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soultrader
Would you say that market profile gives a more complete picture of price?
stevo
Would you say that market profile gives a more complete picture of price?
stevo
Trading Indicators Are Useless
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tech/a
No Ordinary Duck
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Steve.
Have you ever looked into M/P? (Steidlmayer).
If your trading Futures I feel its second to none.
There is an E book from CBOT Chicago Board of Trade floating around out there I think I have it on PDF at home.
Daltons works are great but the CBOT publication is by far the most concise I have seen.
Private mail me if you want some info.Knowing your enquiring mind this would be right down your alley.
Have you ever looked into M/P? (Steidlmayer).
If your trading Futures I feel its second to none.
There is an E book from CBOT Chicago Board of Trade floating around out there I think I have it on PDF at home.
Daltons works are great but the CBOT publication is by far the most concise I have seen.
Private mail me if you want some info.Knowing your enquiring mind this would be right down your alley.
tech/a,
what do u think is a good source to get EOD data?
(compatible with amibroker)
James - Iv looked at e-signal as well, but i dont really need intraday.
Once Im a pro (like YOU), then ill consider 4 screens and the latest and greatest. For now i just need to get myself into the game, slowly. Im pretty much just starting out.
Michael D - Can u offer any suggestions as to *good* and *expensive* EOD data?
what do u think is a good source to get EOD data?
(compatible with amibroker)
James - Iv looked at e-signal as well, but i dont really need intraday.
Once Im a pro (like YOU), then ill consider 4 screens and the latest and greatest. For now i just need to get myself into the game, slowly. Im pretty much just starting out.
Michael D - Can u offer any suggestions as to *good* and *expensive* EOD data?
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stevo said:
Market Profile is not popular among the trading public. Why? Because it forces you to use your head. It requires creativity to be able to master market profile.
To me.. I can never trade without market profile. If the trading public caught on with this, I would not make money.
I recommend Dalton's work. Alot of traders I know recommend the Cisco Futures study guide. I can provide you with a bunch of mp resources.. just pm me.
Dalton is also coming out with a new book sometime in Feb. I already pre-ordered it and cant wait to read it.
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nizar said:
If you want to really learn to trade, you need real-time data. A little history on how I learned to trade:
I had an office job for about 1 year. During the time, I used to watch a bar chart with nothing on it which was delayed 15 minutes since I could not install anything on the computer. I had to literally refresh my browser every 15 minutes in order to see the chart formation progress as the trading day passed. I started taking notes on support and resistance levels... and would anticipate which direction price would go in the next 15 minutes. This forced me to learn price action and a short term trading style. This went on for about 8 months. Of course after I quit, I stared at real-time data for quite some time including the tape.
What time frame are you planning to trade? If you are trying to trade as active as I am, you need to invest in yourself. This includes education, real-time data, trading platform, etc...
For those of you using Tradestation, a buddy of mine just released a new version of Market Profile. You can download it for free on my forum.
tech/a
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Soul
Do you hand chart your profiles?
Nizar.
I use Bohdi.I also get data for 7 bourses (markets) mainly for testing purposes I only trade AUST stock. All I have time for!.
Do you hand chart your profiles?
Nizar.
I use Bohdi.I also get data for 7 bourses (markets) mainly for testing purposes I only trade AUST stock. All I have time for!.
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tech/a said:
That would be insane. I know of people who still draw point and figure charts manually but not with MP. Right now I use a MP chart for Tradestation that my buddy developed.
tech/a
No Ordinary Duck
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Yeh that it would---be insane.
I just didnt know of a platform that could be adopted to software now in use or a stand alone---although I believe there is one.
If I had tradestation or knew of a stand alone platform then i would use it without question.
I just didnt know of a platform that could be adopted to software now in use or a stand alone---although I believe there is one.
If I had tradestation or knew of a stand alone platform then i would use it without question.
James - I dont have the time to get into this as intense as you unfortunately as im studying full time and work part time. EOD trading has its appeal for now in that i can spend ~2 hours per day. And even though its not as profitable as real-time trading i dont yet have the time nor the knowledge to take trading up seriously.
Im only considering ASX stocks at this stage. CFD Indices and Forex will come(years) later.
As tech/a's thread has shown, EOD trading can still be profitable, though obviously entries and exits wont be as good. I still need to read some books, paper trading, back testing, need to get my T.A upto a satisfactory level. Then hopefully in 3-6months i can start a bit of EOD trading.
You must understand im still an **AMATEUR**
Thanks for the advice
Im only considering ASX stocks at this stage. CFD Indices and Forex will come(years) later.
As tech/a's thread has shown, EOD trading can still be profitable, though obviously entries and exits wont be as good. I still need to read some books, paper trading, back testing, need to get my T.A upto a satisfactory level. Then hopefully in 3-6months i can start a bit of EOD trading.
You must understand im still an **AMATEUR**
Thanks for the advice
MichaelD
Not fooled by randomness
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I personally use Paritech and am happy with their data. Trading Game data also has a good reputation and has a very nifty feature which is of sorting stocks into industry groups - a must if you are a believer in RSC analysis.nizar said:
Expect to pay $300 - $400 per annum for your ASX data.
