What??? Ifocus, have you been on something? Sure he can talk across anything at all, but shouldn't what he says make sense, and shouldn't his remarks be clear in the meaning, and shouldn't they respond to questions asked rather than obfuscation on top of obfuscation?
If you look across the Labor front bench there is real talent that all speak on their own to the media unlike the opposition.
Like John Howard?
And out of all of them I wonder if many have run a business, or had a real job?
Like John Howard?
Agree mate, they do the talk to the media, but when it comes to voting in Parliament, they are tied to caucus.
Very few votes are allowed by Labor as a conscience vote.
I know for a fact that many Labor figures think Weather/Global warming is a load of cobblers, but they are not allowed say this, or vote as they feel they should.
If they exercise a vote against the party discipline they are out.
At least the Libs and Nats allow people to vote as they wish.
gg
Howard practised as a solicitor for 12 years. Despite all our generally low opinion of solicitors, it is a "real job", fulfilling an essential role in our (litigious) community.
Howard practised as a solicitor for 12 years. Despite all our generally low opinion of solicitors, it is a "real job", fulfilling an essential role in our (litigious) community.
Now that's just a pretty silly observation regarding all parties if it comes to that.And yet strange how they (the Libs and Nats) all vote as a block.its almost like they are following the party line, same as the left side of politics except that officially they don't have to, and yet the reality is...they do.
Therefore, it's pretty likely they are going to be happy to agree with most party decisions, into which they probably have some input anyway. (Well perhaps not in the Labor Party, but the Libs/Nats and the Greens do canvas opinion across their ranks).
And I distinctly recall some Libs crossing the floor to vote with Labor over, I think, refugees, a few years ago. Petro Georgio, Judy Moylan and someone else I think...Then just consider the esteemed Malcolm Turnbull who went against his own party when he was Leader to support Labor's ETS.
Practising as a "solicitor" is fairly sweeping. Was he practising in "Family Law", "Commercial Litigation", "Conveyancing" etc etc ????.
So Cynical, it just beats me that you continue to display a total lack of objectivity about the political scene. I don't recall your ever, ever making any criticism of your beloved Labor Party, however horrendous the stuff up.
Sarcasm is wasted on a forum.
Are you on meds Ifocus? - or more likely - have you recently gone off them? The way you speak of Rudd, I needed to remind myself that this was the same guy that got speared in August, in charge of the same bunch of clowns that almost got themselves voted out after one term!
As for the rest of your post, I don't think I can add anything to Julia's comments.
Duckman
That depends on how you would define 'smart'.
I didn't find him smart at all.
He lacked the capacity to build relationships which is absolutely fundamental in politics.
He lacked the ability to communicate with pretty much everyone, his own MP's and the general public alike.
He was all about rhetoric and noble sounding statements but totally lacked the ability to follow up in any practical sense.
That's a bit insulting, and unworthy of you. Why would you suggest your peers on ASF are any less discerning of spin than you are?
I'd actually suggest many of us are much less taken in by party spin than you are. Some of us retain objectivity about both parties, rather than a slavish adherence to just one.
Kevin Rudd, with his amazing capacity for double speak/incomprehensible responses to questions, would pretty much take the cake for spin imo.
But, no, on second thoughts, Wayne Swan way outdoes him on this.
What??? Ifocus, have you been on something? Sure he can talk across anything at all, but shouldn't what he says make sense, and shouldn't his remarks be clear in the meaning, and shouldn't they respond to questions asked rather than obfuscation on top of obfuscation?
Without dragging in politics? !!!! What on earth has happened to the measure of objectivity you've displayed in recent weeks?
They all are totally about politics, and Mr Rudd was the absolute epitome of this when PM.
No argument that he well and truly lost the plot, but I'd say his demise is a relief to Australia, certainly not a loss.
I have only to hear him waxing on about something in his role as Foreign Minister, to be reminded of how much better Julia Gillard is.
And that is in no way any endorsement of approval for Ms Gillard.
Just was a shame to see Stephen Smith ousted to make way for Rudd's return. Mr Smith was always responsive to questions, reasonable in his approach, and imo has been badly used by the Labor Party.
Surely you can't seriously believe Mr Rudd was deposed without any consultation with his front bench?
Hah, and that could change in a minute. It will only take a serious falling out with the Independents to completely turn the balance around.
I don't think the Independents at this stage have any interest in seeing this happen because it would make them look even sillier than they do now, but it's always a possibility, and as a result Ms Gillard will be even more reluctant to actually govern than she is now. So far she is coming across as a complete puppet leader.
