiel) was responsible for the recruitment of the DOGE team.

5. The crux of your piece is that Musk has an ulterior motive for DOGE. What would a reasonable, fact-based alternative explanation be for Musk's interest in hollowing out our institutions so they are weak and pliant?

Could it be that Musk would like to hasten that fall of the republic? And if so, is that even a conspiracy? After all, a conspiracy is a secret plan, and nothing about this is all that secret.

I would like to see just one credible journalist ask Musk, "sir, are you not intentionally attempting to hasten the fall of the republic through your actions?" I actually think we might be surprised by how he answers. But then again, who would ask this question. None of the real journalists want to be seen as "conspiracy theorists."

Take it to the conspiracy theory thread.
Mick

basilio · Monday at 2:49 PM

JohnDe said:
You're watching too much internet.

Your not taking notice of what is happening.

Did you know that the role of Independent Inspector Generals was "finding waste , fraud and abuse" ?
So Trump gives them all the chop so he can get away with the waste, fraud and abuse he wants to see happen.

In particular of course ensuring that any investigations of his mates , the Musk Rat in particular, are quickly killed.

Trump uses mass firing to remove independent inspectors general at a series of agencies

By ZEKE MILLER, ERIC TUCKER and WILL WEISSERT

Updated 2:33 PM GMT+11, January 26, 2025

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Trump administration has fired about 17 independent inspectors general at government agencies, a sweeping action to remove oversight of his new administration that some members of Congress are suggesting violated federal oversight laws.

The dismissals began Friday night and were effective immediately, according to two people familiar with the actions. They spoke on condition of anonymity to provide details that have not been made public. Neither confirmed the exact number of firings, but an email sent by one of the fired inspectors general said “roughly 17” inspectors general had been removed.

Trump uses mass firing to remove independent inspectors general at a series of agencies

The sweeping action removes oversight of his new administration. Some members of Congress are suggesting it violated federal oversight laws.

apnews.com

basilio · Monday at 2:50 PM

mullokintyre said:
Take it to the conspiracy theory thread.
Mick

It's not a conspiracy Mick. It's all out in the open.

basilio · Monday at 3:03 PM

But lets go back to the analysis of why Elon Musks wholesale destruction of the US Civil Service and Trumps determination to put Yes men in charge is such a bad idea.

What is the history of this in the US ?

"The destruction of the modern civil-service ethos will take time. It dates from the late 19th century, when Theodore Roosevelt and other civil-service reformers launched a crusade to eliminate the spoils system that dominated government service. At that time, whoever won the presidency always got to fire everyone and appoint his own people, even for menial jobs.

Much of the world still relies on such patronage systems, and they are both corrupt and corrupting. Politicians hand out job appointments in exchange for bribes. They appoint unqualified people—somebody’s cousin, somebody’s neighbor, or just a party hack—to jobs that require knowledge and experience. Patronage creates bad government and bad services, because it means government employees serve a patron, not a country or its constitution. When that patron demands, say, a tax break for a businessman favored by the leader or the party, they naturally comply."

<snip>

"The new system, whatever its ideology, will in practice represent a return to patronage, about which more in a minute. But before it can be imposed, the administration will first have to break the morale of the people who believed in the old civil-service ethos."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/02/doge-civil-servant-purge/681671/

sptrawler · Monday at 4:03 PM

Wow, it's hard to believe that only two months ago the U.S politics was corruption free, who would have guessed that. Lol

basilio · Monday at 4:42 PM

sptrawler said:
Wow, it's hard to believe that only two months ago the U.S politics was corruption free, who would have guessed that. Lol

Corruption free ? Hardly. But mate you ain't seen nothing yet.

Lets try another analogy. We have bushfires in Australia. Bad yeah.

But then some bright spark decides to slash the fire fighters, put a couple of mates in charge and then allows a group of arsonists free rein to see what they can do over summer.

What is so difficult about acknowledging that destroying an entire Federal US administration so you can put in a bunch of loyalists is not inherently dangerous ?

sptrawler · Monday at 4:57 PM

basilio said:
Corruption free ? Hardly. But mate you ain't seen nothing yet.

Lets try another analogy. We have bushfires in Australia. Bad yeah.

But then some bright spark decides to slash the fire fighters, put a couple of mates in charge and then allows a group of arsonists free rein to see what they can do over summer.

Didn't that recently happen in LA, pre Trump?

Let's put it another way, the U.S and most Western countries are financial basket cases, the last lot did nothing to address the slide, so the voters did.

