Tony Abbott for PM

[Julia]

With treasury and especially Ken Henry potentially biased toward labor, I don't trust this report. It may be correct, but it is difficult to trust a potentially partisan treasury..

I just about choked today when I heard Rob Oakeshott declaring that Ken Henry and Treasury are 'apolitical'!

I wouldn't be surprised if the Coalition's costings are pretty hit and miss. They seemed to be very vague about where the money was coming from to fund their promises. "Savings from the PBS" was one option offered. Well, does that mean that some of the medicines that are not funded will not be in future, perhaps to meet some pork barrel promise for the election? They refused to clarify this.

But it's hardly surprising that Treasury are going to agree with Labor's election costings, given these costings were derived with Treasury's assistance in the first place!

It seems there could be quite a bit of room for 'interpretation' depending on what interest rates are used in the calculations etc.

Mr Swan, however, just couldn't wait to hit the airwaves declaring the opposition's evil dishonesty to be finally shown up for all to see.
He might be right, but I'd have no more faith in him ever than in Abbott & Co.

 

[noco]

I just about choked today when I heard Rob Oakeshott declaring that Ken Henry and Treasury are 'apolitical'!

I wouldn't be surprised if the Coalition's costings are pretty hit and miss. They seemed to be very vague about where the money was coming from to fund their promises. "Savings from the PBS" was one option offered. Well, does that mean that some of the medicines that are not funded will not be in future, perhaps to meet some pork barrel promise for the election? They refused to clarify this.


.

Julia, I understand savings can be made by allowing generic drugs. Lipitor was one that was mentioned.

 

[sails]

I think its OK for oppositions to get the numbers wrong as they don't have the same resources as governments.

This should be addressed so oppositions have access to treasury to help form policy...

IFocus posted this on another thread, but it's probably also applicable in the discussions here. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but it would appear that there is a greater degree of difficulty for oppositions with policy costings.

It's a pity that the independents don't have the same ability to recognise this degree of difficulty as IFocus has graciously shown.

To add to this degree of difficulty are the questions of political bias within Treasury (or certain key people) as has already been discussed.

 

[Timmy]

I'm not sure exactly how it works, but it would appear that there is a greater degree of difficulty for oppositions with policy costings.

Absolutely.
I am forever misplacing a few billion here, 10 billion there. :

 

[sails]

Absolutely.
I am forever misplacing a few billion here, 10 billion there. :

Actually those sort of amounts are only pocket money for labor - seems that billions mean absolutely nothing them. I don't know why all the fuss when labor's track record for waste is nothing short of spectacular...:

 

[nulla nulla]

At this point in time I am reminded of that famous quote by Paul Keating "How sweet it is". Maybe next time.

 

[Duckman#72]

At this point in time I am reminded of that famous quote by Paul Keating "How sweet it is". Maybe next time.

At this point in time I am reminded of that famous quote by Kevin Rudd "They've rat f***ed us". Maybe next time.

Duckman

 

[IFocus]

Hopefully Australia has been saved from Abbott becoming prime minister. Hopefully the Liberal party will finally move on from the left overs from Howards era but some how I think not.

Still how long before Malcolm moves............

 

[pixel]

Hopefully Australia has been saved from Abbott becoming prime minister. Hopefully the Liberal party will finally move on from the left overs from Howards era but some how I think not.

Still how long before Malcolm moves............

That's the $64 question: When will Malcolm have the numbers again?
If the Libs had drawn a line under the past and stood behind Turnbull, they'd be in government for a fortnight. But Tony's budgies proved not big enough to smuggle him into the Lodge.

 

[noco]

Hopefully Australia has been saved from Abbott becoming prime minister. Hopefully the Liberal party will finally move on from the left overs from Howards era but some how I think not.

Still how long before Malcolm moves............

How long before the back room boys move in on Joolya? Don't forget Kevvie o7 will be after revenge

Abbott should thank his lucky stars he lost this one.

 

[namrog]

This thread becomes irrelevant from today, tony will never become PM..

He almost got away with the biggest bluff of his career, but just failed to pull it off..face to face, the independents were able to see through him..

Labor, despite putting in a terrible performance over the last three years, and running a shocker of an election campaign are still in charge, while tony who during the election put in an almost faultless display, simple and safe as it was, still couldn't get up....

So there we have it, tony has had his shot at glory and failed......in the end, popular opinion was correct, he is unelectable.....!!, and thank Christ for that........

 

[wayneL]

So there we have it, tony has had his shot at glory and failed......in the end, popular opinion was correct, he is unelectable.....!!, and thank Christ for that........

Hahaha! Bias can be so amusing.

He might never be PM, but in fact the primary vote had the coalition in front.

On the other had, Labor came within an eyelash of losing after a single term.

Hardly unelectable.

He's not my ideal Liberal PM, but he nearly pulled it off comrade namrog.

 

[Julia]

Hahaha! Bias can be so amusing.

He might never be PM, but in fact the primary vote had the coalition in front.

On the other had, Labor came within an eyelash of losing after a single term.

Hardly unelectable.

He's not my ideal Liberal PM, but he nearly pulled it off comrade namrog.

Mr Abbott also won the 2PP. So, Namrog, he was effectively the people's choice, and it's only the vagaries of the decisions by the self-interested independents that have handed government to Ms Gillard.

So maybe try a little objectivity in understanding what has actually happened.

 

[Timmy]

Mr Abbott also won the 2PP.

In the interests of objectivity I would be interested in seeing your source for this piece of information?
The 2PP vote will not be calculated/finalised until all votes have been counted by the AEC (they haven't been yet).