The way you speak of Rudd, I needed to remind myself that this was the same guy that got speared in August, in charge of the same bunch of clowns that almost got themselves voted out after one term!Duckman
Two ways to look at that - one is that the Libs give more credence to conscience votes, the other is that the Libs policies can be unconscionable even to their own party members.And I distinctly recall some Libs crossing the floor to vote with Labor over, I think, refugees, a few years ago. Petro Georgio, Judy Moylan and someone else I think.
Then just consider the esteemed Malcolm Turnbull who went against his own party when he was Leader to support Labor's ETS.
You'd never find a Labor MP doing anything as individual, not ever.
Wow Julia just stunning...so the rank and file membership of the Labor party dosen't actually have any input into decision making and policy.
This from IFocus regarding the dismissal of Kevin Rudd.Yep dont think any of them knew or were included
Sarcasm is the inadequate refuge of those unable to articulate a rational, reasoned defence of their view.Sarcasm is wasted on a forum.
Ah, all is explained. Why did you give up coffee (with apologies for diverting the thread.)?LOL much more serious gave up coffee 2 weeks ago, thanks for the concern
Yes, of course, but if we're discussing Mr Rudd's capacity to be PM, his intellect (which is undoubted) is probably less important than his ability to get on with people and form good relationships.Intellect and capacity separate from personal traits and behavior
Sure. Good point.Became leader of the Labor party in opposition without being a member of a faction I don't think its been done before too often in any of the major parties.
I'm the first to acknowledge Mr Abbott's limitations, but I don't think it's reasonable to describe him as a simpleton. The bloke was a Rhodes scholar.You cannot do this being like a simpleton like Abbott
I honestly never heard him speak in anything other than the obfuscating political jargon.you are focusing on the political speak I talking about when actually speaking about serious issues.
That's not the point, IFocus. You know what I was talking about, i.e. that Stephen Smith got shafted so that Ms Gillard could keep her promise to Mr Rudd that (presumably) if he'd stop damaging the party, she would reward him with the position of his choice when they were re-elected.Actually Smith is needed far more in defense as John Faulkner
I can't quite understand what you're saying here.So far Gillard has actually handled the situation like an adult unlike Abbott and Gillard is a puppet of no one believe that believe Abbott spin.
Of course they do, but it's not unreasonable to point out that Coalition members have actually gone against the party line whereas I'm unaware of ANY instance where the same has happened from the Labor Party.In any case, sitting MPs (major parties anyway) vote along party lines in the vast majority of cases and the 0.1% of the time they don't really is splitting hairs.
Sarcasm is the inadequate refuge of those unable to articulate a rational, reasoned defence of their view.
Practising as a "solicitor" is fairly sweeping. Was he practising in "Family Law", "Commercial Litigation", "Conveyancing" etc etc ????.
Howard was educated at a public high school but did a law degree at the University of Sydney and was admitted as a solicitor of the New South Wales Supreme Court in July 1962. He worked for leading Sydney legal firm Stephen, Jacques and Stephen. (specialised in company law I believe)
Remember Howard's enduring and fabled connection to the electorate was his understanding of an aspirational blue-collar band that became known as the "Howard battlers".
A variation on that theme was Kevin Rudd's notion of "working families" that helped deliver him power in 2007. Government-schooled, but university-educated, ex-diplomat and former political staffer Rudd, that is. (not a solicitor)
Rudd studied an arts degree in Asian studies at the Australian National University, majoring in Chinese language and Chinese history. He worked for the Department of Foreign Affairs from 1981 and from 1988 he was Chief of Staff to the Queensland Labor Opposition Leader and later Premier, Wayne Goss. After the Goss government lost office in 1995, Rudd was hired as a Senior China Consultant by the accounting firm KPMG Australia. Elected to Parliament in 1998. (Guvmint spoon fed nancy boy)
Abbott was schooled at St Aloysius' College before completing his secondary school education at St Ignatius' College, Riverview in Sydney. He graduated with a Bachelor of Economics (BEc) and a Bachelor of Laws (LLB) from the University of Sydney where he resided at St John's College, and was president of the Student Representative Council. He then went on to attend the Queen's College, Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar and graduated with a Master of Arts (MA) in Politics and Philosophy.
With gratuitous thanks to Wikepedia and Google.
Far from a "simpleton" me thinks on the academic front.
Abbott was schooled at St Aloysius' College before completing his secondary school education at St Ignatius' College, Riverview in Sydney. He graduated with a Bachelor of Economics (BEc) and a Bachelor of Laws (LLB) from the University of Sydney where he resided at St John's College, and was president of the Student Representative Council. He then went on to attend the Queen's College, Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar and graduated with a Master of Arts (MA) in Politics and Philosophy.
With gratuitous thanks to Wikepedia and Google.
Far from a "simpleton" me thinks on the academic front.
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