It's a shame the loonie media can't just respect that, as they did when the last lot were in and wars broke out everywhere, yet the media didn't campaign every day to force the Dems to encourage ceasefires.

basilio · Monday at 5:13 PM

sptrawler said:
Didn't that recently happen in LA, pre Trump?

Let's put it another way, the U.S and most Western countries are financial basket cases, the last lot did nothing to address the slide, so the voters did.

It's a shame the loonie media can't just respect that, as they did when the last lot were in and wars broke out everywhere, yet the media didn't campaign every day to force the Dems to encourage ceasefires.

What are you talking about SP ? Apples ? Oranges ? Fruitcakes ? Fruitloops ?

Destroying the capacity of the US Federal Administration to operate fairly and effectively is rubbish and destructive in the extreme.

Dealing with a huge US deficit is a big deal. These actions will not make this situation go away. I'm bewildered that you attempt to make that connection. We are at post truth and post reality.

But perhaps you have decided that Trump is here to stay. Nothing we can do will make any difference. He can't be all that bad.
And really.... who cares ?

sptrawler · Monday at 5:34 PM

basilio said:
Dealing with a huge US deficit is a big deal.

But perhaps you have decided that Trump is here to stay. Nothing we can do will make any difference. He can't be all that bad.
And really.... who cares ?

Exactly, nothing has really been done about the slide of the Western World, since it started in the early 1980's with globalisation, so why not let someone have a go.
The multinationals, which are U.S founded companies don't want to relocate manufacturing back to the U.S and Trump is the only one who has suggested they do so, that's why he got the popular vote.

You don't like him, well that's your perogative, but the U.S voters didn't agree with you.

People are getting fed up with more of the same, you will just have to suck it up, that's life.

Let's see what 4 years does, but a running comentary every day from DB008 and yourself, doesn't make it go any quicker.

Smurf1976 · Monday at 7:10 PM

basilio said:
Every one created the Cult of the Personality. They alone could make Italy/Germany/Soviet Russia/China/Korea great again.

A problem for the US, and the West in general, is we're basically at the point of do or die.

We're at the point where continuing to use the drug actually will kill us, the body's tolerance is fully used up at this point and the consequences are increasingly apparent for all to see.

The slide is undeniable and that's ultimately what's behind the population's desire for an alternative. That they'll vote for anyone who seems like they've got a plan that might work and which isn't more of the same. Hence Trump being elected for a second term despite his well known characteristics - the people just don't want more of the same that the other side was offering.

If someone living anywhere in the West had been in a coma since 1980 and woke up today, at first they'd be truly impressed with technology. Once they looked past that however they'd muster up the courage to ask about the war, thinking it might be a taboo subject that nobody wanted to talk about. Because they'd be thinking surely there must've been a major war or some other catastrophe to end up with de-industrialisation, a housing crisis and even a decline in the concept of raising a family. They'd never believe that our own governments did it intentionally.

JohnDe · Monday at 9:58 PM

JohnDe · Tuesday at 12:28 PM

basilio · Tuesday at 1:47 PM

The new world order is exactly what it looks like. Are we too frozen with fear to name it?

Zoe Williams

The truth is paralysing. But after JD Vance met the far-right leader Alice Weidel in Germany, it is time to be clear about what we are seeing

.... I’m not talking about other world leaders, and the sufficiency or otherwise of their response. I’m honestly just talking about the guy in the street, the spectator, myself. You’re dumbstruck for ages, not wanting to call the thing what it is. It starts off feeling like embarrassment or coyness – what kind of hysteric runs around shouting “fascist”? A very silly one, surely? They might be the ones who have put their patent jackboots on, but fancy dress only exists with an audience.

Then it morphs into something more superstitious – don’t call the thing what it is because that will only embolden the thing. You can keep telling yourself that the thing is already bold enough and doesn’t need your energy. Yet the feeling persists: if I decline to freak out, then the next phase cannot commence.

Between 1933 and 1939, the journalist Charlotte Beradt compiled The Third Reich of Dreams, in which she transcribed the nightmares of citizens from housemaids to small-business owners, then grouped them thematically, analysed them, and smuggled them to the US. They were published in 1968. A surprising, poignant number of them were about people dreaming that it was forbidden to dream, then freaking out in the dream because they knew they were illegitimately dreaming. There were amazingly prescient themes, of hyper-surveillance by the state before it had even begun, of barbarous violence, again, before it had started. But the paralysis theme was possibly the most recurrent and striking – people’s limbs frozen in Sieg Heils, voices frozen into silence, motifs of inaction from the most trivial to the most all-encompassing.