 

[Mofra]

Actually those sort of amounts are only pocket money for labor - seems that billions mean absolutely nothing them. I don't know why all the fuss when labor's track record for waste is nothing short of spectacular...:

Labour's track record is not great - nowhere near levels of Howard-era wastage, but not great

 

[namrog]

Mr Abbott also won the 2PP. So, Namrog, he was effectively the people's choice, and it's only the vagaries of the decisions by the self-interested independents that have handed government to Ms Gillard.

So maybe try a little objectivity in understanding what has actually happened.

I understand exactly what has happened, read my post in whole above, so Julia, just in case you don't understand, I will use a sporting analogy.
Labor with Ms Gillard as captain has played the worse game imaginable, an absolute shocker,,,, whilst the Coalition with Abbott as captain has played an almost flawless game, and performed above all expectations, and yet couldn't achieve victory......

This thread is about Tony Abbott, Under Turnbull, or Costello, I suspect the coalition would have won with a small margin, and I might have even voted for them...but Abbott, no way.......

As for the 2PP,,, What 2 parties would they be ??

 

[Julia]

In the interests of objectivity I would be interested in seeing your source for this piece of information?
The 2PP vote will not be calculated/finalised until all votes have been counted by the AEC (they haven't been yet).

The following is copied from another thread where you have raised this same question.

OK, Timmy. Whatever you say. I was going by unchallenged comments by all involved politicians today, plus the most recent comments by Antony Green, the ABC's political analyst which were that it was most unlikely Labor would come out on top in the 2PP.

If Labor thought there was still some doubt about the outcome of the 2PP, why wouldn't they have challenged this amongst the multiple references to it by the Coalition today?

Still, obviously if the vote is not completely counted, you are justified in chastising me for inaccuracy.


Do you consider the final result reflects the 'will of the people'?
Do you believe the independents acted in the best interests of the nation, or in primarily self interest?
Because that's essentially what we're discussing.

And regarding objectivity, I'm not in favour of either of the current contenders running the country. Find them both woefully inadequate.
I just find the concept that Ms Gillard has "won" the election a bit peculiar.
She has rather been given the opportunity to form a minority government by a whisker, and due to the personal reasons of a couple of country independents who have their own reasons for wishing to smack the Coalition in the face.

This thread is about Tony Abbott, Under Turnbull, or Costello, I suspect the coalition would have won with a small margin, and I might have even voted for them...but Abbott, no way.......

With Costello, I'd say they'd have won with a huge margin. Not sure how you can say much about what would have happened with Turnbull. The Coalition's fortunes improved substantially under Tony Abbott, but this may have been simply a reflection of the electorate's disgust with Labor, justified that it was.

As for the 2PP,,, What 2 parties would they be ??

Is this a serious question?

 

[Mofra]

With Costello, I'd say they'd have won with a huge margin. Not sure how you can say much about what would have happened with Turnbull. The Coalition's fortunes improved substantially under Tony Abbott, but this may have been simply a reflection of the electorate's disgust with Labor, justified that it was.

I agree with this - Abbott is still poison to much of the electorate, widely regarded as a bully-misogynist beholden to the church (one of the few parliamentary members who still prays daily) which limits his appeal to the progressive element of society. Even his own party don't appear to trust him as a details man.

Costello is far more of an intellectual, appears more personable in interviews and carries no "headkicker" status from a former political life. Labor could have genetially merged Gillard and Rudd into a "Ruddard" and still lost the election by a substantial margin IMO.

 

[namrog]

I agree with this - Abbott is still poison to much of the electorate, widely regarded as a bully-misogynist beholden to the church (one of the few parliamentary members who still prays daily) which limits his appeal to the progressive element of society. Even his own party don't appear to trust him as a details man.

Costello is far more of an intellectual, appears more personable in interviews and carries no "headkicker" status from a former political life. Labor could have genetially merged Gillard and Rudd into a "Ruddard" and still lost the election by a substantial margin IMO.

Spot on Mofra, now that the election has been decided, the real Tony Abbott has reappeared, full of bile and bitterness especially towards the independents that supported labor...the kinder and gentler guy didn't last long...
Funny how not many on this forum is bagging Katter these days !!

Has there been any indication that Costello could be talked into having a go again, I could never understand why he was supposed to be disliked especially within his own party , little Johnny did the dirt on him I reckon, wheras Abbott got the little fellas blessing...

 

[Julia]

Spot on Mofra, now that the election has been decided, the real Tony Abbott has reappeared, full of bile and bitterness especially towards the independents that supported labor...the kinder and gentler guy didn't last long...
Funny how not many on this forum is bagging Katter these days !!

Perhaps because it has all been said. There are only so many ways you can describe someone as loopy.

Has there been any indication that Costello could be talked into having a go again, I could never understand why he was supposed to be disliked especially within his own party , little Johnny did the dirt on him I reckon, wheras Abbott got the little fellas blessing...

It seems almost entirely out of the question now that Costello will ever return, presumably because he felt so aggrieved at John Howard not honouring the retirement agreement they had made. Can't blame him at all, but his absence absolutely makes the party about half as electable as it would have been with his leadership, imo.

There has always been some sort of symbiotic relationship between John Howard and Tony Abbott, based on something presumably known just to the two of them. Perhaps the very conservative social/moral outlook which is common to both, though John Howard didn't allow this to become the sort of stumbling block it has represented with Mr Abbott.

I think it would be extraordinary if there were not some bitterness in the Lib camp. They came from way behind, ran a pretty reasonable campaign, won the primary vote (and likely the 2PP when the counting is concluded: OK Timmy? ) and missed out in the end because of the self interested decisions of the independents.

To say so is not to be displaying the colours of the passionate Liberal supporter, but just to be recording what happened.

Really no need for all the aggression that has been displayed on this and other threads in the last couple of days.