Trading The SPI - NON-Gann Techniques
- Thread starter wayneL
- Start date
A discussion on people's intraday trading styles would be really good. Hopefully we can help each other a bit.
I was wondering how you made 60 round trips on the HSI the other day TH, and finally I realised you were probably range trading. So does that mean you enter every time it pauses at the edge of it's range channel? The problem I get when I try this style is knowing where the range boundaries are, especially on the early moves just after open or after a strong move. I guess people might say you are picking small tops and bottoms, which goes against typical advice. But I guess after a while you can get it just right. Do you enter before the pause at S/R, or at the pause or just as it shows evidence is has turned and formed it's high or low?
Currently I'm just trading breakouts from consolidation patterns, such as pennants and flags, but you can get false signals. The other problem is waiting for the retracement to make your entry, this way often means you miss half the move. At least it's moving in the right direction.
Trading the moves between pivot lines seems reasonable, although slow at times. Sometimes it depends if the index likes the pivot lines or not, like the Z (ftse 100) bounces off them all the time.
Waiting for trends requires patience. If the average index only trends 10-15% of the time, it can be a real waiting game. Plus the questions arise, such as what defines a trend start? Or a trend finish? And how do you stay on a trend for the maximum move (which is the same question as defining it's end).
So what defines a trend start? Is it as simple as a moving average crossover with volume? Or do people have more complex indicators to decide (CCI, RSI etc). And how do people get off them? Do you use momentum loss? Or wait for a double top or bottom? Or volume based, let the smart people with money tell you when to exit?
And trading a trend can just be considered as trading a range that is progressing slightly uphill or downhill. Instead of taking a long, then short, then long, you switch to taking only longs, for example, if the trend is up.
There must be alot of people scalping the big indices such as the HSI, DAX, Z and the USA indices. The volume and number of trades each minute indicates there are. And some of them must be winning long term.
But I guess trading methods (including details of entries and exits) are personal and intellectual property, which may risk failure if revealed to too many.
I wonder if anyone has come across some good books about intraday minute by minute scalping of indexes?
- Joined
- 4 January 2005
- Posts
- 1,231
- Reactions
- 0
Evening,
for scalping you need smaller time frames, each fut/index seem to have there own time frame which suits,,
eg: spi works well with a 50 volume chart, a 10 tick chart..and a 1 range chart..if you want to swing,you can take entry of the smaller time frame then you would look at the bigger time frames,to manage trade, depends on what sort of trader you wish to become.if you can get the smaller time frame in sync with the bigger one you would find that it would be a pretty good move..
scalping for the euro works well on a 50 vol chart, then later when usa comes in, you would move it to a bigger time frame..say 250 volume..this is for scalping the euro..but a lot is trial and error to find the time frame that you and the fut, suit....
nothing is meant to be easy, but i hope this is of some help to some of you..
have a great evening
ac
for scalping you need smaller time frames, each fut/index seem to have there own time frame which suits,,
eg: spi works well with a 50 volume chart, a 10 tick chart..and a 1 range chart..if you want to swing,you can take entry of the smaller time frame then you would look at the bigger time frames,to manage trade, depends on what sort of trader you wish to become.if you can get the smaller time frame in sync with the bigger one you would find that it would be a pretty good move..
scalping for the euro works well on a 50 vol chart, then later when usa comes in, you would move it to a bigger time frame..say 250 volume..this is for scalping the euro..but a lot is trial and error to find the time frame that you and the fut, suit....
nothing is meant to be easy, but i hope this is of some help to some of you..
have a great evening
ac
- Joined
- 4 January 2005
- Posts
- 1,231
- Reactions
- 0
example of the two time frame's
it is a little hard with the range charts to show the time correctly, but on the 1 range chart entry was before the 10 range chart for a scalp ,but once you entered, and you moved on to the 10 range chart, then you could have held for the bigger move,it took all the noise out of the trade..
ac
it is a little hard with the range charts to show the time correctly, but on the 1 range chart entry was before the 10 range chart for a scalp ,but once you entered, and you moved on to the 10 range chart, then you could have held for the bigger move,it took all the noise out of the trade..
ac
Attachments
- Joined
- 4 January 2005
- Posts
- 1,231
- Reactions
- 0
oops didn't do the snap very well will try and remove it, and re do ..sorry about that..
ac
ac
- Joined
- 4 January 2005
- Posts
- 1,231
- Reactions
- 0
- Joined
- 4 January 2005
- Posts
- 1,231
- Reactions
- 0
>Apocalypto<
20.03.2012
- Joined
- 2 February 2007
- Posts
- 2,233
- Reactions
- 2
acouch,
Great charts and great posts.
you have a very unquie style that really adds to this thread.