That’s the problem with paralysis – it gets into everything. If you can’t respond to the news, you can’t look at the news, but you know it’s still there. When you’re averting your eyes, you can’t even think your way into next month. Casting yourself any further ahead than that feels like asking for trouble. Frozen feels preferable to adapting to a new reality. Sometimes you don’t have to look for it – trouble will find you anyway.

The new world order is exactly what it looks like. Are we too frozen with fear to name it? | Zoe Williams

The truth is paralysing. But after JD Vance met the far-right leader Alice Weidel in Germany, it is time to be clear about what we are seeing, writes Zoe Williams

www.theguardian.com

JohnDe · Tuesday at 2:37 PM

basilio said:
The new world order is exactly what it looks like. Are we too frozen with fear to name it?
Zoe Williams

The truth is paralysing. But after JD Vance met the far-right leader Alice Weidel in Germany, it is time to be clear about what we are seeing

.... I’m not talking about other world leaders, and the sufficiency or otherwise of their response. I’m honestly just talking about the guy in the street, the spectator, myself. You’re dumbstruck for ages, not wanting to call the thing what it is. It starts off feeling like embarrassment or coyness – what kind of hysteric runs around shouting “fascist”? A very silly one, surely? They might be the ones who have put their patent jackboots on, but fancy dress only exists with an audience.

Then it morphs into something more superstitious – don’t call the thing what it is because that will only embolden the thing. You can keep telling yourself that the thing is already bold enough and doesn’t need your energy. Yet the feeling persists: if I decline to freak out, then the next phase cannot commence.

Between 1933 and 1939, the journalist Charlotte Beradt compiled The Third Reich of Dreams, in which she transcribed the nightmares of citizens from housemaids to small-business owners, then grouped them thematically, analysed them, and smuggled them to the US. They were published in 1968. A surprising, poignant number of them were about people dreaming that it was forbidden to dream, then freaking out in the dream because they knew they were illegitimately dreaming. There were amazingly prescient themes, of hyper-surveillance by the state before it had even begun, of barbarous violence, again, before it had started. But the paralysis theme was possibly the most recurrent and striking – people’s limbs frozen in Sieg Heils, voices frozen into silence, motifs of inaction from the most trivial to the most all-encompassing.

That’s the problem with paralysis – it gets into everything. If you can’t respond to the news, you can’t look at the news, but you know it’s still there. When you’re averting your eyes, you can’t even think your way into next month. Casting yourself any further ahead than that feels like asking for trouble. Frozen feels preferable to adapting to a new reality. Sometimes you don’t have to look for it – trouble will find you anyway.

The new world order is exactly what it looks like. Are we too frozen with fear to name it? | Zoe Williams

The truth is paralysing. But after JD Vance met the far-right leader Alice Weidel in Germany, it is time to be clear about what we are seeing, writes Zoe Williams

www.theguardian.com

The New World Order (NWO) is a term used in several conspiracy theories which hypothesize a secretly emerging totalitarian world government. The common theme in conspiracy theories about a New World Order is that a secretive power elite with a globalist agenda is conspiring to eventually rule the world through an authoritarian one-world government

Since the 19th century, many apocalyptic millennial Christian eschatologists, starting with John Nelson Darby, have predicted a globalist conspiracy to impose a tyrannical New World Order governing structure as the fulfillment of prophecies about the "end time" in the Bible, specifically in the Book of Ezekiel, the Book of Daniel, the Olivet Discourse found in the Synoptic Gospels, 2 Esdras 11:32 and Revelation 13:7.

New World Order conspiracy theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Trump 2.0

basilio

mullokintyre

basilio

basilio

JohnDe

La dolce vita

JohnDe

La dolce vita

mullokintyre

basilio

Trump uses mass firing to remove independent inspectors general at a series of agencies

Trump uses mass firing to remove independent inspectors general at a series of agencies

basilio

basilio

sptrawler

basilio

sptrawler

basilio

sptrawler

Smurf1976

JohnDe

La dolce vita

JohnDe

La dolce vita

basilio

The new world order is exactly what it looks like. Are we too frozen with fear to name it?

The new world order is exactly what it looks like. Are we too frozen with fear to name it? | Zoe Williams

JohnDe

La dolce vita

The new world order is exactly what it looks like. Are we too frozen with fear to name it?

The new world order is exactly what it looks like. Are we too frozen with fear to name it? | Zoe Williams

New World Order conspiracy theory - Wikipedia

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