over9k
So I didn't tell my wife, but I...
- Joined
- 12 June 2020
- Posts
- 5,309
- Reactions
- 7,563
Why are you arguing a medical perspective then?
jog on
duc
And what if there are? What will happen re. the market?
jog on
duc
1. You think case numbers aren't a macro metric to consider. I'd agree with you over the past couple of months (though not before them) but not now, now things are different. There's a massively higher probability of infection personally, there WILL be a massive spread of infection, and we know how deadly the virus actually is/that it isn't just a headcold.
2. What I'm saying is that we're going to see both the reintroduction of restrictions (or refusal to lift them at all) as well as voluntary isolation etc that we didn't see previously. America is NOT going to return to what will be the new normal that the rest of the first world has as america did NOT contain the virus like, say, AU/NZ have.
3. Well it won't go to the point otherwise expected, will it?
4. I'm not talking a time horizon of a couple of days here though, which you appear to be. I don't doubt we'll see a bump on monday, but I've never been talking about monday. As I said, iirc it takes about three weeks for data to reflect infection spread, so three weeks after the riots, the data is armageddon and thus so is the market.
5. Again, it'd be worth clarifying what time(s) you're talking whenever you post something.
1. Why are things 'different'? To answer you question: no the virus numbers are not a macro-metric that I would consider. Why? You demonstrate to me an objective measure that tells me when the numbers are important and (potentially) market moving and when they are not. Until that point it is all subjective hyperbole and markets do not discount hyperbole.
2. You know that for a fact? Of course not that is just your view. But let's say you are correct: what happens in the market?
Sure it does - it means you won't see the bump as high as you were anticipating. If enough don't reopen or some more bad virus data is released, you mightn't see a bump at all. Either way, the outcome (in the short term) is not as positive as it would have been.3. That tells me nothing.
4. My holding time will be measured in years. However, rebalancing will happen when it happens. That might be tomorrow or next year. Generally I try and give a couple days notice of when I think something relevant is going to happen (as in previous post). Sometimes, it is so clear, it could be a couple of weeks.
jog on
duc
What about we settle that in 2 months even go wide end august?So the answer is twofold. First the cost of cases themselves and then how people react to them. But you're looking for an objective metric when there isn't one.
Here's a simple example: How are you going to go out for a meal at a pub when you need to wear a mask the whole time? That's not an objective metric, but people are not going to head out to bars etc when every 2nd person is likely to kill them with an infection unless they have a mask on.
I can't be objective about the cost to business of every infection - an employee being off work for a month, a director being off work for a month, an employee dying, a director dying, so on and so forth, and yet I guarantee you these things will happen and will cost everyone a boatload. Same as with zoom meetings etc being such an effective alternative, people simply aren't going to travel for business or really do much at all (even go to the hospital) unless they ABSOLUTELY have to. This isn't modelling, this is behavioural economics - not objective by its very nature.
Sure things will pick up for the next couple of weeks, but the moment serious infection numbers hit the news (which they are going to) is the moment EVERYTHING changes. We know this because they already did the second the last ones did. You're essentially claiming this pattern of response to the virus data is not going to be repeated.
I also can't give you an objective metric of X number of cases where states and municipal areas reclose or just flatly never reopen particular areas, but I bet you it still happens, same as I bet you people aren't going to go elbow to elbow in bars when the infection rate is 500x what it was in feb. People weren't taking the virus seriously before not least of all because of the low statistical probability of actually getting it. That's going to change, and change dramatically.
People are now very wisely avoiding (only) the hospitals because they're infection hotspots. What happens when the whole country becomes a hotspot, which it will?
Again, this is what numbers *can't* show, but it doesn't mean they aren't true and/or won't happen.
We see a drop in whatever economic activity has just been restricted and a commensurate drop in the market in response. Exactly like what has already happened?
Seems like a bit of a silly question to ask what'll happen to the market if economic activity is re-restricted?
Sure it does - it means you won't see the bump as high as you were anticipating. If enough don't reopen or some more bad virus data is released, you mightn't see a bump at all. Either way, the outcome (in the short term) is not as positive as it would have been.
Sure, and I'm doing the same thing - you're just trying to use modelling to do it whereas I'm doing the complete opposite. You seem to think there's nothing that your models can't tell you though?
1. So the answer is twofold. First the cost of cases themselves and then how people react to them. But you're looking for an objective metric when there isn't one.
2. Sure, and I'm doing the same thing - you're just trying to use modelling to do it whereas I'm doing the complete opposite. You seem to think there's nothing that your models can't tell you though?
What about we settle that in 2 months even go wide end august?
So you genuinely believe that in end 08 2020, the disease in itself will paralyse our day to day life?
not talking market which can go High Low irrespective of virus...
What may happen is in august qantas shareholders might discover they own a company with 3 months of no income..surprised???
Well i do not look at media news just facts
France was my birth country, has massive number of underclass and poverty and a strained hospital system as a standard.
It got seriously hit with the first wave, around 30k deaths or so..you know vs our 110 ?.
There are still daily infections etc but lockdown is now eased and economy restarted.basic masks and preventions are taken i do not forecast disaster ahead .10pc of population infected in Paris
As elsewhere not something to brush aside but weather factor and age were defining the deaths areas
Economically the virus is out of the equation, but not the measures taken under its name.the world is ok now.
Will we have to live with the virus and improve treatments i think so
I am a pessimistic person...but you have way too dark a view..can we still say that?
And next:
View attachment 104741
View attachment 104742
Which is exactly the opposite of what happened. The markets tanked between Feb. 20/22 and bottomed March 23. From March 23 through today, markets have gone (pretty much) in one direction. Was the news from 23 March all good news? No, far from it. It was bad. The markets rose.
Your thesis (to date) is simply incorrect.
Far from being a silly question, on a forum that is dedicated to trading the financial markets: it is the only question. Do we position long or short. When do we need to do that.
jog on
duc
I highly recommend following peter zeihan - his macro intel is second to none IMO.
I don't trade oil so you'll have to fill in some blanks for me here.
People love a narrative. They want to know causation, even if causation is impossible to discern. The media provide that narrative. It has little if anything to do with what moves markets.
That is so true, they don't sell good news, they like chaos IMO.The thing about news is not to take it literally but it can still be of some use, usually by inverting it.
When the media tells you there's about to be a crash, it's quite likely a buying opportunity.
When the media tells you there's nothing to worry about, that's the time to be worried.
The thing about news is not to take it literally but it can still be of some use, usually by inverting it.
When the media tells you there's about to be a crash, it's quite likely a buying opportunity.
When the media tells you there's nothing to worry about, that's the time to be worried.
1. That's the media reporting on what's already happened in the market though - you know, the past.
2. This is quite a different thing to media reporting on something that's going to/will effect the markets. A massive spike in coronavirus cases over the weekend = armageddon on monday for example. Same with employment data or anything else that markets respond to.
3. There's big talk of a second wave in china over the weekend. Lots of ASX red as a result. Will be interesting to see how U.S is effected now as everyone were expecting a massive bounce tonight and that's now looking uncertain.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?