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Is anyone out there using MP to trade the SPI on the SFE?
If you are, could you share your experience with us?
In all the reading I've done so far it seems to be applied predominantly to the US market or FX. Would like to hear from people applying it to our (Aus) markets.
If you are, could you share your experience with us?
In all the reading I've done so far it seems to be applied predominantly to the US market or FX. Would like to hear from people applying it to our (Aus) markets.
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I recently saw a stock trader using MP to trade stocks like IBM. It stunned me since I never encountered stock traders using market profile.
tech/a
No Ordinary Duck
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"Market profile" is a trading methodology more commonly known as Steidlmayer.
Created by Peter Steidlmayer along with the "Liquidity Data Bank" for the Chicago Board of Trade.
Market Profile can be used to trade all liquid instruments. Along with Elliot Wave this is by far one of the most revolutionary forms of Technical Analysis in the market.
While I dont formally trade it I certainly benefit from its principles of accumulation and distribution. Well worth understanding.
Created by Peter Steidlmayer along with the "Liquidity Data Bank" for the Chicago Board of Trade.
Market Profile can be used to trade all liquid instruments. Along with Elliot Wave this is by far one of the most revolutionary forms of Technical Analysis in the market.
While I dont formally trade it I certainly benefit from its principles of accumulation and distribution. Well worth understanding.
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My core methodology revolves around market profile concepts. Definitely worth learning in my opinion.
tech/a
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soultrader said:
Soul
Some great info here.
http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f6/market-profile-trading-concepts-175.html
Do you use it on all the markets you trade?
Im also interested in whether you use it in conjunction with other analysis or simply stand alone?
If so then how you combine it.
Do you use M/P software if so what??
Some charts of profiles(Terminology etc).would be very helpful on your site as a visual representation speaks a 1000 words.
Great site.Congrats.
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tech/a said:
Hi tech,
Thank you for the compliments. I use MP strictly on index futurs as this is the only instrument I trade. Several other MP traders I know use it on currency futures, bonds, and other commodities.
My core methodology is based on S&R levels (mainly pivots), market internals, tape reading, and market profile concepts. I do not use MP alone. I started off initially as a pivot point trader and somehow incorporated MP into my methodology. MP is more of a concept to me to understand what the market is telling me. Most of my entries are done at pivots after understanding the overall picture.
I currently use a MP indicator for Tradestation which a member on the forum created. It saves me a ton of money. There is alot of charts on the forum, so you might want to take a look there. One interesting trader by the name of "ant" uses MP strictly and its interesting to see his ES analysis. Hope it helps.
>Apocalypto<
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SoulTrader,
I agree with you to a point as my favorite trader of all time is Mr Jesse Livermore, In his books he spoke about only reading the tape (last prices being in sync with the markets strength and weakness.
But I don't agree that all indicators are useless that is a strange generalization to make as they all work in certain market situations that they best suited for.
I have been using OBV with Volume and trend lines for a while now and i have never had the idea that it is use less.
It works for Futures, ASX, Indexes. I went long on crude 2 days before the 5% rise this week cuz OBV showed an entry.
Aslong as you know what indicator to use and when, then they work.
No use using a hammer to drill a hole!
I agree with you to a point as my favorite trader of all time is Mr Jesse Livermore, In his books he spoke about only reading the tape (last prices being in sync with the markets strength and weakness.
But I don't agree that all indicators are useless that is a strange generalization to make as they all work in certain market situations that they best suited for.
I have been using OBV with Volume and trend lines for a while now and i have never had the idea that it is use less.
It works for Futures, ASX, Indexes. I went long on crude 2 days before the 5% rise this week cuz OBV showed an entry.
Aslong as you know what indicator to use and when, then they work.
No use using a hammer to drill a hole!
I am a recent member of traders lab, and think the site is great. I think that soul trader makes some execellent points about learning to "read price Action" and all indicators are a derivcative of price. However, MP is just another " indicator." No better or worse than pivot points, RSI etc.
Having said that I use pivot points and price action and tape reading like soul trader , and like soul trader have been trading professional (for myself)for 15 or more years. I also use indicatirs I have developed myself that I use to confirm setups and entries and rules for exits.
I have seen at times pivot points be totally wrong but I have also seen MProfile be completely incorrect. The difference is if MP is incorrect is it the system or the persons interpretation of what brackets are significant.
I also remember Steidelmeyer saying that he was wrong, and market profile did not work.
The only thing I have learned that I believe is 100% correct is that if everyone is doing one thing in the markets I will make dam sure that I am not doing the same also.... that is the way to make a consistent living out of trading.
Having said that I use pivot points and price action and tape reading like soul trader , and like soul trader have been trading professional (for myself)for 15 or more years. I also use indicatirs I have developed myself that I use to confirm setups and entries and rules for exits.
I have seen at times pivot points be totally wrong but I have also seen MProfile be completely incorrect. The difference is if MP is incorrect is it the system or the persons interpretation of what brackets are significant.
I also remember Steidelmeyer saying that he was wrong, and market profile did not work.
The only thing I have learned that I believe is 100% correct is that if everyone is doing one thing in the markets I will make dam sure that I am not doing the same also.... that is the way to make a consistent living out of trading.