Well done and keep it up!
Great charts and great posts.
you have a very unquie style that really adds to this thread.
Well done and keep it up!
Trembling Hand
Can be found on the bid
- Joined
- 10 June 2007
- Posts
- 8,852
- Reactions
- 204
Broadway, I had a long explanation of how I trade ready to post and than my computer crashed. So now the quick one. Basically I do what you are told not to do. I try and catch falling knifes and stand in front of freight trains all day long. I use the DOM and 1 & 5 Minute candle charts. I'm basically looking for climatic volume. When the big money is giving the desperate all they want. Pretty much revision to mean stuff. I do trade breakouts but funnily I'm never that comfortable doing it. Happier picking tops and bottoms. Some times I get smashed but I always have very tight stops and many times will re-enter the same trade after being stopped out. With breakouts I'm never that comfortable with the stops, many times it rolls back into the range then takes off again. For me it makes it hard to have a tight stop.
I'm off on a month long holiday on Friday but when I come back I will post some videos using Ninja traders replay function to show my trading style.
As for the question about books on scalping. I have not seen anything that is worth reading about scalping. In fact I'm pretty sure what I do you read that its shouldn't be done this way.
Thanks TH and ac. Alot of great stuff to think about and try.
TH, you hit the nail on the head with picking tops and bottoms. Textbooks etc say not to do it, but it seems to me that is what the deep pockets are doing quite often. Large volume spikes seem to be a self-fulfilling prophecy as well i.e. as soon as people see a spike or two, they think this may be a good spot for a reversal and so it reverses, not because of an S/R level, but because someone with money thought it was a good spot to reverse. Those videos will be great to see when you get back.
Nice charts ac. I think I read on another thread in ASF about someone else who used CCI quite a bit. They explained how you could trade from +-100 to -+100, or from 0 to +-100. But how does the stochastic help you? Also good advice about going to longer time/tick/range/vol frames to stay in a trend.
Trembling Hand
Can be found on the bid
- Joined
- 10 June 2007
- Posts
- 8,852
- Reactions
- 204
I haven't done much today but the SPI has had a couple of the set ups that I trade. Have a look at the Volume spikes at the edge of the Bol Bands. This is the kind of think I fade. If its with an extreme on the RSI or some divergence I will get more aggressive. Its pretty simple setups really. Could probably put it all of my trading "plan" on the back of an envelope.
Attachments
- Joined
- 4 January 2005
- Posts
- 1,231
- Reactions
- 0
- Joined
- 4 January 2005
- Posts
- 1,231
- Reactions
- 0
morning cheers for the charts TH & acouch, good stuff. this is what I have been doing lately on a 1 min chart, concentrating on spotting lower highs & higher lows for turns and looking for confirmation with MACD and RSI but not using MACD as they are in the link. Also using 5min and 1hr charts for longer term trend - as well as looking at daily just to get a longer term view.
I like your Renko chart acouch, looks a lot cleaner than my candles
http://forexta.blogspot.com/2006/12/forex-1-2-3-method.html
I like your Renko chart acouch, looks a lot cleaner than my candles
http://forexta.blogspot.com/2006/12/forex-1-2-3-method.html
- Joined
- 4 January 2005
- Posts
- 1,231
- Reactions
- 0
morning onemore,
for scalping i like to use a two min and one range chart, with renko,heikin-ashi candle combo
the two min is very similar to the 50 volume chart..
if you look at those renko charts..the heikin-ashi is super imposed over the renko box, to give it a very smooth look..
i assume it can be done with most software, i use sierra charts for those posted here, i also have the fibtrader software as well, but it cant be done with that..
hope this is of some help
ac
gap at 62 was filled this morning..we now have a gap above at 96..
for scalping i like to use a two min and one range chart, with renko,heikin-ashi candle combo
the two min is very similar to the 50 volume chart..
if you look at those renko charts..the heikin-ashi is super imposed over the renko box, to give it a very smooth look..
i assume it can be done with most software, i use sierra charts for those posted here, i also have the fibtrader software as well, but it cant be done with that..
hope this is of some help
ac
gap at 62 was filled this morning..we now have a gap above at 96..
- Joined
- 4 January 2005
- Posts
- 1,231
- Reactions
- 0
What Renko charts?
Thanks Edwood, thought it would have to be something obvious! Don't think I've seen them look that way before. I like to use Renko as it takes all the noise out of the chart, tricky bit is you can get stopped out by the noise.
